The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.lef.org//default.aspx?f=35&m=22853
Posted By : generic - 1/10/2005 1:19 PM
HI EVERYONE:
 
HOW DOES ONE REVERSE THE GROWTH OF GREY HAIR?  I AM A 39 YR. OLD MALE.  I EXERCISE 4 TO 5 TIMES A WEEK (MOSTLY BODYBUILDING), I DON'T SMOKE AND DRINK ONLY SOCIALLY.  I WATCH MY DIET REGULARLY AS I LIKE TO STAY IN GOOD PHYSICAL SHAPE.   I HAVE A FULL HEAD OF DARK HAIR AND I WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. BUT I HAVE A SMALL GROUP OF GREYS SHOWING UP ON THE FRONT RIGHT PART OF MY HEAD.  I ALSO HAVE A SMALL GOATEE WICH IS NOW LOOKING SALT & PEPPER.  ARE THERE ANY FOODS WHICH WOULD REVERSE THIS PROCESS, OR STOP IT BEFORE IT GETS WORSE? freaked
-Roy Walford once stated that calorie restriction could slow down the graying of hair.  The anticancer drug Gleevec reversed hair depigmentation as a side effect in some people in a study reported in a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine.  Also, see Life Extension Daily News:  http://www.lef.org/news/LefDailyNews.htm?NewsID=1594&Section=AGING - Moderator

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 1/10/2005 4:27:29 PM GMT


Posted By : patricia379 - 1/17/2005 4:05 PM

Well for now, there seems to be no 'cure' for grey/ing hair.  It is genetic or caused by stress or being malnourished (that is why for most folks, caloric restriction isn't a good idea, as one has to provide their bodies with the needed nutrients to stay healthy while dropping calories drastically).  Besides who wants to eat almost nothing for life? eyes

There is a product called Melancore which purports to stop greying and restore color to hair . . . but I looked it up online and it costs about $50.00 a month and yes, there is a guarantee but with a catch: The producer and sellers of the product  say to take it at least 9 months for results and if it doesn't work they will refund a month's supply. Sneaky way to make allot of money for hopeful people. shakehead

My feeling is, if the product worked wouldn't we hear about it world wide??? It would be a major finding..so I have my doubts about it doing anything at all.

Who knows, stem cell research might come up with an answer far earlier than predicted, as things are moving by leaps and bounds..and not all researchers phoo-phoo cosmetic results of their findings. (after all looking better = better living)

You'd best hit the hair color aisle at your local drug store to cover those greys for now. :wink:


Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 1/17/2005 7:17:35 PM GMT


Posted By : tintinet - 1/17/2005 4:47 PM
AFAIK, there ain't no reliable way to reverse gray hair. Rarely, gray hair repigmentation has been reported to occur in a number of circumstances and in association with a variety of supplements (HGH, spin-traps, PABA, etc.) but I've tried most of 'em and gotten little results also.

According to Dr. Peter Proctor, the best way to repigment one's hair is simply to dye it!

Posted By : dante_cubit - 1/18/2005 12:18 PM
Gary Null claimed that chlorophyll could reverse greying hair. Although I don't consider him the most reliabale source of information, he showed his hairline on a KCTS fundraising drive and claimed that his blading/greying had been halted/reversed. Maybe take a look in his books.

Hope this helps.

Posted By : Dennis James - 1/24/2005 12:58 PM
One great though to remove grey hair would be to use the following nutrients:
 
 
    smhair   1. Pantothenic acid
        2. PABA
        3. Brewers yeast
 
Take the recommended dosage of the PABA and the pantothenic acid and take 8 of the brewers yeast. 
 
Take them all daily! Watch what happens to your roots in a couple of months.
 
Hope this works for you.
 
Let me know!
 
Dennis James
Life Extension Member

Posted By : lei.talk - 2/2/2005 7:28 PM

Twice, by accident, my grey hair went away.

the first time
was when durk pearson recommended twinlab's dmae-h3.
within a couple of days,
my five-o'clock shadow was noticeably darker.

the second time
was when syntrax offered a new product: proxylon
i cut my hair every two weeks.
when I got out of the chair,
there was grey hair on the floor
and light-brown hair on my head.

a friend of mine tried the dmae-h3.
his goatee got darker,
later he decided that engaging in "cosmetic-behavior"
was "feminine" and he stopped.

Post Edited (lei.talk) : 6/10/2006 5:57:56 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : zorba990 - 2/3/2005 6:34 PM

I have been using a traditional chinese herbal formula in this regard  (Not just Ho Shou Wu but the orgininal formula that includes several herbs).  It seems somewhat effective but I have not achieved a full reversal.  The last time I tried DMAE it seemed to cause muscle cramps.  I've not tried PABA,but it seems worthwhile.  GH-3 was supposed to do this also.

There is definately a copper connection, but I dont think anyone has worked it out completely.  You can't just megadose on regular copper or you will get real sick.  There are some folks that talk of an ORMUS form of copper, but no hard science behind it yet.

- Am wondering about a tyrosine connection too.  Tyrosine is necessary for melanin formation and Gleevec, which reversed gray hair in some people who used it, is a tyrosine kinase inhibitor.  How does it work?- Moderator

 

lei.talk said...

generic,

Twice, by accident, my grey hair went away.

The first time was when Durk Pearson recommended DMAE-H3.  Within a couple of days  my five-o'clock shadow was noticeably darker.

The second time was when Syntrax offered a new product: Proxylon.  I cut my hair every two weeks.  When i got out of the chair, there was grey hair on the floor and light-brown hair on my head.

A friend of mine tried the DMAE-H3.  His goatee got darker, later he decided that engaging in "cosmetic-behavior" was "feminine" and he stopped.


Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 2/3/2005 4:37:45 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : alfax - 2/3/2005 8:12 PM
Iis there any conclusive evidence of any significant link between HGH levels and gray hair?

Is there any evidence that clorophyll can reverse gray hair? In what book or writing Gary Null says that?

Can stem cell treatment in 10-20 years reverse gray hair by substitution of "old" melanocites by new ones?

Posted By : zorba990 - 2/9/2005 2:17 PM
Here is something interesting:

http://www.geocities.com/fricker3/ev/ev.html

The site is about vitiligo, which is a condition marked by depigmented areas
on the skin. While vitiligo is not gray hair, I think that there is at least a possbility
that the mechanism of depigmentation may be similar.

Since there are some success stories listed there, using DMAE-H3 topicaly, it
seems like it might be worthwhile to investigate this. It should be fairly easy to
rub a bit into a graying area and see if it makes a difference.

My recommendation would be to do this before retiring in the evning since, as I
recall, DMAE smells like fish, though one message on the above-mentioned page indicates that the source for one company's DMAE-H3 is vegetarian. This is good since I've grown quite suspicious of fish-derived supplements, due to nearly universal contamination of farmed fish with mercury, PCBs and other nasty stuff.

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 2/9/2005 12:20:45 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : estella - 2/14/2005 4:07 PM
Wow. You are right. Sounds like it won't work. There is less biotin in this hair related supplement than most.
 
Thanks!

