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John Abdo
     
Date Joined May 2008
| Posted 3/1/2009 1:36 PM (GMT -5) |   | I'm not a doctor, but I am uniquely educated in this area, so please regard this as a caring friendly exchange or an opinion you can decide to ask your doctor about.
It seems that the lack your results from drug use, and the other product you used from LEF, might just be telling you that something else is causing your challenges. Please obtain a complete urological exam beyond the prostate, including circulatory checks and nerve flow, even any compression in the spinal region. Do you smoke? Are you overweight? Have you had any back injuries? These are some of the barrage of questions you should ask yourself, and ask your doctor too. I have seen many men complain about these types of issues who are treating either the symptom or the wrong cause. Prostate issues can also be caused by lack of testosterone or perhaps from an elevation of other (unhealthy levels of) hormones. The sciences are advancing, you just need to know where to look and, more importantly, what to ask your physician. | | Back to Top | | |
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kaypeeoh
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 252
| Posted 3/2/2009 5:37 PM (GMT -5) | | I'm taking Standard Lignan, saw palmeto and Pygeum, all ordered from LE. Also 5g of Vit D, 3g of fish oil and Vit C. I don't smoke, drink or use drugs. My last physical says I'm healthy for a 52yr old. BP 100/55. I'm the same weight I was as a fullback in high school. On top of the nightime peeing, my libido has been poor for a long time. I had a testosterone check and was normal. I understand from reading The Testosterone Syndrome by Shippen that estrogen could be a factor.
kaypeeoh | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 664
| Posted 3/3/2009 5:22 PM (GMT -5) | | | I was prescribed tamsulosin (Flomax) a couple of years ago but did not follow as I wanted to try first a more natural approach. I have mild symthoms of BPH (I am 54) and I am now one month into the therapy with 0.4mg/d tamsulosin (after evening meals). I am tolerating well and flow clearly increased. I am also supplementing with basically what you are taking as I consider important to cool potential inflammation. The main reason I agreed with the prescription is because I wish to reduce an importat PVR Post Void Residual and supplementation was not effective. I posted elsewhere on PVR (http://forum.lef.org/pr.aspx?f=41&m=56121). Because of BPH I am cautious on DHEA and Testosterone and always look (and often struggle) for open medical advise; but I think you cannot self treat blindly in this area. I will post PVR results. | | Back to Top | | |
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John Abdo
Date Joined May 2008
| Posted 3/3/2009 5:24 PM (GMT -5) | | For all you guys with prostate concerns, here's a clip out of my upcoming book that you might find interesting.
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Prostate Medications: There’s a long list of medications your doctor may prescribe to men who are in experiencing an enlarged prostate, or any type of prostatic irregularities. The following is a list of some of the drugs commonly prescribed for the prostate. Some are used to manipulate hormones, others designed to decrease swelling or inflammation, and others still are used to fight infection. Please be aware the most, if not all, of these drugs have been shown to have negative interactions with other medications, while posting a host of negative, and common, side effects that include loss of libido, erectile dysfunction and oligospermia (sperm deficiency).
Avodart, Bactrim, Cardura XL, Casodex, Cipro, Doryx, Erythromycin, Eulexin, Flomax, Floxin, Hytrin, Lupron Depot IM, Macrodantin, Minipress, Nilandron, Penicillin V Potassium, Prednisone, Premarin, Proscar, Striant Bucl, Tetracycline, Uroxatral, and Zoladex. | | Back to Top | | |
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kaypeeoh
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 252
| Posted 3/3/2009 6:13 PM (GMT -5) | | My only complaint with Flomax is after one month of use it hasn't helped. I have enough medical knowledge to know the doctor will probably prescribe it anyway at an increased dosage. I haven't taken any of the drugs on John's list. I hate to self-diagnose but I still think the problem is hormonal. If not sex hormones, possibly adrenal. The main reason of thinking so is the fact that flomax hasn't been effective. Flomax essentially relaxes the urethra. The urethra can spasm from inflammation and the drug is effective at relaxing the spasms. So possible my problem is not inflammation.
