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cdkona
Registered Member
     
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 38
| Posted 6/4/2007 11:11 AM (GMT -5) |   | Is anyone trying copper + DMAE H3 topically besides zorba and dLaertios? Any success? I have been using ionic copper and dmae h3 for 90 days and I only see more gray hair. I have not yet made my own colloidal with the device that dLaertios recommends, but I may switch to that soon.
I do think the supplements have improved the quality but not the color of my hair. If anyone can weigh in with progress or lack thereof, it would be appreciated.
Thanks. | | Back to Top | | |
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flowergirl
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 54
| Posted 6/4/2007 12:26 PM (GMT -5) | | yes, ive been using the ionic copper and the DMAE H3 for about the same time, and no obvious change with me either. i thought there may have been about a 10% improvement, but now im not so sure. am in half a mind to stop doing it, but think i'll carry on for a couple more months
any tips from you zorba?? | | Back to Top | | |
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dLaertios
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Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119
| Posted 6/5/2007 1:49 PM (GMT -5) | | | | |
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Alessio
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 104
| Posted 6/5/2007 4:23 PM (GMT -5) | | | | |
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DDye
Forum Moderator
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 336
| Posted 6/8/2007 9:44 AM (GMT -5) | | | Tyrosine could enhance the growth of a pre-existing melanoma, so if this runs in anyone's family or if they have a personal history of melanoma, it would be advisable not to use it. | | Back to Top | | |
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jcwst1
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Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 32
| Posted 6/8/2007 11:37 AM (GMT -5) | | |
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I have many dental fillings as well, though 13 of my 31 teeth are now protheses whose frames are metallic but not made of mercury. I don't plan to replace the existing fillings since many of the affected teeth might just collapse from the very removing of the filling itself. I supplement both zinc and copper orally. I also take vit C (only 100 mg daily since it plays a little havoc on my stomach).
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comments on fillings & vit C --
I had all my silver fillings replaced with resin "white" fillings or bondings -- they are much better because they hold the tooth together (and the reason I started using them is because my teeth with silver fillings were cracking). Also silver fillings only last a few years, but resin fillings may last a lifetime (they do wear down a bit). Plus the concern about mercury -- I recommend resin fillings to everyone.
about vit C -- use Ester-C. Ester-C is nonacidic and doesn't upset the stomach, plus it's absorbed much better because it is fat-soluble, not just water-soluble like plain vit C.
I have seen my gray hair (sides and front) go from whitish to sort of light bleach-blond over the last 2-3 years. I have been following the advice on the gray hair page at askwaltstollmd.com, which includes magnesium and ester-C (I take about everying else listed in the posts above; caution, excess copper can be toxic). I'm not sure what's working and neither is Walt Stoll, but one thing he attributes his hair color to is taking lots of ester-C (about 4 grams/day). I take 3 grams/day.
Jim
Post Edited (jcwst1) : 6/8/2007 11:55:59 AM (GMT-4) | | Back to Top | | |
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cdkona
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 38
| Posted 6/11/2007 10:30 AM (GMT -5) | | | Thanks for the update dLaertios. I began vit E as well in the last two weeks. I stopped using tyrosine due to the advice from DDye above. So you say you have some reversal; can you estimate a percentage? | | Back to Top | | |
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dLaertios
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119
| Posted 6/12/2007 5:09 PM (GMT -5) | | I estimate 20% reversal. I was too grey to start with. My head hair was grey not facial. I suppose it was genetic, stress, bad diet and a lot of smoking. I think the topical needs a lot of massage to be effective but it is difficult to do every day.
Cdkona now that you started supplementation of E make this experiment: Find a white facial hair and pluck it - see after three weeks what happened. If it came back white pluck it again and tell us. My supplementation of E is 1000 iu once a day. What is yours?
Also I have observed that those who supplement with C don't get grey. From my research found that one reason for grey hair is that kidney and/or liver have too many toxins and need to be flushed so as to be functional again. I believe the ones who had a lot of C their organs are clear from toxic minerals and more functional.
Last it 's my belief that grey hair isn't the result of reduction of melanocytes - that way black people shouldn't have this problem- but it is the sagging of head skin. That 's why wrinkles and grey hair come together. In case of premature grey I hope it is a simple mineral deficiency or something simple to correct. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 893
| Posted 6/13/2007 10:19 AM (GMT -5) | | Researchers have hypothesized that grey hair is a precursor to broader, underlying health issues. One biomarker that supports this theory is the amino acid cysteine. Cysteine is the major constituent of keratin, the primary component of hair and also plays a role in melanin production -- hair's pigment.
Cysteine is probably one of the most important amino acids for hair, among other critical bodily functions. It's a sulfur-containing amino acid and found in abundantly in such foods as: egg yolks and also broccoli, brussel sprouts, onions, and garlic -- most foods people avoid or dislike. However heat destroys cysteine and thus is very low in today's modern diet due to processing and cooking. In addition, most people have impaired colon function and unable to properly absorb nutrients from food so supplementing is needed.