Posted By : zorba990 - 2/21/2005 2:34 PM

Seems DMAE may not only affect coloring,but also have a possible use in maintaining/restoring hair growth:

http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=AU6720600&CY=gb&LG=en&DB=EPD

(The above patent was talked about in a USENET posting)

It's interesting that for many people, the areas that begin to to gray first are also the same areas where people first lose some hair.  Of course this may have something to do with circulation to that area, oxidation due to UV exposure, or hormones.....


Posted By : zorba990 - 3/1/2005 4:28 PM
SOD compound protects against graying:
 
Interesting study using an SOD compound in a gel:
 

Protective Effect of Superoxide Dismutase Against Hair Graying in a Mouse Model
Issn: 0031-8655 Journal: Photochemistry and Photobiology Volume: 80 Issue: 3 Pages: 579-582
Authors: Emerit, I., Filipe, P., Freitas, J., Vassy, J.
DOI: 10.1562/0031-8655(2004)080<0579:PEOSDA>2.0.CO;2 
 

The (above) looks to be something that could easily be incorporated into a scalp gel (aloe or liposome carrier).

 

Here is a source: http://www.youngagain.info/cgi-bin/product.cgi?id=1853 

although I would prefer to see a spray from LEF so we would know that the amounts were correct, assay etc.  Anyone know anything about the above company?

 

Post Edited (zorba990) : 3/5/2005 8:03:02 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : PharmaSurvivor - 3/3/2005 7:39 PM
I have read somewhere that ashwagandha can restore hair colour, but I have been using it for about a year for other
purposes and haven't seen any grey going away.

Posted By : functionmed - 3/25/2005 4:12 PM
Description
Gray hair involves a change in hair color from its normal color to gray. Hair is regarded as prematurely gray when 50% of scalp’s hair has changed its color to gray by the age of 40.

Biology of gray hair
Gray hair occurs when the melanocytes in the scalp die, causing the manufacture of melanin (the chemical that is responsible for normal hair color) to cease:

- Gray hair contains very few melanocytes in the hair bulb, leading to the production of fewer melanosomes and those melanosomes that are produced contain less melanin than non-gray hair.

These substances retard the onset of or reverse gray hair:
Auxins
Dihydroxyl-5,6-indole (applied topically) reverses gray Hair. This occurs via dihydroxyl-5,6-indole functioning as a precursor molecule for the production of melanin via a slow oxidation process. This compound is not yet commercially-available.

Hormones
There are many (reliable) anecdotal reports claiming that human growth hormone (hGH) replacement therapy has restored normal hair color to gray hair.

Minerals
Gray hair can occur as a result of calcium deficiency.
Copper supplementation sometimes delays the onset of gray hair (due to its role in the production of melanin). research
Zinc deficiency may cause premature gray hair:
Some contradictory reports state that zinc has no effect on the onset of gray hair.

Pharmaceutical drugs
Imatinib Mesylate reverses gray hair (however this use of Imatinib Mesylate is impractical as this drug causes many toxic side effects). peer-reviewed research

Pigments
Melanin can be encapsulated within liposomes and applied topically to the scalp in order to deliver melanin to the cells of hair follicles where it is then utilized endogenously to "pump" melanin which is responsible for hair color back into otherwise gray hair.

Vitamins
Biotin delays the onset of gray hair and may retard the further progression of gray hair. research
Folic acid helps to prevent gray hair.
Inositol has a protective effect on Hair Follicles and via this protection of hair follicles it sometimes prevents or halts the progression of gray hair. research

Occasionally, (in approximately 10-25% of cases) para-aminobenzoic Acid (PABA) use causes gray or white Hair to darken toward its original color (very large dosages of 6-24 GRAMS per day of PABA are required to achieve this effect): research

- A trial undertaken in 1941 concluded that 200 mg of PABA per day for two months resulted in marked darkening of the hair in 30 patients afflicted with gray Hair.
- A trial undertaken in 1944 concluded that 200 mg of PABA combined with 100 mg of calcium pantothenate and 50 mg of Brewer’s yeast per day for eight months caused significant hair color change in only two patients out of 33 afflicted with gray Hair.
- A trial undertaken in 1964 concluded that administration of 6-24 grams of PABA per day for six weeks caused dramatic hair color change and hair regrowth in 5 patients out of 20 (i.e. 25%) with markedly gray hair (hair color returned to gray within three to four weeks of ceasing PABA treatment).

Gray hair is a symptom of vitamin B5 deficiency in rats (this finding does not necessarily extrapolate to humans, although there is scientific speculation that vitamin B5 may also prevent human graying of the hair - unfortunately no studies have yet been performed to refute nor confirm this claim). research

Synthetic substances in synergy

A blend of Retin-A combined with an (unspecified) alpha-hydroxy acid (applied topically to the scalp) is under investigation as a means of returning gray hair to its original color:

- This claim is made on the basis of reports from a New York dermatologist (Jim Baral) who claims to have restored his hair color to normal after accidentally smearing the mixture onto his scalp. His hair color remained normal one year after the incident.

Volatile oils
Eugenol (the principal active ingredient in cloves and clove Oil) (applied topically to the scalp) has been demonstrated to restore hair color (and may therefore be useful for the treatment of gray hair).

These herbs prevent, disguise or (possibly) reverse gray hair
Ashwagandha helps to prevent and treat gray hair (by increasing the melanin content of the hair). research
Eugenol (the principal active ingredient in cloves) (applied topically to the scalp) has been demonstrated to restore hair color (and may therefore be useful for the treatment of gray hair).
Fo-Ti (consumed orally) may reverse gray hair and restore hair color to its natural color. research
Ligustrum is used in China to prevent gray hair (its usefulness is based on folklore).
Sage (strong infusion of 100 grams in 500 ml of water) cosmetically disguises gray air.

These substances increase the risk of gray hair
Recreational Drugs
Tobacco smokers have a four times greater likelihood of gray hair compared to people who do not smoke tobacco. research

Gray hair may increase the risk of these ailments

Cardiovascular system
People with gray hair have been found to have an increased risk of heart attack compared to people without gray hair. research

Musculoskeletal system
Prematurely gray hair may be a warning signal for osteoporosis:

- Epidemiological studies link prematurely gray hair to increased risk of osteoporosis - researchers believe that the same genes that control early graying are the same as those that control bone density.

Over 74% of our society are said
to be zinc deficient.

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 3/25/2005 2:23:02 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : lei.talk - 3/28/2005 4:02 PM

functionmed-

thank you!

your post is the best example

of why i read the lef forum.

Post Edited (lei.talk) : 6/29/2005 5:48:49 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : Gus - 4/13/2005 2:24 PM
OK

Can someone summarize what would be the best try here?
I realize that any of these may or may not have limited success.

So, can someone list which ones may have the best chances of success?

Posted By : zorba990 - 4/13/2005 2:57 PM
I have been trying DMAE-H3 for the past 2 months and I do see some darkening of eyebrow hairs. Since the PABA in this formula is involved in copper metabolism, I still hold by my original assertion that this all has to do with copper.

This time the muscle cramping was much less severe (probably due to my high intake of magnesium) and passed within 2 weeks. I can now take a full dose no problem (10 drops). I am contemplating taking more ...

Posted By : lei.talk - 4/15/2005 3:34 PM
zorba990-
 
this is slightly off the topic,
but, as long as you are talking about
the muscle cramping caused by twinlab's dmae-H3...
 
feed it to your girlfriend.
you will love it.
so will she.
 
this may not be as "wholistic"
as building up her oxytocin levels
with diet and sexercise,
but, there is a more immediate effect. 

