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jcwst1
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 32

Posted 3/11/2007 8:28 PM (GMT -5)

Hello all,

I see all the posts on gray hair, and I'm posting what I know from an entirely different point of view, which is, alternative medicine. I read on Dr. walt Stoll's forum (see askwaltstollmd.com, look in the forums, under hair color loss or search on gray hair), that gray hair is caused mostly by a magnesium deficiency (believeable, since 95% of Americans are deficient in it); and, I have been taking a full dose of Mg for about 2 years, and my whitish gray hair is now a very light camel (note: take an absorbable form of Mg such as mg glycincate; less absorbable forms will have a "milk of magnesia" effect; mg citrate is cheaper but somewhat less absorbable). However, I have not been taking it for the purposes of gray hair -- I have been taking it because I have an adrenal disorder, and mg is very good for recovering adrenals.

It would be interesting to see if this continues, but I am about to ruin the experiment, by taking a small daily dose of HGH (see other forums), which should definitely increase hair color. But my contribution is this -- you must take a daily full dose of magnesium (one way or another), relying on HGH alone is not enough.

Jim

AussieDavid
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 181

Posted 3/12/2007 10:33 AM (GMT -5)

brm said...
So, this is the site you got your DMAE from, Aussie David.
1°) I understand that this new topical you have has been made with this, all right. But, do you know (or anyone here) why they warn against any topical use?
2°) Reading your regimen, I understand as well you drink 1 ml of it daily, correct? How long have you been doing so?

Thank you AD.

The label says: 'Not intended for topical use - Use only as directed.'

I didn't take that as meaning it's dangerous for topical use. I do not have any pharmaceutical knowledge so I don't know why they put this on the label. My chemist has successfully mixed it in to the copper solution, and I am happy to give it a go. Zorba990 is having success with it and doesn't report any adverse side-effects.

I have been taking DMAE H3 orally since August 2006. I have no noticeable reversal of grey hair.

flowergirl
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 54

Posted 3/12/2007 4:12 PM (GMT -5)

The real chinese stuff IS he shou wou just as you took last year. In my case, the chinese girl mixes it with other chinese ingredients plus some black sesame. Under what form did you have and take he shou wouh? Leaves or ground leaves , i.e powder? How do you mean "too strong"? made you jumpy or something, right? Where did you get it from? What dose did you take?
How much twinlab dmaeH3 and ionic copper do you apply daily?
Thanks.

i got it from a herbal company that sells direct to practitioners, but i forgot their name. it came in a huge tub in liquid form. i took way too much, i was drinkin it down (lol), and of course i impacted my liver! but i was also taking too many vitamins on an empty stomach too. thats why i switched to the shen min, but saw no dfference at all with that. the he shu wu defnitely worked, but i'd have to go back to experimenting with the dosages again. i tried to rememba the companys name but i cant find any of the receipts.

im using a whole dropper full of dmae-h3 (1 ml)
4 drops of vit b3
capful of ionic copper

which is what zorba recommended. im not sure if theres been any reversal yet. im pretty impatient so unless theres a huge difference i dont really see it. but am gonna keep on with it, cos now its an easy routine to stick with. im not taking any dmae-h3 orally as i cant stand the smell!

one thing i am doing everyday is im visualizing my hair follicle getting re-ignited with full color and my hair growing back in its rich full original color!! cant but help...!

zorba990
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 710

Posted 3/12/2007 6:25 PM (GMT -5)

flowergirl said...
The real chinese stuff IS he shou wou just as you took last year. In my case, the chinese girl mixes it with other chinese ingredients plus some black sesame. Under what form did you have and take he shou wouh? Leaves or ground leaves , i.e powder? How do you mean "too strong"? made you jumpy or something, right? Where did you get it from? What dose did you take?
How much twinlab dmaeH3 and ionic copper do you apply daily?
Thanks.

i got it from a herbal company that sells direct to practitioners, but i forgot their name. it came in a huge tub in liquid form. i took way too much, i was drinkin it down (lol), and of course i impacted my liver! but i was also taking too many vitamins on an empty stomach too. thats why i switched to the shen min, but saw no dfference at all with that. the he shu wu defnitely worked, but i'd have to go back to experimenting with the dosages again. i tried to rememba the companys name but i cant find any of the receipts.

