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dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 7/16/2007 8:15 AM (GMT -5)

Thanks a lot snoopy.
My regimen gives me a reversal too.
The good news is that more and more people in this forum experience a reversal of grey hair.

So we do something right and the problem has a solution as it seems.

From your remedy I find that you use a lot more C than me. I am trying to increase my C intake too but have to find another form that can be taken without food. My C is ascorbotic 1 gr and I wouldn't use it with empty stomach.

This period I take tyrosine and try to find out if it helps. I am looking forward to use NAC and test it.

Hope your intution about NAC is right and it is responsible for your reversal and not the omega-3 or another supplement.

snoopy
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 76

Posted 7/16/2007 11:22 AM (GMT -5)

dLaertios,

Yes I am using a lot of vitamin C.

For different reasons:

* I'm smoker :-((

* If you use NAC it is recommended to take two to three times as much vitamin C at the same time. 2 x 600 mg NAC require appr. 3 g of vitamin C. You should also add some selenium, zinc and magnesium. Otherwise some of the NAC is processed to cystine which has no antioxidative effect and could (could!) increase the risk for kidney stones. RD is 0,5 - 1,5 g NAC per day. Reference: the book of Burgerstein (2007) I have mentioned somewhere in the forum.

Tom gave the advice to add some taurine, otherwise a part of NAC is converted to taurine. This is correct.

* Highly dosed vitamin C helps to keep the lipid levels healty. This is not advertising for vitamin C, I have measured the effect with a device using test strips for cholesterol, HDL and triglycerides.

* Vitamin C supports collagen.

* The one form of vitamin C I use is natural vitamin C of acerola fruits with extended release (expensive). I take it together with NAC on empty stomach. The multi I take 6 times distributed over the whole day. The LEF-powder is dissolved in a glass of water and I drink it mouthfulwise over some hours. This doesn't cause any problem (at least for me).

* You are right, I do not know if it is NAC that helps reversing grey hair. But the sulfur amino acid L-Cysteine makes up nearly 18% of hair and provides its strength and integral structure. I will continue researching.

* Tyrosine is important, but I didn't study it and I do not have any experience with it.

Regards - Snoopy

brm
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154

Posted 7/16/2007 5:40 PM (GMT -5)

The right vit C/vit E ratio is rather around 5, I think. SNOOPY, altogether, you take around 7 grams of vit C daily!!! How d'you manage not to have any gastric problems???? DLAERTIOS, high dose vit C is suspected of carcinogenesis: cellular cancers... My personal regimen looks like AussieDavid's except dosages are stronger. The greying process is going on, exponentially of course...

STARGAZER, what do you use against hair loss? What worked the miracle you're talking about?

snoopy
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 76

Posted 7/16/2007 6:20 PM (GMT -5)

brm,

Hm, I don't know how I can calculate a vit C/vit E ratio? With my values given above I have a mean intake 4,8 g of vit C per day. I know how much of vit E I consume (multi plus LEF Booster). But the values for vit E are defined in I.U. and not in g or mg. The calculated conversion of I.U. is only valid for d-alpha-tocopherol.
How can you calculate this for the other tocopheroles or the tocotrienoles? What is your reference for a ratio of 5?

Sorry for my typing errors

Post Edited (snoopy) : 7/16/2007 6:25:56 PM (GMT-4)

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 7/17/2007 7:13 AM (GMT -5)

I don't think that C helps cancer, I believe the contrary. You have to listen to your body in case you are afraid of overdose, but other pioneers have proved that 5 gr of C daily are safe.

Brm something is missing from aussie's regimen and I don't know what. From all the search on the internet success stories for reversing was:
1) 5 gr C daily, (water from copper tubes)
2) 4 gr C, 1gr E, multimineral/multivitamin
3) vit E
4) B vitamins, B complex
5) ormus copper

Every example worked alone for reversal.
My regimen has it all. And works for sure.
The problem is the time frame. If I need a year to reverse 10% - I 'll have full reversal in 10 years.

I need something to boost it. The good news is that I believe it will work and for you.

Maybe it is slow for me because:
a) I dye my hair- stress and oxidise them
b) Need more vitamin C- but already gained weight because I try to eat 3 times a day to take supplements. Tomorrow I 'll make a search to supplements of C that I can take on empty stomach.