Post Edited (lei.talk) : 9/1/2005 9:10:23 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : alfax - 4/18/2005 6:18 PM
 
WHEN WILL AN EFECTIVE ANTI-GRAY HAIR PRODUCT BE COMERCIALIZED?
 
IS LEF DOING ANY RESEARCH IN THIS AREA?
 
I UNDERSTAND GRAY HAIR MAY NOT BE A PRIORITY IN ANTIAGING RESEARCH.
BUT AS A MEMBER OF LEF I (AND PROBABLY MANY THOUSANDS OF OTHER LEF MEMBERS) THINK THAT THE PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF GRAY HAIR (ON SELF ESTEEM AND WELL-BEING) SHOULD NOT BE UNDERESTIMATED AND GRAY HAIR DESERVES A LOT MORE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.
 
I CHALLENGE ALL OF LEFs MEMBERS WHO HAVE THIS CONCERN TO URGE LEF MORE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH IN THIS AREA.
- We understand your concern and would all love something that would prevent hair from graying, but you're right, it's not a priority.  At least the cause has been found http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/307/5710/720, so an effective treatment shouldn't be too far behind, given its blockbuster potential. - Moderator
 
 
 

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 8/24/2005 6:55:55 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : zorba990 - 4/19/2005 1:42 PM
One thing that would be interesting would be to study the hair of people
as they use ionic copper/zinc, ho shou wu, DMAE-H3, high dose PABA, etc and other things that seem to have worked some for some people and see if any of the above would cause the sudden reappearance of the MITF+ stem cells in those hairs.

The study makes it seem as though the process is inevitable and irreversible.
I suspect this is not true, and that the stem cell populations can be increased
given the right medium and circumstances (nutrients + stimulation).

I suspect that as time goes on we will realize that targeting nutrients and
antioxidants in new ways that saturate the cells (like using ingested and
topical liposomes) that oxidative damage that may be causing the stem cell
depopulation can be at least partially if not fully reversed.

Also, as we expand our paradigm to include energy medicine (electrical,
LLLT, etc) we may find that the use of specific frequencies and or energies
will be able to wake up regnerative capabilities that include repopulation of
stem cells. There is some interesting work being done with Xenon and nerve
cells in this regard. And to get even more off track, I suspect that the nature
of Xenon's regnerative capability in this regard will become more apparent
as physics is advanced (string / M theory is not quite there yet).

Whew! Nap time!

Posted By : alfax - 4/19/2005 7:21 PM
Has anyone tried MELANCOR?

I find hard to believe that this product works.

i wonder what LEF thinks about products like MELANCOR. It is sold in respectable sites like AMAZON and there's not one single scientific study backing it. AND IT'S QUITE EXPENSIVE.

CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS?
The ingredients are listed at http://www.melancor.com/html/faq.asp#117 You can put something together like this yourself and see what happens.  Most of it is B complex.  They say if it doesn't work after a year, it probably won't work for you. - Moderator

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 4/19/2005 6:25:38 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : taz - 4/21/2005 1:33 PM
 
  I know someone who is on metformin for diabetes, since three years, who restricts calorie intake and is regular on some exercise, and has drive, to achieve, whose grey hair has steadily turned jet black. Person's age is 55 years. Unfortunately all the rest of us do not have diabetes.

Posted By : dang - 5/2/2005 12:49 PM
by the way, i'm also aware that extensive use of wheatgrass juice can reverse gray hair. i'm currently using the chlorella supplements, but i will alternative between those and a 'greens' powder (such as www.greensplus.com ) for at least six months. i'm also waiting on a shipment of jiaogulan (gynostemma) tea to arrive, as it has been reported to have a repigmentation effect if used for several months. outside of that, it appears to be full of excellent health benefits anyway.

and i'm trying the proxylon stuff mentioned earlier - i do know that HGH has had some effects on graying, although poorly studied, and at the very least it'll give me a reason to get back in shape. as this is all just now becoming more well-understood scientifically, sometimes anecdotal evidence is all we have to go on, and one person's experience with the proxylon is enough for me to give it a shot. it's cheap.

Posted By : dang - 5/2/2005 12:50 PM
does anyone know anything about this stuff called HAIRBORN? (www.hairborn.com) it appears to work quite well for graying hair and sometimes for alopecia. on the website they don't go into the ingredients at all, so i contacted someone about it and here is the response i got:

"The public ingredients in Hairborn are: Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Ribloflavin (Vitamin B2), Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B5), Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Cyanocobalam (Vitamin B12), Zinc, Pangamic Acid (Vitamin B15), Cellulan (Levo Methionin), Campropan (Levo cistin), Ercatoplop (Levo ornitin), Bioflavonoid (Proantocianidinas), Dry extract Wang Flowers, Dry extract Ginseng, Dry extract Nigrun, Dry extract Root Showu, Artium Lappa, Idrocinan (Dihidrocinan), Chlorella, Serenoa Repens."

the stuff is horribly expensive ($189 for a month's supply), but i think it's intended as a relatively short-term treatment (ie. 2 years or less), and as you can see from the published photos, seems to work rather well on graying hair. i'm using a regimen now that includes melancor, chlorella, copper, sho wu, and a chinese herb formula that is based on polygonum, eclipta, ligustrum, mulberry, sesame seed, rehmannia, etc. - all of which are said to be great for the hair.

i think the key here is patience, as is could take a year or more with persistent treatment to see full results. but if what i'm doing now doesn't do the trick after about 8 months or so i'm going to give it a go with this hairborn stuff, cost be damned.

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 5/2/2005 11:53:29 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : ot03 - 5/2/2005 2:31 PM
I have seen strong claims by a top doctor that copper alone is enough to correct grey hair. I might not have taken him seriously except I saw his photo in the LEF magazine as an award recipient for some major scientific contributions to general medicine. Joel Wallach is the doctor's name he's best known for his book Dead doctor's don't lie ... and for his major emphasis on minerals as being the most important nutrient to consume in colloidal form.

Posted By : Amber - 5/9/2005 2:31 PM
yeah  Research has been done, and Help is on the way.  There is an antidote for reversing grey hair in the process of being patented as we speak.  I know
this because I have tried it, yeah!  
yeah  

Posted By : alfax - 5/9/2005 6:46 PM
AMBER U SURELY MUST BE JOKING.

EXPLAIN PLEASE WHAT "ANTIDOTE" U HAVE TRIED.

Posted By : Amber - 5/10/2005 4:27 PM
yeah  This is not a joke, for I well know that grey hair is not a joking matter.  I will get back with you in about three weeks when I will be granted permission to tell you.  Hang in there, grey hair can be reversed.  Check the post in about three weeks, ok.
yeah  

Posted By : alfax - 5/10/2005 6:48 PM
ASSUMING ITS TRUE:

WHEN WILL THIS "PRODUCT" BE COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE ?

WILL IT BE EXPENSIVE?

Posted By : dang - 5/11/2005 3:08 PM
amber -
how long does the product take to work?