im using a whole dropper full of dmae-h3 (1 ml)
4 drops of vit b3
capful of ionic copper

which is what zorba recommended. im not sure if theres been any reversal yet. im pretty impatient so unless theres a huge difference i dont really see it. but am gonna keep on with it, cos now its an easy routine to stick with. im not taking any dmae-h3 orally as i cant stand the smell!

one thing i am doing everyday is im visualizing my hair follicle getting re-ignited with full color and my hair growing back in its rich full original color!! cant but help...!

The real chinese herbal formula for graying hair is not just he shou wu. I never reccomended B3. Vitamin D would be good to add in emulsified form.

zorba990
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 710

Posted 3/12/2007 6:29 PM (GMT -5)

jcwst1 said...

Hello all,

Jim

Magnesium can be absorbed topically by bathing in Epsom Salts For those that are very deficiencient you can dump 2-4 pounds in a bath at a time. (topically only)

http://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/articles/Report_on_Absorption_of_magnesium_sulfate.pdf

jcwst1
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 32

Posted 3/13/2007 5:29 PM (GMT -5)

>Magnesium can be absorbed topically by bathing in Epsom Salts

That is an interesting study (if you really want to see an interesting use of Epsom salts, do a search on liver cleanse using Epson salts & olive oil, but I digress), but the effects would be short lived. It's easy to take a daily magnesium supplement; I take "Doctor's Best" High Absorption Magnesium, which contains mg glycinate; I used to take Mg citrate (from vitamin world), which is cheaper but less absorbable.

Aside from the gray hair issue, I recent heard (source Mercola.com) that Fish Oil and Magnesium are the two supplements a person should take, if they take nothing else. This agrees with what I've read elsewhere, including in regards to gray hair, so I advocate magnesium supplementation.

zorba990
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 710

Posted 3/13/2007 6:28 PM (GMT -5)

jcwst1 said...
>Magnesium can be absorbed topically by bathing in Epsom Salts

For some reason once you get below a certain level of magnesium in the body it becomes more difficult to absorb it. Taking epson salt baths can get you over the hump so to speak. I also take magnesium supplements since I am a heavy exerciser and there is ample evidence that more magnesium is used up doing that.

greyboy
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 25

Posted 3/14/2007 10:07 AM (GMT -5)

i agree about the magnesium. I ws told by a chemist i was really low in magnesium and since supplementing for 2-3 months my hair is darker and healthier but no reversal yet. My gp also told me magnesium would halt my greying. I agree that any supplement program should include magnesium as it helps to absorb other vitamins such as b12. if one was to research the benefits of magnesium they would see that it will have a very beneficial effect.

RED- No Source Talk # 2
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 1125

Posted 3/16/2007 10:10 AM (GMT -5)

For the guy who wrote about the stop the gray hair. I'm young 33 don't have much gray hair except on the sides. You can't stop it. Women like it. They find it distinguishing. I'm good looking so if my hair was completely grey or just go out and or buy "Just for men" - RRM You wrote:

HI EVERYONE:

HOW DOES ONE REVERSE THE GROWTH OF GREY HAIR? I AM A 39 YR. OLD MALE. I EXERCISE 4 TO 5 TIMES A WEEK (MOSTLY BODYBUILDING), I DON'T SMOKE AND DRINK ONLY SOCIALLY. I WATCH MY DIET REGULARLY AS I LIKE TO STAY IN GOOD PHYSICAL SHAPE. I HAVE A FULL HEAD OF DARK HAIR AND I WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. BUT I HAVE A SMALL GROUP OF GREYS SHOWING UP ON THE FRONT RIGHT PART OF MY HEAD. I ALSO HAVE A SMALL GOATEE WICH IS NOW LOOKING SALT & PEPPER. ARE THERE ANY FOODS WHICH WOULD REVERSE THIS PROCESS, OR STOP IT BEFORE IT GETS WORSE?