In times of stress, malnutrition or disease the body takes cysteine from less important functions and redirects it toward more critical functions of the body -- like producing glutathione and insulin. The first signs of this redirection of cysteine can be seen in the fingernails and hair, where growth is slowed or halted and hair falls out and/or looses pigment. In times of distress, the body can do without proper hair or fingernails but you will die if you don't have proper amounts glutathione or insulin.
Undenatured whey protein contains the richest source of bio-available cysteine known as "cystine" or "bonded cysteine". (two molecules of cysteine linked together by a disulfide bond). This bonded cysteine is not degraded by stomach acids but rather safely transported via the bloodstream directly to the tissues, cells and hair follicles where it is then be utilized to make keratin, melanin, glutathione, among other things.
L-cysteine supplements which are mostly made from discarded human hair, feathers and pig bristles are spontaneously catabolized in the gastrointestinal tract and blood plasma and thus rendered ineffective. Fortunately, we have more appetizing and effective alternatives such as undenatured whey. Also supplemental cysteine is a known excitotoxin. So If you are unable to metabolize cysteine correctly you may be at risk for certain neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, among others. Consumption of foods containing cysteine is not associated with any toxicity.
When you look at the bigger picture you see that cysteine is important to other elements including methionine, taurine, vitamin B6, B12, SAMe, folic acid, among others. Perhaps this shows greying of the hair due to low levels of cysteine is linked to a larger more complex issue of poor diet and undiagnosed, chronic nutrient deficiencies. | | Back to Top | | |
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cdkona
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 38
| Posted 6/13/2007 3:02 PM (GMT -5) | | D'Laertios, I take vit E 400 IU twice a day. I drink endless amounts of orange juice so I assume this meets the vit C requirement. I will try the facial hair test.
Thanks for the input on cysteine Tom. I will look for undenatured whey. I exercise a lot so could probably use the protein anyway. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 893
| Posted 6/15/2007 10:01 AM (GMT -5) | | | I wanted to add something to my previous post. The observation of cysteine in the role of grey hair could also demonstrate how the body utilizes nutrients to sustain vital processes from the degenerative effects of aging itself, not just from chronic, self-induced malnutrition. In any regard, I think it does demonstrate that more nutrients are needed as we get older and that the governments "one-size-fits-all" RDA can present a false sense of adequacy. | | Back to Top | | |
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Alessio
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 104
| Posted 6/15/2007 10:06 AM (GMT -5) | | It looks like Loreal Paris made some testings according to their newest patent about premature canities.
Patent Number: 20070065389 March 22, 2007
Here is a summary from their patent:
0530] Examples of Compositions TABLE-US-00027 Hair lotion DNA fragment from chromosomal zone included 0.5 g between markers D3S1277 and D3S1285 propylene glycol 20 g 95.degree. ethanol 30 g water qsp 100 g
[0531] This lotion was applied daily to the zones to be treated, preferably to the whole scalp, for at least 10 days and preferably 1 to 2 months.
[0532] A reduction in the appearance of white or gray hairs and re-pigmentation of gray hair was observed. TABLE-US-00028 Treatment shampoo DNA fragment from the chromosomal zone included 1.5 g between the D5S2115 and D5S422 markers polyglyceryl 3-hydroxylarylether 26 g hydroxypropyl cellulose sold as Klucell G by Hercules 2 g preservatives qps 95.degree. ethanol 50 g water qsp 100 g
[0533] This shampoo was used at each wash, leaving it on the hair for about one minute. Long term use, of the order of two months, resulted in progressive re-pigmentation of gray hair. This shampoo could also be used preventatively to retard whitening of the hair. TABLE-US-00029 Treatment gel DNA fragment from the chromosomal zone 0.75 g included between markers D11S898 and D11S925 essential eucalyptus oils 1 g econozole 0.2 g lauryl polyglyceryl 6-cetearyl glycoether 1.9 g preservatives qs carbopol 934P, sold by BF Goodrich Corporation 0.3 g neutralizing agent qs pH 7 water qsp 100 g
[0534] This gel was applied to the zones to be treated twice daily (morning and evening) with a finishing massage. After three months application, repigmentation of hair was observed in the treated zone.
I hope that will be soon available on the market. | | Back to Top | | |
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snoopy
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 76
| Posted 6/15/2007 10:51 AM (GMT -5) | |
Tom ..... When you look at the bigger picture you see that cysteine is important to other elements including methionine, taurine, vitamin B6, B12, SAMe, folic acid, among others. Perhaps this shows greying of the hair due to low levels of cysteine is linked to a larger more complex issue of poor diet and undiagnosed, chronic nutrient deficiencies. I had (I had!) a grey area of hair near the ears.