StarGazer
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 118

Posted 7/17/2007 7:21 AM (GMT -5)

brm,

I don't have a miracle cure for hair loss - just a few of the lastest, most powerful drugs. I started losing my hair at age 21 - long before any of my friends/peers started losing theirs. It was very traumatic at the time.

I have used many, many lotions and potions over the years - been using different forms of Rogaine since 1988, also used Propecia and many bogus products.

Right now, I have more hair than I had in my 20s. I certainly have more than the majority of men my age (I'm 42).

My routine is: .5 mg Avodart, Rogaine 5% foam, and the LaserComb. My hair is very thick on top and grows extremely fast (I don't like the fast growth, however).

I have missed many days of taking the Avodart recently, and amazingly my hair is still holding up fine. I have also missed several days of the lasercomb.

At this point, grey hair is my main battle. I've tried He Shou Wu from Plum Flower (supposedly a high grade) for about 4 years w/o results. I know that's a long enough trial, but I'm afraid to drop it - I don't know if it's at least slowing down the rate of greying. I suppose it isn't.

I supplement well, eat well, and exercise regularly. I also have used LEF's GliSODin for the past 6 months or so. It hasn't helped with the grey like I hoped it might (given the SOD gel research with mice), but the research shows GliSODin helps with so many other things, so I'll stay with it.

I'll probably add a few of Snoopy's items to my regimine, perhaps 1 at a time. Perhaps the LEF Super Booster next. I'll also probably switch from regular vit C to Ester-C.

snoopy
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 76

Posted 7/17/2007 11:16 AM (GMT -5)

dLaertios,

If you use vit C in the form of an extract of acerola (south american fruit) with delayed release you can take it on empty stomach (at least I can do). Here you can get it. The price is EUR 76 for 365 capsules with 1 g vit C www.switamin.com (Switzerland, Netherlands).
Also the buffered LEF-vit C with ascorbates can be used without getting the stomach more acid. The rest is only 800 mg ascorbic acid.

Two times per week I also use a base powder to avoid an acid overload and to keep the pH-value of the urine between 6,0 and 6,8. This can be verified with test strips (cheap).

At the other hand, there are some hints that our body can only process 300 mg vit C per single intake. I cannot clearify this problem, therefore I take all the vit C distributed over 16 hours.

Regards - Snoopy

Post Edited (snoopy) : 7/17/2007 12:37:08 PM (GMT-4)

snoopy
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 76

Posted 7/17/2007 2:41 PM (GMT -5)

brm said...
The right vit C/vit E ratio is rather around 5, I think. SNOOPY, altogether, you take around 7 grams of vit C daily!!! How d'you manage not to have any gastric problems???? DLAERTIOS, high dose vit C is suspected of carcinogenesis: cellular cancers... My personal regimen looks like AussieDavid's except dosages are stronger. The greying process is going on, exponentially of course...

STARGAZER, what do you use against hair loss? What worked the miracle you're talking about?

The vit E family consists of 4 tocopherols (alpha- to delta-tocopherol) and 4 tocotrienols (also alpha- to delta-tocotrienol).

As far as I know the measuring unit "IU" is only defined for alpha-tocopherol and not for the other types. I have found a way to calculate the amoung in g to I.U. and vv.

1 mg D-alpha-tocopherol = 1.49 I.U. vit E

1 mg DL-alpha-tocopherol (synthetic!) = 1.00 I.U. vit E

Now I know that my intake is appr. 1.000 I.U. or 630 g vit E.

The vit C/vit E ratio is strongly higher than 5.

Could you give a reference for this ratio?

Thank you in advance.

Regards - Snoopy

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 7/17/2007 3:08 PM (GMT -5)

Thanks for all snoopy.
I decided to boost the supplement regimen more.
Added one B+C more =) 3 grams of C + 3*B-complex 50.
I am sure that will work wonders.

Furthermore I ordered chelated copper 2.5 mg to add it to my regimen too.

So now I have it all.
The only concern is how I can remedy zinc and iron intake.

Lets see what will happen.