Posted By : dang - 5/11/2005 3:08 PM
amber -
please don't forget to keep us posted.
thanks

Posted By : zorba990 - 5/11/2005 3:09 PM
I have been getting good results using DMAE-H3 orally along with
applying it topically. This is in addition to using a trditional Chinese herbal
formula. Topically the solution smells pretty bad though. I use 4 drops
DMAE-H3 with 4 drops Hydroderm and rub in.

I found a source for true SOD by the way, but have not yet purchased
any:

http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/23007/SLO1597

So DMAE-H3, Hydroderm, real SOD, and ionic copper topically
would comprise a good formula. If balding then add ionic tin, ionic zinc,
creatine phosphate and arginine as well. You could add Dr. Proctor's formula
but I find it (likely the NANO) much too irritating.

I have another ingredient and process that I add but this is a secret for now ...

Posted By : dang - 5/16/2005 6:50 PM
anyone ever tried erzhi wan? i'm taking the two herbs as part of a bigger mixture but haven't seen results yet. i haven't even been on it a month though. read more about it here: http://www.itmonline.org/arts/erzhiwan.htm .

Posted By : GOM - 5/16/2005 6:55 PM
My 2 cents on back to black.
 
What has slowly change my mustache hair and some of my side burns hairs back to black is vit B5, zinc and eating avocados every day. This change has been slow and occured over several months.
 
My far out theory is the production of melanin needs coenzyme A either as a ATP energy source or as a critical enyzamitic step in the production of melanin. Co-A is obtained via beta oxidation of fats which needs B5.

Posted By : biggarrison - 5/16/2005 7:03 PM
Which Chinese formula do you use?

Posted By : dang - 5/17/2005 5:52 PM
So do we have a guinea pig for the SOD spray?

Posted By : zorba990 - 5/17/2005 5:52 PM
The traditional Chinese Herbal formula for Gray Hair is called "Seven Treasure Special Pill for Beautiful Whiskers"

Radix Polygoni Multiflori (he Shou Wu) steamed in Black Sesame Seeds 300 g
Sclerotium Poriae Cocos (fu ling) 150 g
Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae (niu xi) 150 g
Radix Angelicae Sinensis (dang gui) 150 g
Fructus Lycii (gou qi zi) 150 g
Semen Cuscutae Chinensis (tu si zi) 150 g
Fructus Psoraleae Corylifoliae (bu gu zhi) dry fry with black sesame seeds 120 g

Preparation: Grind the ingredients into powder and form into 9 g pills with honey.
Dosage: One pill in the morning and one in the evening with warm salted water.

This formula should not be used by people who have the chinese diagnosis
of spleen deficiency. The formula may cause loose stools and should be halted
until stools return to normal.

(Source: Yi Fang Ji Jie)

I have never seen the _exact_ formula, preperation and all, outside of an acupuncturist's or oriental hebalist's. At the chinese herbalist, I have
seen the above formula in a kind of "I dream of Genie" looking bottle and that
is the one I used long ago before I got it from my acupuncturist.

Many times herbal companies will focus on one ingredient, or eliminate the
difficult or cumbersome portions of the preparation -- or even substitute cheaper
herbs for the ones specified. And, thus, the results are much poorer.

An enterprising organic US farmer and Chinese herbalist could make alot of
money by growing many traditional chinese herbs and properly preparing
them for use by acupuncturists. Even Herb Pharm makes frequent trips
to China to procure certain herbs that are just not available or do not grow
well in certain condidtions here in the US.

Chinese patent medicines, available at chinese herbalists, like this one,
http://www.thejamushop.com/hair.htm , have sometimes been found
to be contaminated with heavy metals due to the soil they are grown in.
So buyer beware.

Here is another good reference:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/hoshouwu.htm

Have fun!

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 5/17/2005 4:55:25 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : LeighDW - 5/23/2005 5:19 PM
Many people here have mentioned "DMAE H3", which is something of a misnomer, since DMAE and GH3, while very similar, are not the same. DMAE is often used in the United States as a substitute for Gerovital H3 which is banned by the FDA as a controlled drug. GH3 is superior and more bioavailable than DMAE. It has been proven since the fifties that GH3 can darken or restore greying hair to its original colour but it seems to be a very long process that takes months or even several years to see appreciable results.
 
Interestingly, GH3 breaks down in the body into DEAE (a similar metabolite to DMAE) and PABA. Ironically it is the PABA with the hair restoring power, not the DMAE/DEAE. As someone mentioned earlier, it was proved fifty years ago that PABA could have this effect, though the reason GH3 darkens grey hair much more effectively is that the procaine complex enables the PABA to enter into the cells more effectively than simply taking PABA alone. Unfortunately, due to the blinkered and corrupt FDA, you Americans might find that you have to carry on taking your "DMAE H3" supplements rather than being offered the real deal. 
 
-"DMAE H3" is a the name of a product, not a chemical name. The poster is correct in the assertion that the product is not GH3 nor does it contain both of its metabolites: DEAE and PABA.- moderator

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 5/23/2005 4:25:58 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : zorba990 - 5/24/2005 1:38 PM
"the procaine complex enables the PABA to enter into the cells more effectively than simply taking PABA alone"

And perhaps this effect also occurs with DMAE-H3 ...

Posted By : alfax - 5/24/2005 11:10 PM
I'VE LOOKED FOR DMAE-H3 IN LEF's catalogue but i couldnt find it.
 
IF ONE TAKES DMAE PILLS AND PABA PILLS TOGETHER does one get the same effects?  - Yes, whatever effects are elicited by DMAE and PABA, (which won't necessarily restore hair color) but pills are a less rapidly absorbed. - Moderator
 
What are the benefits and side effects of this combination of substances?
 
thanx
 
- High doses of DMAE can noticeably increase muscle tension, and can also result in a headache for this reason.  Some individuals have reported a fishy body odor, but that evidently depends upon one's own metabolism.- Moderator
 
 
 

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 5/24/2005 10:18:06 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : lei.talk - 5/25/2005 5:36 PM
i have always used twinlab's dmae-H3.
if your local health-food store does not have it in stock,
they will happily special-order it for you.
 
durk pearson and sandy shaw recommended this supplement
and i am glad that i took their advice.

Post Edited (lei.talk) : 9/1/2005 9:07:43 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : alfax - 5/26/2005 2:15 PM
SO TAKING DMAE PILLS AND PABA PILLS ISNT AS BENEFICIAL AS TAKING GEROVITAL GH3?

Posted By : Amber - 5/26/2005 2:17 PM
yeah  Hi, this is Amber.  The product that I spoke of that will reverse gray hair is very real, works in two to three weeks, and will not be expensive.  The reason that I don't speak very much about it in this thread is because I am the product inventor and according to the rules of this forum, I must be careful to not appear to be selling within the forum.  But, the patent has been filed and I will keep in touch with the forum as to when it will be available on the market.    
yeah  

Posted By : alfax - 5/26/2005 2:21 PM
What is considered a safe dosage of DMAE?
-People do well with 30-100 mg although some people take higher doses. - Moderator

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 5/26/2005 1:24:03 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : alfax - 5/26/2005 2:22 PM
LEF sells a variety of products from Twinlab. Why not DMAE-H3?
-It is available from Life Extension's store in Florida. - Moderator

Posted By : shakti - 5/26/2005 3:46 PM

Hello

can you explain what is amber ? ...herb...crystal...

How to find it? How much the cost?