My one-month checkup is tomorrow. Hopefully the doc will listen to my concerns.
kaypeeoh | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 664
| Posted 3/6/2009 2:13 PM (GMT -5) | | | kaypeeoh, I will also need to make my one months check after tamsulosin next week and wonder how it went for you. I am afraid my doc will also suggest in my case to continue, maybe increasing dosage, depending on PVR condition etc. | | Back to Top | | |
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kaypeeoh
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 252
| Posted 3/6/2009 2:47 PM (GMT -5) | | The doc decided I don't need to take flomax anymore. Now he's starting over. I'm scheduled for bladder ultrasound on Monday. If that doesn't give him an answer, then a bladder endoscopy. My wife keeps suggesting I try a different doctor. A friend of hers was seeing this doctor and was diagnosed with bladder cancer. He removed the bladder and sent the guy home to live with a urostomy bag. The friend found another doctor who was able to make him a new bladder from a section of intestine. Five years later he's never been happier. That's the guy my wife wants me to see.
kaypeeoh | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 664
| Posted 3/6/2009 4:37 PM (GMT -5) | | | Thank you for your reply. Good luck with the choice of your doctor. I know it can be a struggle sometime but second or even third opinion is always good when conditions are serious. Also, it is very good to undergo ultrasound. I always try to get a copy of the pictures for my files as I feel health is mine first ! Take care ! | | Back to Top | | |
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kaypeeoh
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 252
| Posted 3/24/2009 10:41 AM (GMT -5) | | I had bladder ultrasound a few days ago. It showed the prostate enlargement. It also showed that my bladder volume is 900ml when painfully full, and still held 400ml after voiding. So part of the problem is due to urine retention.
Then yesterday I had endoscopy. With the little camera I watched the catheter entering the prostate and saw how tightly it fit. Then in the bladder I saw how irritated the bladder walls were. Then the camera looped around and I could see the catheter coming through the prostate, which was bulging into the bladder. According to the doc, all typical of BPH. Although he hasn't seen it this severe in someone my age (52).
He handed me a prescription for Proscar. In doing a net search I've found things I don't like about it. The pamphlet says 2% develop erectile disfunction. The net search says more like 50%. I asked for blood work to check free testosterone and estrogen. In Shippen's book, The Testosterone Syndrome, he says much mid-life problem can be related to an imbalance between estrogen and testosterone.
In my search I also found suggestions that Cialis can help the voiding problem. The doc rolled his eyes when I asked about it but I'm willing to buy it online just to see. I'd also like to try testosterone if it turns out the imbalance is there. | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 664
| Posted 3/24/2009 10:41 AM (GMT -5) | | | Had my consultation. Decision I agreed on is to go for another 2 months with tamsulosin. Not huge changes to report after 1 month therapy, maybe a slight improvement on PVR at 200mL, flow is better. | | Back to Top | | |
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kaypeeoh
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 252
| Posted 3/24/2009 1:57 PM (GMT -5) | | PVR is what's still in the bladder after peeing? 200 isn't so bad. The doc said 100 in normal. For me it's nearly 400. Yesterday I had blood drawn for testosterone, free testosterone and estradial testing. I'm in a rural area so I expect it will take a while for results.
Last night I took 50mg of viagra before bedtime, half the amount I took the night before. And again I slept all night without trips to the bathroom. That's two nights in a row.
I talked to my dad yesterday. He had prostate cancer about 10 years ago. He told me his dad had it too. So odds are it will happen to me.
I haven't started taking Proscar. It may be trivial, but I'd rather not take it because once I start using it, I can't donate blood any more. I've donated blood every two months for 25 years, ever since my wife was diagnosed with cancer. She was a regular donator before her bout with cancer. But she can't donate either because of that. | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 664
| Posted 3/25/2009 11:42 AM (GMT -5) | | kaypeeoh, thank you for posting.
Again my general recommendation is not to self treat in this area and find a good doctor, possibly open to integrative approaches. I am not doctor either!
I agreed with my MD to take tamsulosin (Flomax, 0.4mg/d) and flow improved. PVR seemed also better (was about 350 mL, see my other post) but I think I need to at least reproduce the 200 mL after the 3 months.
I think Proscar acts via another channel (finasteride, 5-alpha-reductase) than Flomax which is an alpha-blocker. I am using the LEF formula together with tamsulosin because I wish to threat pharmacologically the PVR (Post Void Residue) but naturally the conversion of testosterone to DHT which should be blocked by finasteride, Saw Palmetto in LEF formula seems to act on both channels.
I read in LEF that if flow is lower than 10 mL/sec and PVR is > 100 mL recommendation is to treat but do not want to TURP now.