Alessio
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 104

Posted 7/17/2007 5:36 PM (GMT -5)

I do not believe that so much vitamin C is the key, because body only take as much as it needs the rest goes out through urine.

brm
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154

Posted 7/17/2007 5:48 PM (GMT -5)

Snoopy, my conversion rate from I.U to mg is exactly yours: 15 IU=10 mg for d-alpha-tocopherol. I cannot clearly understand why this rate should be different for the levo- form. The chemical compound has the same molecular weight. Maybe the explanation lies in some buffer coefficient due to poorer absorption qualities. Ditto for other forms of vit E (beta, gamma,... that only define a different position of a particular substitution group in the isotope if I remember correctly).
Ratio vit C/vit E: no one can say for sure. I just consider the ADV that most developed countries give. They generally point to a value of 6 in favor of vit C. What those medicos seem positive about is that vit E or vitC used on their own act as prooxidants whereas their synergy is thought to be antioxidant.
Sorry dLaertios. I meant vit E is said by some to be connected to some forms of cellular cancers. Where do you get your vit C and vit E from?How much do they charge?
Stargazer, any side effects from avodart? I personally use 1/2 proscar a day with a poor sex drive... Do you think lasercomb is of any use? Which model d'you have?
Thank you all.

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 7/18/2007 9:20 AM (GMT -5)

Cancer isn't my concern at the time.

Also I don't believe that supplements will give you cancer - except maybe tyrosine -

I don't take straight C, but super B+C. 13 euros 30 pills. For E : 20 euros 30 pills.

I know it is a lot of money for supplements but I feel better and if they eventually work against grey hair I don't mind at all.

brm
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 154

Posted 7/18/2007 9:29 AM (GMT -5)

MELATONIN IN QUESTION.

http://www.nature.com/jidsp/journal/v10/n3/full/5640228a.html
Read this thru. They say that reactive oxygen species stems from the growing inability of antoixidant mechanisms to do their jobs as we age. And one of the two studies they list concerning melatonin hints at the ability of melatonin to scavenge this reactive oxygne species in a dose dependent manner. So, good point as i t seems, for melatonin.

Now this one.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1292300
Download the "complete article" in pdf.

They describe how the activation of melatonin receptors might inhibit the transformation of dopa into melanin without blocking the oxidative process of melanogenesis in its early stages. The scavenging warrior is melanin itself. Absent of it, the melanocyte gets killed by its own inablity to produce melanin because of the activatio of the melatonin receptor... in an irreversible way... Melatonin receptors activation can stem from high concentrations of melatonin in the skin, so for instance, i guess, topical supplementation. Very bad point for melatonin.

And this one http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1201498
search for melatonin in this page and you'll see that it is a "factor providing negative regulation of melanogenesis"... Another bad point
The problem is that I find melatonin having anti hair loss effects and would like to keep it in my regimen as I'm using it again since June 1st. I think I'm going to try the solution in the armpit to see whether it induces grey in an area where it is currently nonexistent.

snoopy
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 76

Posted 7/18/2007 11:37 AM (GMT -5)

dLaertios,

for zinc are some reference values:

DACH (2000): 10 mg

US RDA (2001): 11 mg

Werbach (1990, therapeutic intake) 20 - 100 mg

These are the "male values", female values are a little bit lower. My personal daily intake is 15 mg as zinc picolinate, which has a good bioavailability. Intakes higher than 25 mg can have interactions with copper, mangan, calzium and iron. More than 125 mg can have toxic side effects.

There is some consens in the literature to supplement iron only if a blood test shows a deficit of iron. Also: if you take a lot of vit C your body will take up more iron of the normal meals. Therefore I do not supplement iron. My last blood test confirms that.

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 7/18/2007 11:47:30 AM (GMT-4)

Alessio
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 104

Posted 7/25/2007 9:48 AM (GMT -5)

Hello!

I have read yesterday that sciece has found out that hair goes grey because the absence of LIZIN.

Kakarot
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 4

Posted 7/25/2007 9:49 AM (GMT -5)

Read the following on new pigmentation enhancers being developed by biotech; we could get these from Sigma-Aldrich and try them ourselves to see which work best:

File Attachment :
skin_pigmentation_enhancers.pdf 124KB (application/pdf)

This file has been downloaded 265 time(s).

Alessio
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 104

Posted 7/25/2007 9:49 AM (GMT -5)

lizin=lysine

Lysine is an essential amino acid, which means that it is essential to human health but cannot be manufactured by the body. For this reason, lysine must be obtained from food. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein. Lysine is important for proper growth and it plays an essential role in the production of carnitine, a nutrient responsible for converting fatty acids into energy and helping to lower cholesterol. Lysine appears to help the body absorb and conserve calcium and it plays an important role in the formation of collagen, a substance important for bones and connective tissues including skin, tendon, and cartilage.

dLaertios
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 119

Posted 7/25/2007 12:42 PM (GMT -5)

Alessio,

give the link with the article on lysine.

