| The Life Extension Foundation Forums > LEF Public Forums > Dietary Supplements > Integra-lean anyone. | Forum Quick Jump
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LouD
Registered Member
     
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 56
| Posted 12/30/2008 12:45 PM (GMT -4) |   | “I think one needs to read the research and decide for themselves the validity of Integra Lean.” -- DR Vitamin Solutions, a vendor of the product
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Well, that’s easy enough, as it appears that all the research on Integra with cholesterol and weight loss was done by one group, led by Julis Oben. I’ve looked at the numbers in his 2005 report in PubMed (Effect of Irvingia gabonensis crude extract on body weight, body fat, waist and hip circumferences). In it, Oben claims the study was randomized, double blind, and crossover, but looking at his numbers—particularly those in Table One—it appears that none of these things are possible. The study could not have been blind (one group was much heavier than the other), could not have been randomized (body fat, weight and cholesterol levels were vastly different between the groups, by factors of as much as 2 or more), and shows no evidence of crossover. It also appears at least some of the numbers were invented (take a look at the placebo results for weeks zero and 2). So I’d say from this paper alone, that Oben’s research cannot be trusted. | | Back to Top | | |
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Shelldoll
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 89
| Posted 12/30/2008 12:47 PM (GMT -4) | | JulieJ,
The test subjects were suffering metabolic syndrome and obesity....they didn't just have 7 lbs to lose. This product was not tested on people subjectively overweight by 5-10 lbs...so I don't understand your disappointment. Also some people will unconsciously overeat if they think they have a magic pill that won't allow weight gain. The test was on people who didn't change their eating habits. Well through the Holidays, I severely, along with millions of others, overate and the national average of weight gain through the Holidays according to women's mags is 5-15 lbs. So to blame your weight gain through the Holidays on a product that was meant for obesity in my opinion a isn't reasonable conclusion.
Here's my account....
I was 196 just before Thanksgiving then 201 Monday after Thanksgiving when my Integra Lean arrived....after one week on Integra Lean I was down to 195, the next week 192, the next week 191 and a couple days after that weigh in I clocked in at 189.6 I was SO stoked...then Christmas! I did gain back around 4 lbs over Christmas taking it faithfully, BUT I admit I grossly overate, imbibed and the plumbing is very sluggish along with high salt intake (so maybe 2 lbs bloat and 2 lbs slow colon) so I suspect it will be like Thanksgiving and be gone by the end of the week cuz my inch loss is still there. Of course, I'm going to be partying like a Rock Star on New Years because it is the first year we lived in town and our oldest daughter is responsible to babysit! So if things don't pan out, I'm not getting my panties in a bunch yet! I think the fair trial will be after the Holidays when eating and schedule turns back to a more normal pace.
Hey Scottie! I think there are several positive accounts on LCC and here considering the short amount of time its been out, but you also have to remember it takes time and a lot of people complaining aren't dedicated (unlike you they are throwing in the towel after 1 or 2 weeks tops), expect immediate major results, or maybe don't qualify because they have only a couple pounds to lose, etc....and I think people are more apt to write a complaint than a positive comment. Like a post before, seems it does have more of an effect the longer you take it according to the studies (like fucoxanthin take 6 weeks to start working) and of course it may not work for some people at all so it is a good thing in that case Life Extension offers ONE YEAR for a money back guarantee! Heck Vitacost wouldn't take back vitamins when the inner seal was punctured when I opened them 30 days after purchase...I didn't open them right away because the kids' vitamins hadn't run out and I wanted them fresh...they told me I should I opened them right away and too bad! I told them, you just lost a customer FOREVER! I will never buy from them again if they won't honor a broken inner seal 45 days after purchase.
So I'm trying to stay positive and focused....had I been LEF's marketing advisor, as I said from the beginning...I would have vehemently resisted the release of this product during the height of the Holiday Season when people are prone to overeating....in my opinion it was product suicide and the person or persons who advised its release pre-Thanksgiving would be searching for new employment for putting LEF's reputation at risk! I'm going to stock up because if they decide to pull it from the market or something silly due to complaining or timing....I don't want to be without it. | | Back to Top | | |
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SusanM
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 89
| Posted 12/30/2008 12:49 PM (GMT -4) | | Also to Julie J - You said after stopping Integra-Lean you feel much better. Can you say exactly how? I have been on it for 3-1/2 weeks and I have absolutely no side effects at all. Nothing. Nada. Zippo.
Moderator - can you please tell us exactly when Integra-Lean was available for purchase? Thanks. | | Back to Top | | |
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DragonflyPR
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 30
| Posted 12/30/2008 1:23 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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LouD
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 56
| Posted 12/30/2008 2:21 PM (GMT -4) | |
DDye said...Is the title correct: "Effect of Irvingia gabonensis crude extract on body weight, body fat, waist and hip circumferences?"
