| The Life Extension Foundation Forums > LEF Public Forums > Lifestyles > methionine restriction, mitochondrial ROS and longevity | Forum Quick Jump
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Tom.
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1245
| Posted 4/16/2009 8:04 PM (GMT -4) |   | http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/20/8/1064
"... This suggests that the decrease in methionine ingestion can be the single molecular component responsible for the decrease in mitochondrial ROS generation and oxidative stress that occurs during caloric restriction, and thus for part of the decrease in aging rate elicited by this dietary manipulation."
Methionine is a nutritionally essential amino acid and plays an important role in the body. I'm wondering how restricting methionine could be possible or even safe. What is the bigger picture of this recent data other than restricting methionine? One theory I suggest could be heating of methionine as well as other amino acids at high temperatures (i.e. heterocyclic amines and acrylamide) and the increase of mitochondrial ROS generation. Typical foods high in methionine normally cooked at lower temperatures or eaten raw such has beans, lentils, garlic, onions and seeds for example, might contain a less damaged or negatively altered methionione than in cooked meats or even worse, incorrectly prepared meats. I think a study comparing raw vegan diet verus cooked omnivore diets both high in methionine would help us to understand if it is methionine or the type of methionine that causes this. Does anyone have any information about this they can add? | | Back to Top | | |
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DDye
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Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 422
| Posted 4/16/2009 8:09 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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Tom.
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1245
| Posted 4/17/2009 7:07 PM (GMT -4) | | Very interesting article. Thank you for that DDye. Yes I was just reading some new published data (2009) about protein restriction but they also said that perhaps it's the methionine and not necessarily protein itself.
But isn't SAMe basically a form of methionine? I read very positive things about SAMe. In fact from most of the research It appears to be a "must include" supplement. But now all this negative stuff about methionine.
What was also interesting in that LEF article were these points:
"...To maximize our longevity, we need to find a way to have the benefits of caloric restriction without being constantly distracted by hunger ... Soluble fiber has been shown to decrease hunger ... Consuming fiber before meals can reduce the rapid absorption of simple carbohydrates and help decrease the post-meal surge in insulin."
I've been taking a new product by Nature's Way called Metabolic Reset. (http://metabolicreset.com). It's basically a combination of whey Isolate and a proprietary soluble fiber blend called Viscofiber: (http://www.viscofiber.com), which is basically oat beta-glucan concentrate, inulin (chicory root extract), xanthan gum, that becomes extremely viscous when in the stomach. It really does slow down the digestion of foods and and works well to keep hunger away for hours allowing to consume less calories without the nag of hunger.
Is Life Extension's CocoaGold with beta-glucan work the same way as Viscofiber? For example does it become very viscous when ingested to slow digestion of foods? If so this is great because It could be added to juices to slow the digestion and help prevent the rapid rise in blood sugar. Also do you think a product like this could take a high glycemic food and essentially make it a much lower glycemic food? | | Back to Top | | |
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DDye
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Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 422
| Posted 4/17/2009 7:08 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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SpainEurope
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 709
| Posted 4/20/2009 10:36 AM (GMT -4) | | I don't agree with that protein restriction is healthy, although it depends what you call calorie restriction. Nobody should consume less than 25% of his calories from protein. All our bodies are protein, no carbs!!
And one thing is clear, a diet high in carbs increase insulin and glucose, which drives to break down correct hormonal function.
Your bones, tissues, skin...are PROTEIN. I believe people should consume good sources of protein, but not to restrict it with less than 25% as I said. For me the opposite has no any sense if you see the general picture of antiaging medicine and nutrition. | | Back to Top | | |
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SpainEurope
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 709
| Posted 4/20/2009 11:23 AM (GMT -4) | | Yeah, protein is bad in excess, as fats or carbs. But good protein in moderation is essential for a good insulin response. Protein stimulates glucagon, the anti-insulin hormone.