Thanks



Posted By : korg - 5/26/2005 4:57 PM
Yes Amber, more information will be welcome. Where can we know more about your product?

Thanks a lot.

Posted By : lei.talk - 5/26/2005 5:42 PM
the patent has been filed
so, it is now safe (in the legal sense)
for you to tell us all about your creation.
 
first, what is the referencing information
at the patent office?
so that we can all look it up.

Post Edited (lei.talk) : 6/29/2005 5:50:50 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : alfax - 5/26/2005 5:55 PM
Why isnt DMAE-H3 in your catalogue? Can i buy it via internet?
- The store has a huge inventory and everything can't be added to the catalog.  Call the order department and ask about ordering it:  1 800 544 4440. - Moderator

Posted By : alfax - 5/26/2005 6:05 PM
CAN'T I CONTACT THE ORDER DEPARTMENT THROUGH E-MAIL?
 
-Yes. See http://www.lef.org/quest-com.html - Moderator

Posted By : alfax - 5/26/2005 9:37 PM
AMBER. SHOW US ONE SOLID PROOF THAT U R NOT JOKING.

Posted By : alfax - 6/5/2005 2:08 PM
Hello there.

I HAVE A SUGESTION FOR LEF's PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT:

TO MAKE AN AFFORDABLE SUPPLEMENT (ONE PILL A DAY WOULD BE NICE) SPECIALLY DESIGNED TO MAXIMIZE HAIR COLOUR AND QUALITY/HAIR GROWTH.

Some of the ingredients i suggest for this supplement: DMAE, PABA, INOSITOL, PANTOTHENIC ACID, B-COMPLEX VITAMINS, COPPER, ETC.

I'M SURE IT WOULD BE A BESTSELLER.
-Durk and Sandy have created Root Food http://lef.org/newshop/items/item00241.html but it is not designed to repigment hair. - Moderator

Posted By : alfax - 6/6/2005 4:47 PM
here are some QUESTIONs FOR OUR MODERATOR:

Is AMBER talking the true?

DOES LEF HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF any "antidote" for gray hair IN THE PROCESS OF PATENTING?

IF ITS TRUE, Will IT be sold by LEF?

THANX
 
1.  Unknown
2.  No
3.  Unknown
- moderator

Posted By : SoCalGal - 6/10/2005 4:39 PM
Here's an excerpt from a blog run by an immunologist.  Lots of good information there.
 
 
In the following article, scientists found that there are melatonin receptors on the hair follicles. This study was done in women, but the same science applies to men as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/queryd.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14996107 

Melatonin works in a number of ways. First, melatonin is a powerful antioxidant, and free radicals can definitely damage hair follicles. However, antioxidants per se do not induce hair regrowth or change hair color. Melatonin is specifically stimulating these changes. As we age, our ability to make melatonin decreases as our hair thins out and turns grey. Melatonin supplements can reverse these changes . . .

Melatonin can be applied directly to the scalp in large quantities. Melatonin is non-toxic in general, but this method of application is much better since it is targeted.

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 6/10/2005 3:42:28 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : zorba990 - 6/10/2005 5:53 PM
Good Find!

I've heard it's effective as a sunscreen also.  Any good liquid melatonins out there?

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 6/12/2005 10:16 PM
Grey-hair blues could fade away
June 20, 1997 London--HATE that grey? Desmond Tobin may be able to make it go away.
The Bradford University scientist has made a discovery that may mean one day people won't have to go grey, if they don't want to. And those already grey would be able to reverse the process . . . But don't cancel next week's touch-up appointment, or throw out the Grecian Formula. It could take a decade or two for Tobin's discovery to make it to a drugstore near you.
http://www.robertcraig.com/hairnews.html
 

Posted By : alfax - 6/12/2005 10:18 PM
hello there

I'VE FOUND A VERY, VERY INTERESTING PATENT (SEE US PATENT APPLICATION Nº20040170702 AT US PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE WEB SITE) DIRECTLY RELATED TO GRAY HAIR CORRECTION BY NUTRTIONAL MEANS.

PLEASE, PLEASE CHECK IT OUT! LOTS OF INTERESTING AND SCIENTIFICALY SOUND INFORMATION!

Posted By : korg - 6/12/2005 10:22 PM
What about Amber post? Too many days without any clue. We'll be waiting.

Posted By : Gus - 6/13/2005 3:28 PM
Back to the Melatonin,

Has this worked and is there a good liquid form available?

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 6/15/2005 9:12:59 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : nicky - 6/15/2005 10:12 PM
I would be very careful with "topical melatonin" if only for the reason that pure melatonin is very strong and (in some situations) related chemicals in high doses can act as poisons because they mimic other biologically active nerve chemicals like serotonin.

The highest dose of melatonin I've heard of being used was 10 mg (and this was to prevent cell death in 'blue babies' - it worked.)

I'd wait this one out until you see toxicology data ...

Posted By : greyboy - 6/15/2005 10:15 PM

Tthe patent refers to a product called recouler, which is a vitamin tablet containing:

copper, zinc, vitamin B12, folic acid, vitamin C and pantothenic acid.

This product is intended for vitiligo sufferers (depigmentation of skin) but has the ability to repigment hair as well.

On the website www.recouleur.com it makes an interesting point when it says not to consume dairy as dairy impairs copper absorption. Which could be the missing key to people who have supplemented with such vitamins before.

Recouleur seems quite cheap compared to others, only about $90 for a 6 month supply, which is quite reasonable compared to such rip offs as melancor and has larger quantities of vitamins in each tablet. Maybe a combination of recouleur and a DMAE supplement would be appropriate.

I am a 20 year old sufferer of grey hair and have been searching for a solution for probably a couple of months. I have tried melancor and it did very little if anything. I have had some results with a mens performance multivitamin which i have been taking for a month and contains similair vitamins to recouleur but in smaller doses. In my opinion this would probably be the most effective supplement around (recouleur) and well worth a try especially taking the price into consideration. Although you could supplement through other means I think the secret is no dairy. I stopped drinking cows milk on my doctors advice about 2 months ago (drink soy if you have to) and I have cut other dairy sources significantly and I beleive it is contributing to my results.

 


Posted By : alfax - 6/19/2005 6:32 PM
Back in 1997, (see www.pharmcast.com/Patents  ) Li;Lingna and Lishko;Valeri, filled a patent (United States patent nº 6,224,901) which described a method based on the use of liposomes for selective delivery of beneficial compounds to hair follicles.

According to the authors these technique could be used to correct gray hair by introduction of melanin or other colouring compounds into the hair follicles.

What has happened since 1997? No new developments?

Why has this idea (still) not been used for correction of gray hair?

thanx

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/19/2005 6:35 PM
nicky said...
I would be very careful with "topical melatonin" if only for the reason that pure melatonin is very strong and (in some situations) related chemicals in high doses can act as poisons because they mimic other biologically active nerve chemicals like serotonin.

The highest dose of melatonin I've heard of being used was 10 mg (and this was to prevent cell death in 'blue babies' - it worked.)

I'd wait this one out until you see toxicology data ...
Nope. 
 
Melatonin is not only very nontoxic,
but it is also a detoxifier itself,
reducing the toxicity of drugs:
aluminum,
and mercury
 
 

Posted By : korg - 6/19/2005 6:37 PM
Will recouleur be another rip off like melancor? I don't know, but I'm afraid yes. But of course, is cheaper.