The title is actually, “The effect of Irvingia gabonensis seeds on body weight and blood lipids of obese subjects in Cameroon .” In the paper, Oben says, “The study was as a randomised, double blind placebo-controlled crossover design, and consisted of a 4-week treatment period.”
But was it really randomized? According to Table 1, the active group weighed 105.1 kg initially while the placebo group weighed 79.43. That’s not right, of course, they should have been more or less equal. Worse, after two weeks the placebo group did not change at all—they averaged 79.43 +/- 9.83 both before and after. This is statistically so unlikely as to be almost impossible. Same thing for hip measurement, which was 122.2 +/- 10.7 both before and after.
And there are more problems. Cholesterol, for instance. Even though the active group was 1/3 heavier than the placebo group and had higher body fat, they had twice the high density cholesterol: 61.23 vs. 31.38. Which seems medically unlikely and statistically impossible.
More problems:
In the abstract, Oben states, “At the end, the mean body weight of the IG group was decreased by 5.26 +/- 2.37%.” Later he states, “Irvingia gabonensis induced a decrease in weight of 5.6 +/- 2.7%.” But from the table, the loss was 3.8% for the 4 weeks. So we have at least three figures for the weight loss, two from the write up and one from the table, and none of them are the same.
Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 12/30/2008 12:30:11 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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JulieJ
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 24
| Posted 12/30/2008 3:44 PM (GMT -4) | | To Dragonfly PR - Millions of people come to the US to study science and do research because their countries do not have the technology or the same educational levels as ours. A PhD granted in some other country can be quite easy. I have a Master degree in chemistry and have worked in the industry for 25 years. I've met scientists from all over the world and scientists are they are not all the same as you put it. Africa?
Also - according to LouD - these scientist in Africa can't round numbers correctly - 5.26 doesn't round to 5.6.
Susan M - I was on this product over 2 months - so it was not the holidays. I exercise a lot and watch what I eat. This product does not work. The eight pounds was not because of the holidays, I was trying to diet but was not successful. Yes, I blame it on this product because I have had more success without it. I am disappointed in LEF - they never said don't try it unless you're 40+ overweight. Shame on them! | | Back to Top | | |
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JulieJ
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 24
| Posted 12/30/2008 3:45 PM (GMT -4) | | | Shelldoll - who the heck are you to judge? Being 10 pounds overweight means I cannot fit into my clothes. I'm only 5ft 2in so that's like a taller person being 20 pounds overweight. And how do you know what my eating habits were when I took it? And I can be disappointed if I want to! | | Back to Top | | |
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scottie99
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 265
| Posted 12/30/2008 5:12 PM (GMT -4) | | | Hi JulieJ. I'm going back to a formula I used about 10 years ago with very good success and I figured I'd share what I did in case you have some interest. It starts with Trans D-Tropin by Balance Dermaceuticals (I wish LEF carried this product). It's a very effective transdermal hgh secretagogue. It's pricey but worth it imo. I also used a high quality protein spread out throughout the day (this was from a company called proteinfactory.com, I could create a custom formula and buy by the pound). It was effectively a high protein, low carb, low-moderate calorie approach where I'd have 6-8 of these protein drinks per day (approximately 20 grams of protein per serving for me but you can obviously reduce that) to keep my blood sugar from plummeting and my muscles safe from wasting away. I'd also have a low GL/GI carb in the AM along with some high fiber food and periodically during the day have some nutritious salads/vegetables. This approach with the trans-d and exercise 2-3 times per day was amazing. For the exercise I highly recommend one session of weight training and one session of just movement like walking or bike riding. | | Back to Top | | |
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gunfyter
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 40
| Posted 12/30/2008 5:12 PM (GMT -4) | | |
Some thoughts:
I am not sure, but do I believe eating these pills can cause weight gain?
How does the product work?
1. Appetite Suppression:
You eat fewer calories because of a correction of your blood chemistry ...CRP and leptin levels... which tells you ... you have had enough to eat.
If you do not eat less than before ... you do not lose weight.
There is no way the same amount of calories consumed and the same expended (excercise)... will result in a weight loss.
2. Fat metabolism:
If your leptin levels and CRP levels are normal to begin with ... will this stuff work? Is there a level that is BETTER than normal for fat metabolism?
3. Studies were on OBESE people with metabolic syndrome.
These people had abnormally HIGH CRP, Leptin, and Triglyceride levels. After several weeks the levels were reduced and THEN weight was lost. Weight loss seems to come after ... the changes in blood chemistry.
Once again, are people with normal blood chemistry likely to benefit? I don't know.
