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hermes
Registered Member
     
Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 9
| Posted 2/25/2007 1:36 PM (GMT -5) |   |
"Stemcelex" is a new hair-growth product that claims stem cell treatment for baldness: http://stemcelex.com
and this is link to its patent that I have already posted as a seperate topic in lef forum:
and they claim as well that in the test group:
"restoration of original hair colour was observed within four to six weeks in almost all subjects whose hair was silver white or grey, including subjects over 60 years of age."
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 2/25/2007 1:46 PM (GMT -5) | | I join flowergirl's query about the dilemma between GH3 (banned in the US) and its soft form DMAE-H3. Would the real thing not be more advisable and if so, by which online supplier?
I keep on warning against melatonin. In a UK study (dated 1980 and available in 'journal of dernatology" if I remember correctly), melatonin is proved to rather inhibit than enhance melanin production in the hair follicle. I personally tried topical melatonin (3/1000) for a 3 month period last year and have observed an acceleration of my graying process. | | Back to Top | | |
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JRL
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 6
| Posted 2/26/2007 2:08 PM (GMT -5) | | Zorba,
Thanks a lot for the reply. I'm going to try mixing up the topical and start applying it. I'll let you all know how it goes. | | Back to Top | | |
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flowergirl
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 54
| Posted 2/26/2007 6:07 PM (GMT -5) | | "Don't know why this would be true...here is something to the contrary.
http://www.grouppekurosawa.com/blog/2005/03/regrow-hair-naturally-while-changing.htm "
this aritcle was written 2 years ago. he said he was gonna try it on his beard and post the results. did he ever post the results??
as i'm in the UK at the moment, i cant get hold of any melatonin in capsule form and as it seemed to have no positive efects on brm, i'm happy to leave it out for now. i have 3 bottles of DMAE H3. when i run out of these, i'll move onto the GH3 and see which one is more powerful. | | Back to Top | | |
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 2/27/2007 5:32 PM (GMT -5) | | I keep on refering to
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v74/n1/abs/5616101a.html
I read thru the entire study which I downloaded from The Journal of Dermatology's site. I found it quite serious and convincing though dating 1980 and dealing only with in vitro samples having retained their ability to create melanin. This only adds to my personal conclusion about topical melatonin which I tried with no positive result, at best. If you tried melatonin, Zorba, i can only imagine that it did not counteract the positive effect of the other ingredients you 've been using and which I advise all to primarily focus on, given the good and enjoyable results you seem to encounter...unless you can document the specific effects ot topical melatonin on its own, which I think is not the case (?). Incidentally, you don't seem to advise real GH3 rather than DMAE-H3. Can you tell us more about this?
Thank you. | | Back to Top | | |
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zorba990
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 710
| Posted 2/28/2007 10:57 AM (GMT -5) | |
brm said...I keep on refering to http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v74/n1/abs/5616101a.html I read thru the entire study which I downloaded from The Journal of Dermatology's site. I found it quite serious and convincing though dating 1980 and dealing only with in vitro samples having retained their ability to create melanin. This only adds to my personal conclusion about topical melatonin which I tried with no positive result, at best. If you tried melatonin, Zorba, i can only imagine that it did not counteract the positive effect of the other ingredients you 've been using and which I advise all to primarily focus on, given the good and enjoyable results you seem to encounter...unless you can document the specific effects ot topical melatonin on its own, which I think is not the case (?). Incidentally, you don't seem to advise real GH3 rather than DMAE-H3. Can you tell us more about this? Thank you. I don't find the study all that noteworthy as it was done with hair in a test tube. It is interesting though. Melatonin has, perhaps, a role in degrading melanin. Perhaps one that is useful to avoid hyperpigmentation or melanoma.
I guess someone will just have to do a test on live animals painting it on their coats - meanwhile I'm not going to stop using it. I have never used GH3 and have
no experience with it. I'm using DMAE-H3 for the paba and DMAE effects. BTW
DMAE also has pigment removal effects - in fact many people use it for just that purpose (to get rid of age spots). I put in DMAE-H3 based on many reports that people with vitiligo were using it with success. Also, my experience with using it orally is that, like the complete Chinese herbal forumula, I could easily see that it was causing hair darkening. Net effect is what I am looking for and DMAE-H3, ionic copper, and Chinese herbals all cause hair darkening when taken orally.