And at the end Joslin Diabetes Center of Harvard Medical School (the most famous medical center of diabetes around the world) recommends a diet composed by:
40% Good carbs
30% Lean protein
30% Good fats
This is essentially a mathematical definition of an antiinflamatory meal. | | Back to Top | | |
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DDye
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Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 422
| Posted 4/20/2009 11:25 AM (GMT -4) | | | Have you encountered any sources that state that protein is "bad" or unhealthy? | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom.
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1245
| Posted 4/20/2009 1:58 PM (GMT -4) | | I for one have not encountered any information that says protein per se is bad.
However, what we have to understand here is that it is not protein (and even healthy fats for that matter) either from vegetable or animal sources that are attributed to aging, but it is the oxidation of proteins and fats linking oxygen free radicals with aging. Coming from either source, protein is nothing more than amino acids. BUT, and this is the key we have to understand is that in this modern day we have an ever growing rate of protein and fat oxidation in our diets. Think processed foods, connivence foods, and moreover our selection of quality proteins and cooking methods. Certain fats for example should really never be heated at high temperatures.
Let me just take a quick detour here and say I was a vegan and then ovo-lacto vegetarian for ten years so I could see changes in my own body in regard to a animal and non-animal source amino acids in my diet. One of the things that I believe which tend to make vegetarians appear to age slower is not the fact that they don't eat animal protein, but their source of amino acids mostly have not undergone the deleterious effects of severe amino acid degradation and subsequently endogenous oxidation. They tend to consume a lot more antioxidant rich foods. Also, vegetarian versus a non health conscience meat eater would tend to eat less processed foods, again limiting the exposure to amino acid degradation in the diet. The other fact is that a vegetarian diet it would be almost impossible to consume excess amino acids unless one is glutton and eats constantly.
Protein and amino acids are not bad. A person consuming animal protein can live a long, healthy disease free life it's just the choices one makes is critical. Organ meats for example appear to not develop dangerous HCA's levels when exposed to grilling, frying etc., but muscle meat needs to be prepared differently. Heating or pasteurization of milk appears to have produce no HCA's, but in the process of making cheese or whey amino acids do degrade.
As far as methionine or any other amino acid for that matter the more I study about this the more I believe it is the over-consumption and the deterioration of the amino acids and oxidative damage caused that is the key not amino acids or protein themselves.
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Tom.
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1245
| Posted 4/21/2009 10:35 AM (GMT -4) | |
I got a reply from the advisory:
"Our CocoaGold with Beta Glucan (#01285) is a high-fiber chocolate-flavored supplement that will slow the assimilation of carbohydrates, thereby giving them a lower glycemic index." | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
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Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 1049
| Posted 12/7/2009 10:48 AM (GMT -4) | |
Tom said.......... I think a study comparing raw vegan diet verus cooked omnivore diets both high in methionine would help us to understand if it is methionine or the type of methionine that causes this. Does anyone have any information about this they can add? ....
It is a very interesting problematics. Thank you for pointing it out. I have no reply but I am studying it as related to the other problem of high homocysteine for which I tried, w/o much success, supplementation of folic acid, B12 and TMG affecting the remethylation path of homocysteine but leaving the transulfuration path (methionine oxidation) unchanged.
There is a lot on the web, maybe you can also check the discussion on the imminst forum:
I also checked in books, e.g.:
Maybe (??) one way to reap both benefits of methionine restriction for longevity and lowering homocysteine for CVD, cancer etc.. would be to reduce methionine oxidation as you seem foresee (can supplementing with cysteine help?). You teach me oxidation is the culprit in many conditions, e.g. see oxidation of cholesterol, not cholesterol itself.
Sorry if this confuses discussion even more! Post Edited (albedo) : 12/7/2009 11:51:14 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
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Total Posts : 1049
| Posted 12/20/2009 8:53 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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Tom.
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1245
| Posted 12/29/2009 10:24 PM (GMT -4) | | Thanks for posting that.
They list foods high in methionine such as beans, lentils, garlic, onions. These are all foods my mother loves and has been eating in high quantities and frequently all her life. She is in her 70s and is mentally sharp as a tack. Her blood work is great and she is not taking any supplements to counteract high homocysteine either. Based on this real human example it's hard for me to totally believe the result of this mouse study is the same for humans. | | Back to Top | | |
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