Posted By : alfax - 6/19/2005 6:40 PM
Hello greyboy

THE INGREDIENTS OF RECOULEUR ARE EXACTLY THE SAME INDICATED IN THE US PATENT-> US PATENT APPLICATION Nº20040170702 AT US PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE WEB SITE)- I REFERED IN THIS FORUM!

PLEASE GREYBOY CHECK THIS PATENT WHICH IS DESIGNED NOT ONLY FOR FOR VITILIGO BUT FOR GRAY HAIR ALSO.

IT SEEMS THIS SYNERGISTIC COMBINATION OF SIX INGREDIENTS: VITAMIN C, FOLIC ACID. VITAMIN B12, PANTOTHENIC ACID, ZINC AND COPPER MAXIMIZES MELANIN PRODUCTION. ITS ALL WELL EXPLAINED IN THE PATENT APPLICATION.

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/20/2005 3:52 PM
alfax said...
Back in 1997, (see www.pharmcast.com/Patents  ) Li;Lingna and Lishko;Valeri, filled a patent (United States patent nº 6,224,901) which described a method based on the use of liposomes for selective delivery of beneficial compounds to hair follicles.

According to the authors these technique could be used to correct gray hair by introduction of melanin or other colouring compounds into the hair follicles.

What has happened since 1997? No new developments?

Why has this idea (still) not been used for correction of gray hair?

thanx
This doesn't seem like the greatest solution.  I am all for liposome research but using melanin to correct the missing hair color is really just another dye effect  (We each have our own colors of melanin).  Why not use substances designed to wake up the dormant melanocytes or repopulate the missing ones?
 
The body regenerates but this occurs slower and slower as we age.  I am presently more interested in regeneration research than in another way to color the hairs and cover up the underlying lack of proper body function.  (Some would argue that this IS proper body function at an older age -- but I disagree).
 
I want to fix the problem at the root (pun intended) and not just cover it up! 
 
 
 
 

Posted By : alfax - 6/20/2005 7:03 PM
Appparently it was also in 1997(!!) that Desmond Tobin (see Rivera's reply in this topic) designed a technique to "wake-up" melanocytes!!

But it seems that we'll have to wait perhaps more than 10 years for commercial application.

Does anyone know of any new developments iin this area of research?

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/27/2005 4:05 PM
Source for bulk melatonin powder:
http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/10420/SLM1111

Now remember you experimental types... 1G = 1000 mg so be CAREFUL.

To make a 1% solution (like in the study) you need 10mg/ml so that
is enough for 100 ml or 3.38140226 fluid ounces.

Of course I have no idea how solutable this stuff is so we will see.  However, I beleive the idea is to keep it topical and so perhaps a colloid would be good enough.
 
 
Update: Even cheaper source: http://www.agscientific.com/Item/M1040.htm
5g for $100.00 that 5000mg enough for 1/2 liter (500ML) of 1% solution.
 

Post Edited (zorba990) : 7/8/2005 10:41:32 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : greyboy - 6/27/2005 4:10 PM

Another interesting patent document: 20050049268

As most of you will probably know a couple of years ago french doctors found that cancer patients that were given the drug gleevec exhibited progressive hair repigmentation. The doctors stated they would investigate the findings and it seems that they might be very close to a product that prevents and reverses depigmented hair. The patent was filed in march this year so if anyone can find more information I would be very interested.

alfax - I found recouleur after doing a search on the inventor of the patent that you pointed out in earlier posts. This is the product that she sells. It is only fairly new to the market and from my searches she seems to be getting alot of praise for her work. Well worth a try in my opinion.

So all up it is a bright future for those of us who don't want grey hair. :-)



Posted By : alfax - 6/28/2005 1:28 PM
UNFORTUNATELY ONLY 9.5% OF THE 133 PEOPLE ON GLEEVEC REPIGMENTED THEIR HAIR (AFTER 6-12 MONTHS OR MORE OF DAILY USAGE). AND THIS DRUG HAS SOME SERIOUS SIDE-EFFECTS.

IT SEEMS THAT PABA HAD SIMILAR RESULTS BACK IN THE 1940s.

STILL A LONG WAY TO GO FOR A REALLY EFFECTIVE ANTIDOTE FOR GRAY HAIR.

LETS HOPE AMBER IS NOT JOKING WITH US...

Posted By : Fumpa - 8/17/2005 1:04 PM
Fish Oil?
 
This is more than 2 years old so I was wondering if there has been any new information on the use of fish oil to combat greying hair.
 
--------------------------------------------------------
 
 
Another Fish Oil Tale Of Gray Hair Gone

08/04/2003
 
Q. I have been taking fish oil concentrate for heart health. After reading other readers' comments on fish oil restoring their hair to its original color, I checked mine in the bright sunlight. Lo and behold, a lot of my gray is gone. I have bleached my hair for years, but the new root growth, which was mostly gray, is now brown. Amazing!
 
A. We agree with you that these tales are amazing. We don't know quite what to make of them. We wouldn't suggest someone start taking fish oil with the expectation that it would reverse the graying process. But as you point out, there may be other reasons to take fish oil. If gray hair changes back to its original color as a side effect, so much the better.
 
 
 

Posted By : leppert - 8/18/2005 12:30 PM
Hasn't done a thing for mine and I've been taking it for years...

Posted By : MikeP - 8/18/2005 3:38 PM
I am 70 and have delayed the greying by massaging it every time in the shower with a plastic massager. I began when I was about 40. On one side it has a handle and the other side has about 100 hundred flexible 1 inch long fingers.

Posted By : alfax - 8/19/2005 12:15 PM
AMBER:

WE ARE WAITING NEWS about YOUR "ANTI GRAY-HAIR" PRODUCT.

LET'S SEE IF U "WALK THE TALK".

Posted By : paragon - 8/19/2005 12:16 PM
Hello everyone. I'm a 35 year old male. Often mistaken for 25. However, my first real external sign of aging has ocurred - facial grey starting at 30. Its beginning to pick up momentum in the goatee. What's the verdict on reversal? I'm reading some encouraging things here. Was about to buy a product called Dr. Shen's but want to hold off unil I research the best options. Anyone here had any significant rollback of facial grey?

Posted By : Fumpa - 8/20/2005 8:52 PM
lei.talk said...

the first time
was when durk pearson recommended dmae-h3.
within a couple of days,
my five-o'clock shadow was noticeably darker.
the second time
was when syntrax offered a new product: proxylon. 
i cut my hair every two weeks.
when I got out of the chair,
there was grey hair on the floor
and light-brown hair on my head.
a friend of mine tried the dmae-h3.
his goatee got darker,
later he decided that engaging in "cosmetic-behavior"
was "feminine" and he stopped.
 
 
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 
The following is another post provided for the purpose of my question
 
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
One great though to remove grey hair would be to use the following nutrients:
 
 
    smhair   1. Pantothenic acid
        2. PABA
        3. Brewers yeast
 
Take the recommended dosage of the PABA and the pantothenic acid and take 8 of the brewers yeast. 
 
Take them all daily! Watch what happens to your roots in a couple of months.
 
Hope this works for you.
 
Let me know!
 