20 days on Slim Signals for me. I could lose 40 to 50 lbs. I have metabolic syndrome. I have been down as much as 5 lbs since I started but only down about 2 or 3 right now.
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JulieJ
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 24
| Posted 12/30/2008 6:46 PM (GMT -4) | | | Scottie - thanks for not bashing. I actually had a lot of success with a product LEF product that was discontinued called Natural Weight Loss - it contained an appetite supressant and CLA. I can't take the product you mentioned because of some health issues I had in the past. But I agree that a high protein diet is the way to go. I lift weights about 3-4 times a week and also run/elliptical. What's worked for me is low salt (in processed foods too), no dairy, and eating protein, good fats, friuts and veggies. By cutting out salt, dairy, and breads, your body just starts losing weight. | | Back to Top | | |
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Shelldoll
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 89
| Posted 12/30/2008 8:03 PM (GMT -4) | | JulieJ,
Well you are bashing a product that was designed for OBESITY and METABOLIC SYNDROME...so who am I to judge? I think the question is WHO are YOU to judge this product? You are 7 lbs overweight by YOUR standards and your clothes don't fit as good does not qualify as OBESITY by anyone's standards. You haven't even stated your weight only your height. When I was 105 lbs and gained to 110 lbs I thought it was the end of the world so I can relate, but honestly you are not even a candidate for Integra Lean or Slim Signals....so return it for your refund instead of going on a complain fest that it didn't work for you. You said some awful things that could scare someone who the product would actually work for from trying it! Who knows, maybe you will actually one day face the plight of being an obese person and see what it is really like and have a reason to complain that companies take advantage of our situation. I am the biggest diet pill skeptic there is and haven't purchased diet pills in forever with the exception of Fucoxanthin prior to the Integra Lean and SlimSignals. It is working for me and if I only had 7 lbs to lose by "my standards" I would thank Heaven! So get your refund and be thankful you are dealing with a company that is reputable and will refund you. I'm sorry you viewed my previous post as a personal attack...it isn't, it is simply stating the truth whereas you are unjustly judging a product that isn't even suited for your situation. | | Back to Top | | |
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scottie99
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 265
| Posted 12/30/2008 8:22 PM (GMT -4) | | | JulieJ, yes that's pretty much what works for me as well. Carbs really are my enemy. I may try the CLA some time also. | | Back to Top | | |
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JulieJ
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 24
| Posted 12/31/2008 11:16 AM (GMT -4) | | | Oh Shelldoll - you are so ignorant - you have not idea who I am or what my qualifications are to judge this product. Just cause you're obese doesn't mean your better than me!! | | Back to Top | | |
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JulieJ
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 24
| Posted 12/31/2008 11:24 AM (GMT -4) | | Shelldoll -Nowhere does this product say it is for obese people- this is from the product info - so there!
Scientists have identified specific biological mechanisms that cause aging people to gain weight… no matter how little they eat. The problem was that there was no way to circumvent the underlying factors that cause excess body fat… until now! As you are about to learn, gaining control over your body’s command signals is critical to maintaining a healthy weight.
Leptin is a hormone that tells our brain that we have consumed enough calories and can stop eating. Leptin also induces a process whereby fat stored in cells is broken down. As we age, our cells (including the appetite control center in our brains) become “leptin resistant.” This means that leptin is unable to effectively regulate body weight. | | Back to Top | | |
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SusanM
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 89
| Posted 12/31/2008 11:28 AM (GMT -4) | | | I know that everyone participating in this blog is interested in losing weight - and I am too. But perhaps more important is the dramatic change in the levels of glucose, cholesterol, LDL and CRP in the course of the study. As I have stated earlier, I am going to continue for the full 10 weeks, but I am also going to have the blood tests done to see if there are any changes in addition to weight. Actually, those numbers may be more important than weight loss. I had my baseline blood drawn in November and so I will see what happens in 10 weeks... | | Back to Top | | |
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gunfyter
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 40
| Posted 12/31/2008 2:14 PM (GMT -4) | | | Julie,
It really does say its for obese people with metabolic syndrome. Thats who it was tested on.
When describing how it works ... it shows levels of CRP, triglycerides, and leptin OUT of the normal range. After a few weeks these levels are reduced to normal levels. We see that in the data. After the blood chemistry changes to normal levels ... the data shows weight loss.
The article says no diet or excercise changes were required for the weight loss.... BUT it also states that they way Irvingia works is that when normal leptin levels are achieved ... Appetite is suppressed. We would assume people were eating less because of this.
IMHO There is NO WAY this stuff can reduce your weight if you eat the same amount of calories you ate before... and do not increase your excercise. It MUST work by causing you to eat less. No other way is possible.