I imagine that resveratrol might be interesting to add, but so far I have avoided
it and green tea since they both might have strong staining effects.
Melatonin reduces cortisol and acts as an a powerful antioxidant. Psoralens used to treat vitiligo result in increased melatonin levels. It may be that reducing oxidation affects pigmentation in the short run because the pigmentation reaction requires an oxidative pathway. So, again, a person needs to individualize their forumla for their biochemistry. And this will likely change over time.
Sovetre E, Salvati E, Belugou JL
5-Methoxypsolaren increases the plasma melatonin levels in humans.
J Invest Dermatol 1987;89:152-5
But there is a theory that melatonin might actually be causal in vitiligo. I don't find it very compelling though, because it incorrectly assumes melatonin is oxidative which is incorrect. There are lots of theories.
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dLaertios
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119
| Posted 3/1/2007 1:28 PM (GMT -5) | | Possible contribution of mercury dental fillings to grey hair.
http://www.doewatch.com/gws.html
The reduction of the clearance of toxic metals due to GSH is easily observed in the population as it plays a direct role in why hair turns gray. Grey hair is caused principally by rising levels of Hg or mercury in the body being incorporated into the hair follicles causing the loss of pigment from the higher cellular ROS problems. Grey hair has higher levels of mercury in it than pigmented hair strands and the effect helps to pull some mercury from tissues. Grey hair for many people begins in areas of the chin and face, where the highest concentrations of mercury tend to accumulate in tissues from mercury dental fillings. With increasing age the gray hair can affect most of the head's hair. This is a common example of the effects of reduced GSH and SOD enzymes that happens with age and rise of internal retention of PCB, pesticides, HF, and Hg that act to damage GSH and SOD production. | | Back to Top | | |
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drjrgates
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 2
| Posted 3/2/2007 10:40 AM (GMT -5) | | Greetings,
It's been quite some since the Grey Hair issue has been discussed. Has anyone discovered further solutions to this problem? Also...whatever happend to "Amber" to claimed to have patented an inexpensive product that "worked"?
Thanks | | Back to Top | | |
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 3/5/2007 11:03 AM (GMT -5) | | Hello guy.
To date, dLaertios and Zorba are the only trustworthy "guideline resources" we're offered. Check out their posts. (Amber must be a full head of grey hair by now). | | Back to Top | | |
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 3/8/2007 10:51 AM (GMT -5) | | A question that has never really been discussed here:
Does a hair become grey from the tip or from the root?
Well, obviously, we tend to answer "from the root". Is this that obvious? I've read some opinions contrary to it and it seems that both theories circulate. We could imagine indeed that the little melanin produced is projected from the root to the stem (the dead cells part) until the time when not enough melanin is produced anylonger to permit a uniform coating up to the tip. Why am I discussing this point? For a good reason: I have collected two hairs in the past days that are pigmented at the root and white at the tip. Being of a leery nature and not quick to hearten myself at the first sign, I am just wondering if those strands are getting black or white... | | Back to Top | | |
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 3/9/2007 10:27 AM (GMT -5) | | | I have been taking ho shou wouh (whose brand name is fo ti) for the past 8 months with no result. I have recently increased my dosage though. The chinese girl that sells me the stuff told me that no improvement could be expected before the year mark since the newly pigmented hair needs the white one to be naturally shed first. Which I doubt a lot... Since the greying process doesn't imply shedding, why would repigmentation? But that speech binds me as a customer for the coming year or so... | | Back to Top | | |
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AussieDavid
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 3/9/2007 10:35 AM (GMT -5) | |
8th March 2007
Today I started applying a topical copper solution to my grey hair.
My before pics are here:
http://www.fotothing.com/AussieDavid/
I will post more pics if/when I notice any changes.
I had the solution made by a compounding chemist.