Dennis James
Life Extension Member
 
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 
 
My Question 
Has anyone that has been to this thread tried any of these suggested solutions, other than the original posters of course? If so then was it successful?
 
I don't mean to cast doubt upon the suggestions but would love to hear some success stories that resulted from these suggestions so I can feel confident going out and giving it a shot.
 
Thanks.

Posted By : Fumpa - 8/20/2005 8:52 PM
leppert said...
Hasn't done a thing for mine and I've been taking it for years...
Thanks for response leppert. I didn't think that it would help with the graying but I was hoping. I recently started taking fish oil for the other benefits that it has to offer and it seems that new benefits keep getting discovered and was hoping that this would be another one of its benefits. Oh well.
 
The search continues.
 
turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn

Posted By : paragon - 8/21/2005 11:31 AM
Thanks Fumpa.
I'm not familiar with dmae-h3. Is it simply a dietary supplement? As long as its not a hormone I'm game.

Is the dmae-h3 applied to the face manually?
I'm assuming the 3 part nutrient regimen is taken orally. Do you suggest doing both simultaneously?

Sorry for all the questions, don't want to jump in without knowing what I'm doing.

Posted By : Fumpa - Yesterday 4:31 PM
paragon said...
Thanks Fumpa.
I'm not familiar with dmae-h3. Is it simply a dietary supplement? As long as its not a hormone I'm game.

Is the dmae-h3 applied to the face manually?
I'm assuming the 3 part nutrient regimen is taken orally. Do you suggest doing both simultaneously?

Sorry for all the questions, don't want to jump in without knowing what I'm doing.
Hi paragon. Sorry but I'm looking for the same thing you're looking for. Confirmation on the effectiveness of these suggested solutions. My cluttered messages are the cause of the confusion I'm sure.
 
I'm wanting to try these solutions and may do so soon regardless of whether or not someone confirms that these work.
 
If I do go for I'll let you and others here know when I've started and report back periodically (like when I get haircuts) on the success/failure.

Posted By : lei.talk - 8/24/2005 7:39 AM

paragon-

Thanks Fumpa.
I'm not familiar with twinlab's dmae-h3. Is it simply a dietary supplement? As long as its not a hormone I'm game.

Is the twinlab's dmae-h3 applied to the face manually?
I'm assuming the 3 part nutrient regimen is taken orally. Do you suggest doing both simultaneously?

Sorry for all the questions, don't want to jump in without knowing what I'm doing.

all of those questions were answered earlier in the thread.

there were a lot of private messages about results, but no posts.

Post Edited (lei.talk) : 9/1/2005 9:09:12 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : zorba990 - 8/24/2005 7:49 AM
I detailed my experiences earlier in the thread(s) on this subject.
 
Other things I am looking into (in addition to copper, zinc, dmae-h3, tyrosine, herbs, etc)
 
Melanin synthesis requires tyrosinase, which performs a step in the oxidation of DOPA (from tyrosine hydroxylation) to DOPAquinone.  Tyrosinase is a copper and histidine (amino acid) containing enzyme that the body can make which can bind oxygen forming a peroxide.
 
It seems that many (most/all?) of the things discussed here work to either increase the efficiency of copper metabolism (PABA, zinc, copper) or counteract the oxidative quality of this enzymes activity (antioxidants).  Since this enzyme uses a peroxide radical to do its work the antoxidants should protect against
oxidation of the nearby melanocytes and their dendrites (which they use to transfer the melanin to the keratinocytes).
 
One thing that has not been mentioned is histidine.  Histidine is an amino acid that is required for producing histamine.  So you might not want to take it orally unless you have a clear deficiency.  But topically, it might be able to get right where it needs to be in order to help out with tyrosinase synthesis.
 
 
However, none of the above will create a melanocyte where one does not exist.  So if all the melanocytes are gone from oxidation, and the stem cells to create new ones are also gone
then you are hosed.
 
But perhaps there is a way to stimulate the body to make more of those melanocyte specific stem cells.....(to be continued)...
 
 

Posted By : alfax - 8/24/2005 2:10 PM
JUST 2 SPECULATIONS:

1) BOOSTING THE ENDOGENOUS ANTIOXIDANT CAPACITY OF OUR ORGANISM (taking suplements such as SODzime with Glisodin for example-which increases on average the levels of SOD/catalase by 30%) CAN delay the onset of gray hair?

2) The production of energy by the cellular mitocondria diminishes with age. The supplementation with CoQ10 can attenuate that process. One can speculate that since ALL CELULAR PROCESSES DEMAND ENERGY (including melanin sintesis) that supplementation with CoQ10 can, perhaps, delay the onset of gray hair.

Posted By : bluefin - 8/25/2005 3:20 PM
Home Remedies and Treatment

" Amla " is the best cure for grey hair and falling hair. Regular massage of "amla" paste rubbed into the scalp has worked wonders in many cases, frequently reversing the process of greying or falling off of hair.

Massage your hairs with coconut oil and lemon everyday for at least 15 minutes. There are instances of people having black hairs even up to the age of 60-70 years by using this method.

Soak about 10 to 12 rithas and 3 to 4 shikakai pods overnight in a pint of water. Next day, boil for a few minutes and strain. Use this liquid as a normal shampoo. Separately soak 10 to 12 dried amlas in half a cup of water overnight. Strain and use as a hair conditioner after your head bath. Leave it on the hair for ten minutes and rinse your hair with clean warm water. This will leave your hair smooth and shiny and also stop premature greying of your hair.

Mix lemon juice in castor oil and beat till frothy. Add 'henna' in to it. Apply the mixture evenly over the scalp, and bathe after an hour using 'shikakai' and 'ritha' shampoo as above. This checks greying of hair.

Take a cup of strong black tea (without milk), and to this add a tablespoon of salt. When cold, strain the tea and massage it on the roots. Leave it on for an hour, and then rinse with cold water. Do not shampoo it.

Nourishment and proper grooming is very important to keep the hair texture, growth, shin and luster in a good condition. Therefore use a shampoo and conditioner that suits your hair type. Choose products that are gentle, preferably without any harsh detergent like sodium lauryl sulfate. For daily washes, use a shampoo that is mild, gentle and moisturizing. Don't use too much conditioner or else it makes hair greasy. Daily massage your hair with your fingertips; it helps proper blood circulation in the scalp.

Nourishment

Your hair needs the following nourishment:

a) Vitamin A - vitamin A is necessary for promoting a healthy scalp and gives body and glow to your hair. Include dark green vegetables and orange and yellow fruits & vegetables in your diet.

b) Vitamin B - vitamin B regulates the secretion of oil, keeps hair healthy & moisturized. Eat more of fresh green leafy vegetables, tomatoes, cauliflower, cereals, liver kidney, yogurt, bananas and green vegetables.

c) Minerals - minerals like zinc, iron and copper promote healthy hair. Food sources: zinc - red meat, chicken & green vegetables; iron - beef, dried apricots, red meat, parsley, eggs, wheat and sunflower seeds; copper - seafood, egg yolk and whole grains.

d) Proteins - consuming more of protein gives your hair natural shine and good texture. Include more of sprouted whole grains, cereals, meat and soy in your diet.

Posted By : Fumpa - 8/27/2005 8:25 PM
zorba990 said...
I detailed my experiences earlier in the thread(s) on this subject.
 