StarGazer
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 118

Posted 3/19/2007 9:33 AM (GMT -5)

From a 1944 book -

Inositol (at least 2000 mg) was recommended for grey hair.

Also, it said "If you are serious about wanting your hair to change back to its natural color, drink a quart of yogurt daily and have a teaspoon of brewers' yeast before each meal."

The author also said "I personally believe iodine can be of value in hair difficulties."

Anyone try any of these?
Inositol, quart of yogurt, brewers' yeast, iodine?

gotsomegray
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 72

Posted 3/19/2007 10:36 AM (GMT -5)

brm said...
Hi dlaertios. I am completely unable to build this machine you're talking about. Can you share a photo of this outfit you've made? How can you be sure that the copper solution you get is proper colloidal copper? How do you get rid of filling particles that melt from the paba tablets you throw in?
Gotsomegray, if this route is correct (shedding needed), how come I found mixed colored strands, some grey and dark and others dark and grey from root to tip? It seems to be the proof that the hair doesn't need to be shed to get pigmented again?...

brm,

I was just speculating and forgot that you had found strands that had repigmented. That is better news in my opinion as it would take less time to recolor that way. I am just beginning to wonder if a lot of these "cures" for gray hair are counting on shedding of the gray hair.

brm
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154

Posted 3/20/2007 5:16 PM (GMT -5)

Hi gotsomegray (but until we've found any "cure", you should go in for "gotmoregray")

While looking close at my hair yesterday, I could assess that no overall improvement was on. I found 2 more strands white at the root and dark at the tip, indicating the greying process must rather be this one. But I found a new species: white at the root, pigmented over 1/2 inch and white again at the tip... What the heck is this? Could repigmentation trigger and hold up intermittently?...
One more point: daily use of folligen (2ml) gives white strands a pale greenish tint

even after washing. Could (and may!) this process get enhanced over time?:

Niko
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2001
Total Posts : 143

Posted 3/26/2007 10:53 AM (GMT -5)

The following study showed an interesting effect of oral Tribulus extract, its apparent ability to restore hair pigmentation in rats.

Nan Fang Yi Ke Da Xue Xue Bao. 2006 Dec;26(12):1777-9.

Department of Traditional Chinese Medicine, Southern Medical University, Guangzhou 510515, China.

Yang L, Lu JW, An J, Jiang X.

"OBJECTIVE: To observe the effect of Tribulus terrestris extract on melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH) expression in C57BL/6J mouse hair follicles, and investigate the role of Tribulus terrestris extract in activation, proliferation, epidermal migration of dormant hair follicle melanocytes.

CONCLUSION: The aqueous extract of Tribulus terrestris can significantly increase MSH expression in the hair follicle melanocytes by activating tyrosinase activity and promoting melanocyte proliferation, melanine synthesis, and epidermal migration of dormant melanocytes."

PMID: 17259119

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 3/26/2007 10:54 AM (GMT -5)

Brm,
How old are you and how much of your hair is grey (percentage)? Also how many amalgam dental fillings do you have? I have a lot, maybe 20, and I intend to replace them with nontoxic white ones. Mercury is very toxic and depletes your body's zinc and copper.

After all that research I believe that copper is the main ingredient that is responsible for our hair color. You need to protect it and also to help your body to absorb it (I think with vitamin C, PABA, pantothenic and some protein, minerals and amino acids).
I think that until I change all the amalgam fillings my body will have problem with all that mercury toxicity and won't be able to make a full reversal to hair color.

As far as the topical is concerned, try to use colloidal copper (or better, ionic) and PABA, drink a little, maybe 2 teaspoons and the rest try to massage it to your scalp. Massage vigorously to your side hair (as it is stronger and you are not afraid if they fall) for 5 minutes to help your follicles to absorb it. Good luck.

kench
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 16

Posted 3/27/2007 10:01 AM (GMT -5)

This has been a great, long thread, with dedicated investigators (amateur) who are determined to see if a few anecdotal trial and observe experiments can uncover what should be a straight-forward aging mechanism.