I have a 100ml bottle which has the following ingredients:
20mg copper
DMAE H3
PABA
Vitamin E
Lavender
Propylene Glycol
The lavender makes it smell good, and the solution is easy to apply. I am going to apply morning and evening and gently rub it in.
It is difficult to source ionic copper here in Australia, so we ended up using 10 copper caps from my Twinlab bottle (10 caps = 20mg copper).
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00119.html
I am not sure if this copper will work. Also, the caps have a green dye in them, so my solution is also green, but it doesn't make my scalp or hair green when I apply it. I would really appreciate anyone passing on details of their source of ionic copper. I have googled and found this product:
http://www.essense-of-life.com/info/copper.htm
The solution I have started using is really compromise until I can source some good ionic copper. Unfortunately here in Australia we just don't have access to the same products that are available in the USA. I travel to LA frequently, so if anyone can give me details of a reliable source, I will order some and collect it in LA. As far as the PABA goes, we simply used some of the Twinlab PABA caps that I purchased from LEF.
The DMAE H3 was purchased from here:
http://www.vitaminexpress.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/19/products_id/285
There are many suppliers out there, but these guys had the most reasonable postage costs to Australia.
My current vitamin/supplement regime is as follows:
LEF Mix Tabs (9/day, has 1mg of copper)
He Shou Wu (800 mg/day - The brand is 'ActiveHerb - Hairvive'. I don't think this is the best brand. Does anyone have a good 'Fo-Ti' supplier?)
SODzyme with Glysodin (LEF)
Liquid Cats Claw (5 ml/day)
Mitochondrial Energy Optomizer (LEF)
Zinc Picolinate (Only just recently started zinc supplementation again)
CoQ10 (LEF)
Grapeseed Extract with Resveratrol (LEF)
Advance Natural Prostate Formula (LEF)
Chrysin 500mg (Compounding Chemist)
Super EPA/DHA (LEF)
1/2 Proscar/day (for DHT suppression)
DMAE H3 (1ml/day)
Trans-d-tropin
Up until a few weeks ago, I was also taking tyrosine. I have stopped because I believe it was giving me freckles. I was also taking 'Super Miraforte', but have also stopped that.
I will update the forum if I have any success with the topical solution.
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 3/9/2007 12:20 PM (GMT -5) | | Hello Aussiedavid. Good to hear from you again as it seems you were actively involved in some new experiment. Your photos are a nice job. In fact, you don't really look grey but rather a pale blond head of hair. As to copper, Zorba advocates ionic copper where others on other hair related sites rather advise colloidal copper or copper peptides. I didn't want to take useless risks and opted out for folligen. I apply 2ml of it everyday before bedtime and will keep you all posted as to any progress. about he shou wou, I get mine in its raw form, ground by the local chinese girl that sells it in Paris. Maybe you can find such a store in Sydney or Melbourne or in any big city your job will fly you to. But so far, so bad, I mean, no result.
Like you, I have noticed 2 strands grey at the tip and dark at the base. But yesterday night, I found as well the opposite case: 2 other strands grey at the root and dark at the tip. So, whatever the greying mechanism is, 2 of these 4 strands (whichever group) must be going under a repigmentation process... Wishful thinking isn't it... | | Back to Top | | |
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dLaertios
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119
| Posted 3/9/2007 2:37 PM (GMT -5) | | Good luck to all of you.
Aussie nice job with your photos.
Colloidal copper + Paba will work I think the same as Zorba described. I remember his phrase :" I see less and less grey hair". The same goes with me.
My only wish is this method could work faster but at least we have something in our hands.
The cost is minimal:
90 tablets of 550mg Paba (3 month supply) 21 euros and to make a device for colloidal I payed about maybe 35 euros I don't really remember. You need an ac to dc converter, a machine that makes bubbles for aquarium, and copper electrodes (I took a copper stick with 1 cm diameter - 15 euros- and made the electrodes of it).
I don't believe that you need something else for topical.
If I had to experiment with something else would be that patent with copper and sulphur. I gave a link to my previous posts. It says that has a dye effect but maybe it works faster than Paba and maybe copper + Paba has a dye effect too. Check that post again.
