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phoenix
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   Posted 8/18/2007 10:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My wife saw a hormone specialist a couple of months ago and had all her levels checked, gh, dhea etc.  She has been on gh about 10 months and has been starting to feel more energy, less stress and better sleep.  But the doc put her on prog/estro a month ago and she started feeling "loopy" and really tired for the first couple of hours after awakening in the morning.  She is 46 and of course the menopause thing is going on too we believe.  Anyway, she is due to get her levels rechecked next week and of course it sounds like the dosage will be changed.  Here is the question.  This is the first month that her period is late.  about 6 days late as of today.  She has heard that some women starting menopause have this problem and some have even not had one for six months or so.  But I think it is too much of a coincidence that this is also the first month that she started the new hormones.  Just wondering if anyone has had similar experiences.  Thanks :-)
 
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generalhaney
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   Posted 8/19/2007 8:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Everything I've heard about women taking estrogen has been bad.  Very bad.  I am not a woman, but my wife is always talking about how bad it is.  She said something about getting the estrogen from horse urine...I just picked that up one day when she was talking about it...don't know what it means.

Why did the doctor think it was a good idea to supplement estrogen?  Bottom line...If your wife was fine before the estrogen, leave well enough alone.  It's no coincidence.  If she had normal periods, wouldn't that mean that her hormones were in check?  I don't know.  Hopefully a woman will respond to this.  All I've been told is that estrogen is like the brown acid.  Stay away from the brown acid  skull  .  I'm sure there are times when it's warranted, but from what I understand, doctors are passing it out like it's candy.

Progesterone on the other hand, is something my wife is looking into supplementing.  We're trying to figure out when the right time of month is to get the blood test.  We just got one back, but the levels are hard to understand cause they flucuate during the month.  She's fairly certain that her levels are low, though.  She's looking into some kind of bioidentical creams.  Now, I'm the one that's doing the talking here so I might have messed some things up.  My wife does not post here, so I'm trying to remember what she said...trouble is, I don't always listen. nono

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phoenix
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   Posted 8/19/2007 11:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes we totally agree with you that estrogen is bad, alone that is, but when combined with progesterone it is good. At least that is what we have read and heard from our hormone doctor. I'll pass on to her what you said. Thank you for your comments. It is appreciated.
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generalhaney
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   Posted 8/20/2007 12:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think the key is to have balance between the two.  I do know that the estrogen will cause weight gain and mood swings.  I don't think that will make your wife happy.  This comes from talking to women who I've had as clients and were on, or had been on hormone repacement therapy...I worked as a personal trainer a little while back.
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Cini
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   Posted 8/20/2007 1:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi,
Phoenix: I assume your wife's levels were checked before she started on HRT? Her levels were probably low to start with, otherwise it makes no sense that her Dr. would supplement. Her period can be late because she started HRT, but it's not necessarily a sign that HRT is the wrong thing for her to do. Hormonal shifts can easily delay the period.

Estrogen is not always bad news. Estrogen replacement without sufficient progesterone seems to be dangerous. Estrogen replacement is no different than GH replacement or testosterone replacement. Do you believe it's a good idea to supplement what we don't produce in adequate quantities any longer as we age? It's a personal decision and you can find numerous articles by experts for both sides, pro and con.

The important thing seems to be to get the balance between estradiol and progesterone right. That can take a while and may require several blood tests.

The next decision is if one wants to use bio-identical hormones or pre-fabs like Premarin (PREgnant MAre uRIN).  My personal opinion is that I would not touch Premarin et al with a ten foot pole. (Part of that has to do with the dismal conditions these poor mares live in and that thousands of Premarin foals are sent to slaughter every year.)

Unfortunately there are no big and extensive studies about bio-identicals. Those cannot be patented, big pharma does not make a fortune selling them and therefore there is no grant money for studies.

The difference between bio-identicals and regulas is not so much the source (urine vs plants e.g.) but the structure. The structure of bio-identicals is the same as human estrogen, progestrone etc. Regular HRT like Premarin has a few molecules added so they can patent it , this adding of molecules renders it non-identical because the product has a slightly different structure than the hormones it aims to replace.

The best day to test for progesterone is supposedly day 21 of the cycle. Progesterone levels should be highest on this day. Definitely test for progestrone during the last 14 days of the cycle.
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generalhaney
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   Posted 8/21/2007 10:00 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Cini,

When does the cycle start?  The first day of the period?  It's been hard to figure out when to test or when my wife's cycle begins because she doesn't get regular periods.

Oh...I guess I know what my wife was talking about when I heard her say horse urine. idea

Thanks.

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Cini
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   Posted 8/21/2007 4:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes, the cycle starts with the first day of bleeding. That's day one. Even if she is not entirely regular (few women have exact 28 day cycles) she probably has a normal range. Maybe anywhere between 29-35 days, maybe every other month the cycle is longer... If she knows that, she can still figure out her luteal phase to test progesterone (roughly the last half of the cycle with the peak day around 7 days before the start of the next cycle). Even if she can't fortell day seven before the next cycle she can count out from the start of the current cycle. If her cycles tend to be longer than 28 days she could test on days 22-25 e.g.