Since we have easy access to our skin and melanocytes through topical treatments, and we can farily accurately gauge the results, this should be an ideal test bed for dedicated laymen, and is a model that LEF should have picked up on long ago, for making use of smart life-extenders.

brm
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154

Posted 3/27/2007 12:02 PM (GMT -5)

dLaertios said...
Brm,
How old are you and how much of your hair is grey (percentage)? Also how many amalgam dental fillings do you have? I have a lot, maybe 20, and I intend to replace them with nontoxic white ones. Mercury is very toxic and depletes your body's zinc and copper.

After all that research I believe that copper is the main ingredient that is responsible for our hair color. You need to protect it and also to help your body to absorb it (I think with vitamin C, PABA, pantothenic and some protein, minerals and amino acids).
I think that until I change all the amalgam fillings my body will have problem with all that mercury toxicity and won't be able to make a full reversal to hair color.

As far as the topical is concerned, try to use colloidal copper (or better, ionic) and PABA, drink a little, maybe 2 teaspoons and the rest try to massage it to your scalp. Massage vigorously to your side hair (as it is stronger and you are not afraid if they fall) for 5 minutes to help your follicles to absorb it. Good luck.

Hi dlaertios.

I will turn 43 next month. The overall percentage of my grey hair is around 2 -5%, but in the front area, this percentage is rather around 10 - 20%, which means I am now at great lengths to hide my grey. I must cut each strand short and rely upon the longer dark ones to make this possible. I have many dental fillings as well, though 13 of my 31 teeth are now protheses whose frame are metallic but not made of mercury. I don't plan to replace the existing fillings since many of the affected teeth might just collapse from the very removing of the filling itself. I supplement both zinc and copper orally. I also take vit C (only 100 mg daily since it plays a little havoc on my stomach), PABA (500 mg) and a complete formulation I 've found on the internet but think useless to give away here until proof to its efficiency.

I'll talk this filling problem up again with my new dentist. May I point out though that my father whose mouth was full of mercury fillings for decade got his first grey strands in his mid 60s and that my brother who is quite "mercury free" was struck by grey in his late 30s, as was my mother whose dental condition has always been remarkable. I do not believe too much in this option.

dLaertios, what you suggest is : ionic copper (what concentration?) + PABA (what concentration?). But I understood in a previous post of yours that what you needed the machine for was precisely colloidal copper. So, dissolving some copper Cu2+ something would rather do the trick without the machine?

Niko: as any prohormonal substance, tribulus is likely to induce hairloss with individuals subject to DHT overproduction. I would touch it with a grain of salt.

BTW: I 've found 2 more strands white at the tip and black at the root and 2 other exhibiting the exact reverse condition. Since I see no overall improvement, I am wondering if depletion of melanin is not a puffing-choking process in its early stages until melanocytes come to an outright shutdown after a few weeks.

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 3/27/2007 7:28 PM (GMT -5)

Brm,

Interesting information.

Maybe the whole thing of grey hair is genetic but I believe that we can help our bodies with the right supplementation to overcome it. Maybe if your brother had amalgam fillings [he would have] started to go grey from his early teens. Who knows?

It isn't the same thing to dissolve copper. Colloidal copper are negative ions and as Dr Wallach says the body can absorb them easily. Ionic copper is better because the particles are smaller and our body can absorb it very easy.

Something else is that maybe with aging the hair follicle becomes bigger in diameter and although there are plenty of melanocytes to dark colored persons can't dye the hair. Thats my opinion. So maybe with copper as it helps the skin become tighter and with the massage our scalp skin become tighter and the melanocytes become able to dye the hair. It is something possible.

brm
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154

Posted 3/28/2007 10:07 AM (GMT -5)

So, this ionic copper you talk about is negative ionic copper? Right? processed from colloidal copper or what? But where does flowergirl get her ionic copper? And do you know what kind of copper folligen contains (copper peptides): positive or negative?

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 3/28/2007 1:21 PM (GMT -5)

I read that colloidal form of copper (ionic also) is anion. It doesn't matter as our body needs copper not in form of anion or cation.

The whole thing is experimental. There were anecdotal reports that copper worked. Zorba tried a solution and it worked for him and was kind to share.