Don't be lazy try that method and you will see the difference in less than a month!!!
Amazing is't it?
And all these thanks to pioneer Zorba and his kindness to share it.
Also I want to add that I have still a head full of grey hair and I dye it (more stress to it and maybe delays the process of reversal especially as I dye it every week). But as I look between dyes at my roots many hairs have reversed I think more than 10% of pure white hairs - not grey- reversed.
At first I was very optimist I believed that I would have a full reversal in about 3 months but the process isn't so fast.
I hope I will be able to achieve a full reversal too and not the process to stop and no more hairs to reverse.
Try to experiment too and not just start to ask how because I also experiment with the method and also I apply it for only one and a half month.
Make your colloidal after you have resolve a tablet of Paba in there and you need either a bubble machine for aquarium or maybe a little mixer so as the Paba will be able to resolve in the water.
My current supplement regimen:
I added Pantothenic acid 550mg 3 days ago so
15 mg beta carotene in morning
super B+C and pantothenic acid 550mg after lunch
1000iu E after dinner.
P.S.
I know that some of you started to try your own topicals it would be nice to give feedback. | | Back to Top | | |
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august
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 172
| Posted 3/9/2007 7:03 PM (GMT -5) | | | Yes, my problem with gray hair is not the color (easily covered with dye) but the texture. Wirey, thin, stick straight up in the air, etc. If something could prevent gray hair from losing it's quality I might even enjoy the white. | | Back to Top | | |
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 3/9/2007 7:06 PM (GMT -5) | | Hi dlaertios. I am completely unable to build this machine you're talking about. Can you share a photo of this outfit you've made? How can you be sure that the copper solution you get is proper colloidal copper? How do you get rid of filling particles that melt from the paba tablets you throw in?
Gotsomegray, if this route is correct (shedding needed), how come I found mixed colored strands, some grey and dark and others dark and grey from root to tip? It seems to be the proof that the hair doesn't need to be shed to get pigmented again?... | | Back to Top | | |
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flowergirl
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 54
| Posted 3/9/2007 8:39 PM (GMT -5) | | thats great aussie. thanks for sharing. im currently in th UK and I got my ionic copper from a great company here that my kinesiologist uses, and is also stocked at the nutricentre here, the company is called metabolics. i dont know if they have a website, but their number is tel: +44 1380 812799. they may have a sister company in australia as i think thorne does, so its worth a try!
im currently applying the twinlab dmae - h3 and ionic copper and vit D3 every nite, for the past i think 3 weeks.
i used the shen min tablets for about 5/6 mths last year but saw no change - they have he shu wu in them.
when i first noticed grey i took pure he shu wu tonic from the herbal suppliers and i saw reversal - as in dark roots on the white hairs, but i found the herb too strong for me and i stopped. zorba said its best to use the chinese formula rahter than just the he shu wu on its own. anyone got anything to say on this? | | Back to Top | | |
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 3/11/2007 8:10 PM (GMT -5) | | Hi Flowergal.
The real chinese stuff IS he shou wou just as you took last year. In my case, the chinese girl mixes it with other chinese ingredients plus some black sesame. Under what form did you have and take he shou wouh? Leaves or ground leaves , i.e powder? How do you mean "too strong"? made you jumpy or something, right? Where did you get it from? What dose did you take?
How much twinlab dmaeH3 and ionic copper do you apply daily?
Thanks. | | Back to Top | | |
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dLaertios
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119
| Posted 3/11/2007 8:14 PM (GMT -5) | | Hi,
http://www.bagelhole.org/?page=141 I made the device according to that. Google for colloidal silver or copper and you will find a lot of devices and instructions to make it.
Also I cut Paba tablets and use the content only. LOL.
Flowergirl, did you see any difference? I know that 3 weeks is nothing but the method works fast.
Anyone else that tried it?
Also I have asked Zorba and before after how many months of daily use he had a full reversal.
At first I was very optimistic but now I believe that maybe one or two years are needed. | | Back to Top | | |
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 3/11/2007 8:25 PM (GMT -5) | | | | |
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