If irvingia is not causing you to at less ... I do not see how it can work for you. Body-builders and other athletes who already are on calorie restricted diets ... perhaps this would make it easier to stick to the diet (appetite control) ... but if you eat the same amount ... there cannot be a greater change in weight.
So yes, this is for Fat people who overeat. I can see how the advertisement might lead people to focus on only the no excercise or dieting required statements ... but a closer look at how it works would reveal that less food intake is required.
Now maybe it won't work for overeating, fat people either -- but I have not given it enough time yet. | | Back to Top | | |
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Shelldoll
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 89
| Posted 12/31/2008 5:40 PM (GMT -4) | | JulieJ,
I think your posts say a lot about your intelligence when people offer you the truth...so now do tell since you say I'm ignorant and better than you cuz I'm obese....honestly that is SO rude! You are one of those people that judge obese people and care not for how we feel or what we go through. It makes me wish you could go through thryroid issues and then see how you feel when the shoe is on the YOUR foot! So please do tell this board....HOW MUCH DO YOU WEIGH?! You keep avoiding the question. I've seen those skinny people incessantly complaining to heavy people how fat they are and it is honestly SICKENING! | | Back to Top | | |
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Shelldoll
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 89
| Posted 12/31/2008 5:40 PM (GMT -4) | | Oh, and JulieJ,
Try reading the WHOLE article instead of picking bits and pieces that support your theory that it should work IMMEDIATELY on your your subjective obesity level of 7 lbs overweight while calling others ignorant and obese when they are telling you what the article said and why it probably isn't working on a thin person. | | Back to Top | | |
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SusanM
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 89
| Posted 12/31/2008 8:28 PM (GMT -4) | | JulieJ,
I suggest if you are that unhappy with the product and have stopped using it and have let us all know of your dissatisfaction with LEF, attacking LEF on how to conduct studies up to YOUR standards, and have called others on on the blog ignorant, please just send back your unused bottles and let the rest of us go on with our experiences taking the Integra-Lean. There is really no point in repeating how unhappy you are. We know it did not work for you. You gained weight. You are extremely disappointed. OK we got it. When the 10 weeks are up for the rest of us then there will obviously be more input and we shall see if it has worked for others or not. The studies are there for everyone to read and some of us are actually intelligent enough to decide for ourselves if the data is sufficient or not. | | Back to Top | | |
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SusanM
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 89
| Posted 12/31/2008 8:28 PM (GMT -4) | | | JulieJ - Also, my son just went through 6 months of chemo for Hodgkins. The gold standard of the chemo combo he was treated (ABVD) with was discovered and developed by Italian scientists. It has been in place since the 1970s. There are excellent scientists and chemists world wide and to say that the US is better in this field is so far out of wack it really doesn't deserve a response. The Germans, the French, Italians and Japanese are so far ahead of us in science and math it is disgusting. We just like to believe we are the leaders in everything and unfortunately we no longer are. | | Back to Top | | |
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DragonflyPR
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 30
| Posted 12/31/2008 8:29 PM (GMT -4) | | JulieJ- You made me laugh trying to stick me up your titles. My dear I do not care for titles and it seems that I have more that you do. You should be ashamed of not respecting other people's intellect, intelligence and good nature. Your attitude toward others is of total disrespect! You are a representation of what constitutes an Ugly American! Yes the same ones that have caused us a bad name and a bad reputation worldwide. This product is working for many people, if it did not work on you it is because you are in the group that did not experience change. It could have happened to me instead of you and I would have accepted it. I am sorry that it did not work for you and I am very sorry for your disrespect toward others just because of race, country or origin. Please if you want respect, respect others.
Finally I stand 100% behind what I previously said,
"Did you know that Japanese translate all scientific studies across the world into Japanese? Did you know that the US hardly looks into non English published scientific studies? That is one of the reasons why Japan's economy have grown so much during the past. Also, it is the may component of their constant and never ending technological inovation. If you get success in Africa or in Spain, or in Brazil or in Russia it does not matter. What really matters is that success could be replicated anywhere in the world. If an African discover something and published it then we can pick it up and continue its development or even use it as it is. America is in trouble mainly because they (I am an American) have not respected or given its due respect toward many communities in the whole world. A Human Being is a Human Being. An intelligent scientist can happen in any place in the world! A discovery can come from anyplace in the world. So please lets open our minds and do not subestimate knowledge that just happened beyond our frontiers."
I congratulate Life Extension for going out into the world and reach new knowledge and bringing it to us! That is the right way of doing things especially when you have pharmaceutical companies trying to buy the FDA and the Congress in order to stop us from adjusting our hormones and using amino acids and God knows what else. Pharmaceutical companies, the FDA, and many health professionals will rather keep us sick than curing us. Financially, sickness is better for all of them! And patents is another part of the story. | | Back to Top | | |
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