A product for hair, skin and nails from Solgar has Lysine in it: 50 mg. Also I found that lysine is a cheap amino acid.

As for the article of kakarot said that psoralens can induce hair follicle pigmentation (+ DMSO or UVA). I think that psoralens are a little dangerous to handle.

lad
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 140

Posted 7/25/2007 3:43 PM (GMT -5)

Also interesting (from a hair product website):

"While L-lysine is NOT a DHT blocker, it may make dht blockers more effective. Researchers have found that adding a supplement of L-lysine can make drugs like propecia more effective. Since propecia is a DHT inhibitor, as all the natural products mentioned in this page. The addition of a l-Lysine supplement can make these products also more effective. Studies have shown that L-lysine combined with a DHT inhibitor can promote hair growth in people suffering from androgenetic alopecia."

cdkona
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 38

Posted 7/27/2007 10:44 AM (GMT -5)

A interesting article about lysine-copper peptides in relation to hair loss/color.

http://www.skinbiology.com/2004RussiaHairRemodeling.html

Alessio
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 104

Posted 8/6/2007 9:02 AM (GMT -5)

dLaertios!
Sorry for late respond. But I cannot provide you link, because I have read this in newspaper.

gotsomegray
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 72

Posted 8/6/2007 2:53 PM (GMT -5)

I hate to post more L'Oreal info, but I decided to go to their consumer website to see if anything new had popped up. Here's a paragraph under hair care that isn't much different from what's been posted on this message board, but I think it's promising that L'Oreal went as far as putting this on their website. Anyway, here it is:

"A Revolutionary Discovery
Of course, discovering ever-more-effective ways to cover gray hair is still a key area of our research. Hair derives its natural color from melanin, a substance that absorbs the portion of available light not reflected by the hair's surface. After 30 years of research, L'Oréal's laboratories have developed a precursor molecule for melanin. This molecule enables the natural process of hair pigmentation to take place biologically through a slow oxidative process. This molecule may soon lead to a completely new way of enhancing hair color and covering gray."

AussieDavid
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 181

Posted 8/9/2007 9:51 AM (GMT -5)

Some more info from the Loreal website. I don't think they're close to stopping or reversing grey hair, but maybe they're close to changing the way we cover it.

http://www.hair-science.com/_int/_en/topic/topic_sousrub.aspx?tc=ROOT-HAIR-SCIENCE^AMAZINGLY-NATURAL^GREY-HAIR&cur=GREY-HAIR

Alessio
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 104

Posted 8/12/2007 6:39 PM (GMT -5)

Gotsomegray have you checked the date of this publication? I believe that Loreal have discover this molecule at least 3 or 4 years ago and so far no progress have been made. I pesonally do not have any hope more that any cosmetic company will provide us the cure anytime soon. Perhaps in decade or so.

I personally give more on genetic. Follica have buy the licence for some potential cure for baldness, found by one American university. the finding follows the team's announcement three years ago that it had found parent cells - stem cells - in mouse hair follicles that can regenerate hair, skin and follicles after being implanted. At the time the team said that it hoped to isolate stem cells and use them to generate new follicles. But in the test tube Dr Cotsarelis and his team were surprised to find that the stem cells did not directly contribute to the growth of follicles. Today's work shows that to form follicles the body "reprograms" other skin (epidermal) cells. However, the new hair did not have pigment.

And so they will probably find the way to pigment that hair and there is a hope for us.

What about you dLaertios have you achieved any more reversal?

StarGazer
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 118

Posted 8/13/2007 12:05 AM (GMT -5)

Couple things on L'Oreal:

1) Someone posted their patent here in which they successfully tested their patented product on a small group of humans already. So why do you think it will still be a decade from now?

Unless it has to go through regular FDA trials, which I doubt since any cream, lotion, or shampoo would not be taken internally, they could get it rolling much sooner than that if it really worked.

2) A read a quote from someone at L'Oreal (might have been a scientist at the firm, I don't recall), who said back in 2004 that they might have something out in "5-10 years." It's already been 3 years since then. Which means would could see something 2-7 years from now if his prediction is still on target.

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