The core of my supplements is a Multi, LEF Super Booster Softgels, omega-3 fatty acids, NAC and vitamin C additional.
After some weeks I detected the grey area becomes smaller, after six months I do not have a single grey hair. The reason for using supplements has nothing to do with grey hair, since I nearly don't care about it. That effect seems to me a "positive side effect" of the supplementation. I do not use copper, PABA, tyrosine.
Regards - Snoopy (63 years) | | Back to Top | | |
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dLaertios
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119
| Posted 6/15/2007 5:17 PM (GMT -5) | | Nice side effect snoopy.
Omega-3 has been linked to reverse grey hair. Also your multi will provide most minerals to you. It seems promising.
I believe that my grey hair started to lose ground. I made some changes and I believe they affected too.
First of all my topical now is tyrosine-colloidal copper 2 days, one day Paba - colloidal. The solution of tyrosine colloidal is interesting blue!!! Its taste is very metallic.
I added again E 1000 iu. Stopped pantothenic. From a scientific site read that a compination of beta-carotene , lycopene, E and C triggers your melanocyte to work without sun exposure. I only need to add lycopene to my morning drink which is 30 mg beta carotene, E 1000 iu and I try to gulp them with a glass of juice and also to have at least one fruit.
I try to have a 10 min sun exposure during midday as there is UV-B and that triggers the regeneration and increase of population of melanocytes.
Also I try to exercise every day - running. After running there is sweat on my scalp and its color is red due to increased blood flow. This help to get rid of toxins and to feed the folicles.
I will add iodine - lugols (already started with caution).
I will try to detox myself with a natural remedy - liver, kidney etc.
Let s see how will it go.
Anyone else have a positive feedback? Or something that didn't work? | | Back to Top | | |
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zorba990
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 710
| Posted 6/17/2007 5:54 PM (GMT -5) | |
snoopy said...
Tom ..... When you look at the bigger picture you see that cysteine is important to other elements including methionine, taurine, vitamin B6, B12, SAMe, folic acid, among others. Perhaps this shows greying of the hair due to low levels of cysteine is linked to a larger more complex issue of poor diet and undiagnosed, chronic nutrient deficiencies. I had (I had!) a grey area of hair near the ears.
The core of my supplements is a Multi, LEF Super Booster Softgels, omega-3 fatty acids, NAC and vitamin C additional.
After some weeks I detected the grey area becomes smaller, after six months I do not have a single grey hair. The reason for using supplements has nothing to do with grey hair, since I nearly don't care about it. That effect seems to me a "positive side effect" of the supplementation. I do not use copper, PABA, tyrosine.
Regards - Snoopy (63 years) Super Booster contains copper as chlorophyllin. Enough so that there is a warning for people with Wilson's. I've found both NAC and taurine to be very beneficial at thickening and reducing fallout (to near zero). I suspect synergy with Vitamin C.
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brm
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 6/18/2007 12:06 PM (GMT -5) | | | NAC? i.e N-acethyl carnitine or N-acetyl cysteine? Both are hyped regarding hairloss problems. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 893
| Posted 6/18/2007 1:51 PM (GMT -5) | | | Oh yes, I don't doubt they are hyped. Supplement companies love to do that once they get ahold of a study. Consuming or doing one thing is not going to give a person back a thick head of perfect hair. There are many things involved in grey hair and hair loss. Cysteine's role is just one of probably many. | | Back to Top | | |
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zorba990
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 710
| Posted 6/18/2007 2:16 PM (GMT -5) | |
dLaertios said...Interesting: http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/transform.jsp?requestURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/albinism.jsp The "hairbulb pigmentation test" is used to identify carriers by incubating a piece of the person's hair in a solution of tyrosine, a substance in food which the body uses to make melanin. If the hair turns dark, it means the hair is making melanin (a "positive" test); light hair means there is no melanin. This test is the source of the names of two types of albinism: "ty-pos" and "ty-neg." Has anyone used tyrosine as a topical? Also from search I found that UVB radiation increases the population of melanocytes. Last there is a new experimental hormone named melanotan that some people after one year of use saw reversal of their grey hair to some degree.
If the plucked hair still contains the root with the melanocytes then perhaps this
experiment might work on the bare end of the dead hair. And it might reveal if the cause of the lighter hair is missing/dead melanocytes which topicals would probably not help. Its not going to suddenly turn the whole dead hair pigmented.
It appears that if one's hair is red or blonde then tyrosine might not be the right topical or might need to be combined with NAC/glutathione. It looks like it is very dose sensitive, though and can inhibit the process at higher dosages. Whether or not this is highly regulated in VIVO remains to be seen, I think.
As much as excessive tyrosine stimulation might be best avoided by those with predisposition to melanoma, I would counter that maintaining proper function through adequate stimulation would likely be preventative if mitochondrial function is maintained.
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