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The Life Extension Foundation Forums > LEF Public Forums > Dietary Supplements > The Merits of 7-Keto DHEA  Forum Quick Jump
 
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Transpower
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   Posted 8/20/2010 11:08 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've been on 50 mg of 7-Keto DHEA since 2003....but hadn't bothered to reexamine the dosage.  I checked my LEF blood tests from 2001 to 2010 and noticed that DHEA-S has gradually gotten lower, and that my TSH has gradually risen.  Duh!!!  Unfortunately, in May, I went to a conventional physician and he suggested going on Synthroid or Armour thyroid hormone.  I decided on Armour.  Bad mistake!  My various supplements began to lose effectiveness and even my one prescription drug, Doxepin (20 mg for a deep sleep) stopped working.  I immediately got off the thyroid hormone.  And, boy, was that not nightmarish....
 
I reread everything I had from LEF and decided to double the dosage of 7-Keto DHEA to 100 mg in two divided dosages (LEF says this could be increased to 200 mg in two divided dosages, if necessary, but I don't want to go too high).  I changed brands of 7-Keto DHEA from Puritan's Pride (because it had soy) to Enzymatic Therapy (with no soy).  I also reduced my kelp intake from 750 mcg to 250 mcg in two divided dosages (previously I had been taking 3 Solgar tablets--because it made me feel good, but my new research showed me that this was a bad idea, as well).
 
I'm now "cooking with gas."  I feel like dancing, riding my bike, and rowing like never before.  It's pretty amazing, actually.  I plan to taking another bloodtest in September to verify T3 and T4 levels, but I'm pretty sure everything is fine now.
 
Note:  another supplement which raises T3 is L-tyrosine.  I tested this back in 2003 and recently.  But it has a big problem:  it causes a spike in T3 and then a crash!  Bad, very bad.  7-Keto DHEA provides a smooth, steady level of T3, so I recommend that instead.
 
I sure hope this post helps someone avoid having to go through with what I've just gone through.
 
 

Post Edited (Transpower) : 8/20/2010 12:52:20 PM (GMT-4)

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scottie99
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   Posted 8/23/2010 6:49 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
good info transpower thanks for posting.
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Transpower
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   Posted 8/24/2010 6:05 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Update: I've had to add another 25 mg of 7-Keto DHEA at night, as I was getting chilly after 9:00 p.m. So, now the 7-Keto DHEA routine is: 50 mg at 7:00 a.m. (or whenever I rise); another 50 mg at 11:00 a.m. (or before lunch); then the final 25 mg at 9:00 p.m. or so. (This is still considerably less, in total, than the 200 mg advised by LEF.) I take 125 mcg of kelp at 7:00 a.m. and another 125 mcg of kelp at 3:00 p.m. My SAM-e is working properly, again (I take 400 mg at 7:00 a.m., 11:00 a.m, and 3:00 p.m.). The 20 mg of Doxepin at night is positively working to give me the deep sleep I find that I absolutely have to have; none of the OTC sleep aids I've tried work very well (although melatonin initiates sleep, it doesn't keep you asleep). I really wish someone had told me beforehand that there was a conflict between Armour (or Synthroid) and Doxepin.
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Transpower
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   Posted 9/6/2010 11:19 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Update:  Unfortunately I had another "iodine crash" last night, similar to the one I had when I was taking Armour Thyroid.  I have therefore decided to stop taking extra kelp; I checked the Solgar Kelp bottle again--one tablet contains 225 mcg of iodine (not 250) but I had forgotten to add in the amount in my multiple (75 mcg, GNC Ultra Mega Gold for Men Without Iron--I just take one of these, not two, because I take so many other specific supplements, many from the LEF).  So, I was, in fact taking a total of 300 mcg of iodine, which is considered to be right at the upper limit.  Anyway, it's clearly way too much for me now, so I will just consume the amount that's in the multiple, 75 mcg.  It's curious, though, that when I was taking just 50 mg of 7-Keto DHEA a day, taking three whole tablets of Solgar Kelp (675 mcg + 75 mcg) didn't cause any "iodine crash."  Therefore, the higher doses of 7-Keto DHEA must poteniate the iodine in some fashion.  Ditto for the Armour Thyroid.

For the past few days I've been taking 150 mg (in divided doses) of 7-Keto DHEA (Enzymatic Therapy) and have not had any more chills.  I purchased a bottle of the 100 mg 7-Keto tablets from LEF (because it's beginning to be a bit of a nuisance taking so many 25 mg tablets) but haven't started to use them yet as I want to get stabilized on the right amount of iodine.  Because I've been on the same GNC multiple for many, many years, the 75 mcg should be very safe with the higher doses of 7-Keto DHEA.

I sure hope that this thread helps other LEF members get through thyroid difficulties.  cool

 

 

 

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Transpower
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   Posted 10/25/2010 10:17 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Update:  The saga continues.  During much of September I took 200 mg/day of 7-Keto DHEA.  I got down to approx. 190 lbs., 24 lbs. less than what I originally was at, 214 lbs.  I increased my weekday morning workout from 1/2 hour to 1 full hour--2000 rowing strokes on the rowing machine, 4 exercises with the TotalTiger abdomen unit, 6 exercises with the NordicTrack isokinetic strength training system, and 1500 steps on the ladder-climber.  I cut my weekly grocery bill in half; my appetite got thoroughly suppressed.

However, I then began to suffer from insomnia, which then caused anxiety.  So then I began to take GABA to calm me down--this supplement, oddly enough, also helps with weight loss and appears to convert fat to muscle.  But, after some careful thought (in mid-October), I decided it was time to cut back on the 7-Keto DHEA.  I reduced the dosage to 150 mg/day, then 100 mg/day, then 75 mg/day, and the anxiety and insomnia have abated--mostly.  The 75 mg/day is still 50% more than what I used to take. 

But: at 75 mg/day of 7-Keto DHEA I began to get chilly again, so I decided to increase the kelp from 75 mcg in the multiple (taken when I get up) to a total of 300 mcg (1/2 Solgar tablet at 2:00 p.m., and another 1/2 at 8:00 p.m.). 

Is this the final "titration"?  I really don't know.  7-Keto DHEA seems to work mostly on metabolism;  kelp seems to work mostly on body temperature.  It's the ratio of the two that seems to count and has to be accurately determined.

If there's a biochemist in the house, please chime in.

 

 

 

 

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Transpower
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   Posted 10/28/2010 8:07 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
At 75 mg/day of 7-Keto DHEA I went "dark"--as in a depression. So I'm now back up to 125 mg 7-Keto DHEA plus 1/2 kelp per day plus the iodine that's in the multiple--for a total of 187 mcg. This is exhausting figuring this out. I also have to take more Doxepin and a prescription anti-depressant now to get out of this situation.

I now know that if I go below 125 mg 7-Keto DHEA I wind up in a depression. If I go higher I get anxiety. This is a multi-dimensional search for the optimal titration of several supplements and prescriptions.
 
Oops--right after this post I got the chills again and had to take another 1/2 kelp tablet.  I sure am sensitive to dosage levels!  I then called LEF and talked to a Health Advisor.  She gave me a link to suitable physicans in my area to see what else should be considered, perhaps Cytomel.

Post Edited (Transpower) : 10/28/2010 10:26:03 PM (GMT-4)

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