If she doesn't hit the peak day, it doesn't really matter too much, she'll still be in the correct phase.
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Mother Margaret
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   Posted 8/22/2007 11:48 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When I was well into menopause over 10 years ago, I thought I should take this type of thing and asked the doctor to let me have the hormone patch instead of taking the tablets.  No problem.  Well it was a big problem, because I started bleeding a lot, when I had had no periods for about 2 years. (Testing to see whether or not I was in menopause was a waste of time & money.)
 
I reported this to the gynecologist I was seeing (300 miles from where I live) and he said he didn't know too much about the patch ... just keep on doing it for awhile longer.  Nuts to that, I used my own head and stopped taking the patch, or doing anything at all.
 
Well next time for my visit (I used to go every 2 years - now I don't go at all), one of the fibroid tumors had enlarged and had to be surgically removed.  I firmly believe that had I not taken the hormones in 'the patch' this would not have happened.
 
Anyway, I want to share about a young woman age 36 who has fibroid tumors; one is seriously enlarged and she is bleeding a lot.  Her doctor wants to do a hysterectomy, but her blood counts are not good enough, they are aiming at Sept now.  In her case (I know the family history) & in mine I suspect that we both have effects from the teratogen chemical, 2-butoxyethanol, prior to our conception that would cause fibroid tumors in the first place.
 
So, could it be that something is off in her hormones, and that the enlarged tumor should be removed, but not necessarily a hysterectomy?
 
Another thing that came to mind ... is there something else causing a drop in blood counts beside the obvious?  Of course, they suspect that it is from excessive bleeding during periods, or this tumor in particular; however, a concern I have is that blood counts can also be down from the FATIGUE of CFIDS which should be suspect (autoimmune action on the red blood cells)  Doctors would find it if they were to LOOK at the red blood cells:  AIHA or IMHA.
 
If ongoing exposure to this chemical is part of the picture (& it could be because she is a dental assistant, and second hand exposure is very possible in a small exam room & having a patient who could be poisoned ... breathing out this chemical for all that time).
 
.... then check the kidneys which send a hormone to the bone marrow.  Kidneys play a role in forming red blood cells and making strong bones.  2-butoxyethanol targets the kidneys and liver and blood forming organs in particular.

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generalhaney
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   Posted 8/22/2007 2:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey Cini,
She isn't even that regular. She's gone month's without a period. In fact, she rarely got periods until she started taking gh a couple of months ago. Now, she's gotten them pretty much on time the last two months. We think the gh has something to do with it. Maybe the gh supplementation helped balance out her previously unbalanced hormones.
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funnyesq
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   Posted 8/30/2007 1:04 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

1.  Some women as they get to menopause (peri-menopause is the period before the cessation of menstruation) start to see their periods diminish.  Mine did.  For about 3 years I could go 2-3 months without a period.  My estrogen was up and down during this time.

2.  Peri-menopause is a time where fibroids tend to grow if a woman is "estrogen dominant."  Fibroids are not good.  Research "estrogen dominant" and you will see that fibroids feed on estrogen and hence why many people do not like to supplement with estrogen.  If they do they usually add progesterone so that they prevent an environment of "estrogen dominance."    If your wife had a history of large breasts and/or painful cramps, it is likely she was estrogen dominant.  Although levels go down in peri-menopause...the progesterone relative to the estrogen goes does faster making a woman potentially MORE likely to be estrogen dominant because of the RATIOs. 

3.  The DHEA supplementation may have added what hormones she needed....it will add to progesterone and possibly estrogen from what I am reading. 

4.  What you are describing sounds like too much progesterone from what I've read.  But if you eliminate the progesterone, I'd eliminate the added estrogen which leaves her back to where she started.

 

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demigoddess
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   Posted 8/31/2007 11:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree that bio-identical hormone replacement therapy is a wonderful idea, while pharmaceutical hormones (premarin, etc) are a bad one. If her hormones are in a cream compounded by a good compounding pharmacy, rubbed into the skin, they would be bio-identicals. I have been using them myself for four years. In fact, at one time when I was lucky enough to afford humatrope and then added armour thyroid and bioidentical progesterone cream to my regime, I got so healthy I got pregnant at 43, with a man whose sperm count was too low to have children. I'm not saying children are a goal for everyone, just the health-fertility connection. In fact now that I have two children I couldn't dream about using humatrope and am again looking for a much less expensive GH. But I have not stopped my other hormone replacement creams, and I added testosterone and estrogen over the years as they were needed. Suzanne Somer's book Ageless is a really good resource on this. I recommend it, even though she's not a great writing talent.
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