" .... Patients have significant urine obstruction (which is defined as urine flow of less than 10 milliliters per second (mL/s) and persistent residual urine of more than 100 mL. The patient’s physician may recommend a surgical procedure called transurethral resection of the prostate (TURP)"
http://www.lef.org/protocols/male_reproductive/benign_prostatic_hyperplasia_01.htm | | Back to Top | | |
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mannasage
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 20
| Posted 3/29/2009 1:19 PM (GMT -5) | | LEF has a distr relationship with EcoNugenics, the 6 formulas presently available are fine; but EcoNugenics does have a terrific prostate formula called Integrative Prostate Care PC, yes it's expensive; but if LEF picks it up, it w/b less expensive. I've had good luck with our Natural Prostate w/beta sitosterol, 5-Loxin & std. lignans, but the EcoNugenics formula has over 3X as many ingredients, it's like taking a multivitamin-with the prostate ingredients.
I've had good feedback from: Dave Tuttle about my suggestion.
Dept. of Correspondence
Life Extension Scientific Information, Inc. | | Back to Top | | |
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kaypeeoh
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 252
| Posted 6/6/2009 12:26 PM (GMT -5) | | Did you have a DRE? I worry that my doc isn't telling me the whole story. He wants me on Proscar and is unhappy that I'm not doing it.
kpo | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 664
| Posted 6/6/2009 5:40 PM (GMT -5) | | | Yes I had DRE (plus echography) several times incl. last visit approx. 3 months ago when we decided on the tamsulosin (e.g. Flowmax brand). Everything seems normal but the PVR (measured by echography). I hope we will find some improvement on that in the next visit. Will see ... in any case I do not feel at all to continue on medication. Tamsulosin was effective in improving the flow, but does it mean I need to take it for ever? Maybe I should try the EcoNugenics natural formula suggested above. | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 664
| Posted 6/16/2009 11:26 AM (GMT -5) | |
I posted on PVR=Post Void Residual elsewhere (http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=41&m=56121) but since there I am only replying to myself I decided to continue the discussion here as PVR seems also a symptomatic condition of BPH.
Tamsulosin (0.4 mg) was successful in improving flow (about 18% in the average flow which my doc said is in line with published results). This is based on measurements I did by myself.
However it seems also clear that once you stop it you return to the base line at least after the 3 months cycle I did. My doc retested PVR after about a month following me stopping the drug and found still too high at 400 mL. So, assuming there is no lasting benefit of the drug, or at lest lasting for 3 months, we could not really tell about the effect on PVR.
Notice that I continued also to use the LEF Natural Prostate formula for its Saw Palmetto extract for prevention (it seems the herbs can act on both channels, as an alpha-blocker like tamsulosin as well as a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor).
Also notice my PSA, prostate volume and DRE are normal. I also do not wake up at night.
Now I can either do nothing but using the preventive LEF formula (and I am concerned by possible problems with kidneys due to the PVR) or continue with the drug (which I hate) or find a more natural way.
After the PVR result, we decided to give a try for 6 months with the tamsulosin and retest PVR but still when under treatment. I hate this: if no result, they might propose to increase the dose. Should a positive result be there, then it will tempting to continue on mediation indefinitely. In a sense I would even consider a surgical act as alternative when judged necessary and when being confident to be in good hands.
I also decided to submit this case to a different doctor for a second opinion.
I wonder if anyone out there knows other methods to treat more naturally this condition. E.g. would any form of relaxation of lifestyle changes be really effective? Post Edited (albedo) : 6/19/2009 3:29:06 PM (GMT-4) | | Back to Top | | |
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kaypeeoh
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 252
| Posted 6/16/2009 11:38 AM (GMT -5) | | Three months on the LEF products, Saw Palmetto, Lignans and pygeum didn't do a lot. I still have to get up at 3AM. I quit the viagra experiment. The side effect of sinus congestion kept me up more than the peeing problem. I've read that the main component of saw palmeto and pygeum is beta sitosterol. So I ordered that alone from New Vitality. 1200mg beta sitosterol once daily. Just started it a few days ago so it's too soon to appreciate a difference.
kpo | | Back to Top | | |
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albedo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 664
| Posted 6/18/2009 11:51 AM (GMT -5) | | | | |
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kaypeeoh
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 252
| Posted 6/18/2009 11:51 AM (GMT -5) | | http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/index.html
Hola Albedo,
This website says there's little beta-sitosterol in saw palmetto. I don't know what the amount of beta-s would be in the extract.
kevin | | Back to Top | | |
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