I tried a similar solution and this works for me. Maybe are the supplements that help I don't know but I don't have to check it right now as my number one priority is to reverse my white hair. :).

Supplement regimen:
breakfast: 15 mg beta-carotene, 4 of brewers yeast
lunch: super B+C, 550 mg pantothenic
dinner (not every day now as sometimes have fast food and take lunch late at noon): Vit E 1000 iu.

brm
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154

Posted 3/29/2007 10:17 AM (GMT -5)

dLaertios, thank you for this regime you share here. But again, what is the concentration of this copper solution you have? I think I remember that water is not the vehicle, is it?
I may consider buying this http://www.purestcolloids.com/mesocopper.htm

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 4/4/2007 6:12 PM (GMT -5)

Brm,
your colloid seems good. It isn't bad idea to use it internally. Maybe is better than the one I make in my home and you will be able to control the daily dosage of copper which I can't.

I don' t know how much copper I take daily because I don't know the concentration of my homemade solution. I have only searched about copper overload to body and I am careful if any of these symptoms appears to lower my dose. Also I try to take 2 tablespoons (to 4) as it is very difficult to have achieve so much copper concentration that will be more than the daily 4 mg dosage which doesn't hurt.

As far as the topical concerned I wouldn't use that expensive colloid but I suggest to make your own bulk homemade as it won't hurt your scalp I assume.

Good luck

cdkona
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 38

Posted 4/5/2007 9:19 AM (GMT -5)

I have been using a topical solution of ionic copper and dmae H3 for about 6 weeks, with no visible change. I want to make sure I am using the right copper solution. It is found here http://www.kornax.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ACU&Category_Code=&Store_Code=KE

If anyone could take a look and let me know if I am on the right track, that would be great. Having read about homemade solutions, collodials, etc, I am wondering if I am using the right stuff.

By the way I have not used this or the DMAE H3 orally, so that may be the reason this hasn't produced results yet.

Thanks!

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 4/5/2007 2:10 PM (GMT -5)

Nice feedback cdkona,
I don't know what other supplements do you take, your age and the percentance of your gray hair.
I think you don't apply sufficient amount to your scalp .
Try to make your own colloidal as it will be cheap and you won't have a problem to massage generous amounts to your scalp every day. Use this bottle for oral supplementation 2-4 mg a day sounds good.
I am almost in the third month and every day I see less and less gray.
I became optimist and started to give my scalp a half hour massage daily as I want to get rid of gray hair asap.
supplement regimen:
morning : beta carotene 15 mg, 4 brewers yeast
lunch : super B+C, 550mg pantothenic acid
dinner : 1000 iu vitamin E

cdkona
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 38

Posted 4/5/2007 5:52 PM (GMT -5)

I am in my mid 30s, probably 15-20% gray, more so in the back of the head and above the ears.

I use half a tablespoon of copper solution and a dropperful of the Twinlab DMAE H3. I apply that and it totally saturates my head, to the point where it will be running/dripping all over the place if I use more.

For supplements I take acetyl L-Carnitine 400 mg and ALA 200 mg, saw Palmetto, PABA (500 mg), Fo-ti 1220 mg and a daily vitamin. I just added magnesium 400 mg /zinc 15 mg and this week biotin 60 0mcg due to what I read about ALA inducing grays. I also take a B-150 vitamin supplement.

I got a strange sensation from the DMAE H3 orally, maybe I should start with a lower dose than the 10 drops.

Anyway that's the full report, it looks like I need to change my shopping list and maybe pick up some brewer's yeast, vitamin E, pantothenic acid. I want to try this route first. If I find something that works I hope to drop the things that don't. Its a lot of pills to keep track of daily.

Any place you could recommend buying the colloidal?

Thanks!

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 4/6/2007 9:32 AM (GMT -5)

I think half tablespoon is a little quantity. Try to make your own for topical use so as to be cheap to use a large quantity. Also I dissolve a PABA capsule 550 mg to my solution, I believe a lot more than that to a dropperful of your DMAE.

Last I would recommend to take some copper internally maybe 1-2 teaspoon daily.
Good Luck.

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