Other things I am looking into (in addition to copper, zinc, dmae-h3, tyrosine, herbs, etc)
 
Melanin synthesis requires tyrosinase, which performs a step in the oxidation of DOPA (from tyrosine hydroxylation) to DOPAquinone.  Tyrosinase is a copper and histidine (amino acid) containing enzyme that the body can make which can bind oxygen forming a peroxide.
 
It seems that many (most/all?) of the things discussed here work to either increase the efficiency of copper metabolism (PABA, zinc, copper) or counteract the oxidative quality of this enzymes activity (antioxidants).  Since this enzyme uses a peroxide radical to do its work the antoxidants should protect against
oxidation of the nearby melanocytes and their dendrites (which they use to transfer the melanin to the keratinocytes).
 
One thing that has not been mentioned is histidine.  Histidine is an amino acid that is required for producing histamine.  So you might not want to take it orally unless you have a clear deficiency.  But topically, it might be able to get right where it needs to be in order to help out with tyrosinase synthesis.
 
 
However, none of the above will create a melanocyte where one does not exist.  So if all the melanocytes are gone from oxidation, and the stem cells to create new ones are also gone
then you are hosed.
 
But perhaps there is a way to stimulate the body to make more of those melanocyte specific stem cells.....(to be continued)...
 
 
Thanks for the informative response zorba. I'll have to go through and track down your other posts. Look forward to hearing/reading more on the "(to be continued)" topic.
Hopefully I still have the melanocytes needed to produce color. I do have a question on this.
I have a question about melanocytes. Are there certain cases where the odds are higher for the melanocyte being depleted/dead? For example, in my case I started getting my gray hairs at a very young age (18) and I'm guessing its inherited from my father's side as he also started to get his gray hairs at a young age. His progressed much quicker though and he had a full head of gray by the time he was 40 (I think).
thanks

Posted By : greyboy - 8/28/2005 9:37 PM
United states patent: 20050058614
 
This patent describes the use of a drug used to treat glaucoma as able to reverse gray hair if applied topically. Check it out, it even tells you how to make a solution.
Let me know what you think of the information


Posted By : alfax - 8/31/2005 1:24 PM
 
Hello Greyboy
 
I've checked the patent and it seems UNUSUALY PROMISING...
 
THE SUBSTANCE THAT SEEMS TO DO THE TRICK-BIMATOPROST-IS USED FOR TREATING GLAUCOMA, AND IS SOLD BY ALLERGAN,INC OF IRVINE,CALIFORNIA.
 
APPARENTLY THIS SUBSTANCE IS SAFE AND NON TOXIC AND IT ALSO ENHANCES HAIR GROWTH (!).
 
IT CAN BE TAKEN AS A TABLET OR APPLIED TOPICALY.
 
A 72 YEAR OLD MALE TOOK BIMATOPROST AS A TABLET 100 MG/DOSE, 3 DOSES PER DAY FOR 4 MONTHS AND A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF HIS GRAY HAIRS HAD TURNED INTO THE ORIGINAL PIGMENT OR DARK BROWN COLOR. The authors didn't explain what they meant by "significant portion" though...
 
I WONDER IF THIS IS THE "GRAY HAIR REVERSAL PRODUCT" THAT amber mentioned here in d forum...
 
Is this the answer? WHO KNOWS ...
 
 
 
 

Posted By : greyboy - 9/2/2005 6:09 PM

alfax,

I recieved a pm from amber and she stated that her product was being trialed in a local salon this month and she would let me know how it went, but I havent heard from her since???? she was very vague but said she had been flat out with business plans. Maybe she does have a good product, but who's to know, she's keeping it very quiet!

the interesting thing is that in the patent it basically states at the end that this information is free and to be used by anyone that knows what they are doing. From memory it suggested you apply topically for reversal of grey hair. The only thing stopping me from trying this is there was no said amount for the ingredients for topical application.

I think that we all could do some research and establish a safe formula containing this drug.

what do you think?



Posted By : alfax - 9/2/2005 9:01 PM
information about bimatoprost:

Its chemical name is ( Z )-7-[(1 R ,2 R ,3 R ,5 S )-3, 5-Dihydroxy-2-[1 E ,3 S )-3-hydroxy-5-phenyl-1-pentenyl ]cyclopentyl]-5-N- ethylheptenamide, and its molecular weight is 415.58. Its molecular formula is C 25 H 37 NO 4

Bimatoprost is a powder, which is very soluble in ethyl alcohol and methyl alcohol and slightly soluble in water.

Posted By : alfax - 9/2/2005 9:01 PM
greyboy

As far as i know bimatoprost is sold under medical prescription only. But (I think) anyone who knows some chemistry could made it and prepare a topical solution with it.

Unfortunately i'm not very good at practical chemistry ...

Posted By : JD Pintner - 9/6/2005 1:44 PM
Dear Generic,
I had your problem ten years ago and the only thing that worked was "Just for Men". However after six years of itchy scalp and too frequent applications I saw a picture of myself that made me look like my mother in a wig! That scared me to my senses and I just let myself be grey. And you know what? People still like me, and some actually have more respect for me looking more my age.
Don't get me wrong, I liked looking young but I still look young for a guy with grey hair. I too have taken and still take every supplement in the book, including chlorophyll, biotin, GABA, DMAE, and many of the things "functionmed" has espoused. I currently take 53 supplements per day including everything from Udo's Choice Wholesome Fast Food to pregnenelone, to MSM, to Country Life Total Mins (Iron Free) and on and on. Let's face it, it's only hair. Trying to change it's color back through internally taken specialty compounds is an expensive, time consuming, and possibly risky proposition with a payback which is totally ego fulfilling, but won't ever make you happy. Love yourself as you are and save your supplementation for our health. You'll be just fine.
JD Pintner

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/7/2005 1:44 PM
another "miracle"?

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/7/2005 1:47 PM

no more vit E ??? shocked

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/men/9911/10/premature.graying.wmd/index.html


Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/7/2005 1:47 PM
article: Gene Therapy for Gray Hair?
 
 
also ... one of the recorded antiaging benefits of H3, GH3 ...
return gray hair to natural color
 
i am wondering if H3, GH3 etc would work or safe to use for young people with gray hair ...

Posted By : zorba990 - 9/7/2005 9:11 PM
Statements in that article are meaningless without references.
 
IOW I don't give them any value at all personally.
 

Posted By : JD Pintner - 9/7/2005 9:44 PM
Why does that article say "certain drugs" mentioning none specifically, but dissing vit E? And what's premature anyhow? Is 40 too young? Is 50? Should I have brown hair till I'm 90?

Posted By : zorba990 - 9/8/2005 2:51 PM
JD Pintner said...
Why does that article say "certain drugs" mentioning none specifically, but dissing vit E? And what's premature anyhow? Is 40 too young? Is 50? Should I have brown hair till I'm 90?
At this point I think gray hair is symptom of nutritional and other deficiencies brought on by aging.  I do not think aging is natural, or inevitable.
 
Those that believe there is something wrong with attempting to intervene in the aging process are certainly entitled to their opinion(s), but why they would choose to hang out here is beyond me.
 
 

Posted By : lei.talk - 9/9/2005 11:31 PM
JD Pintner said...
Should I have brown hair till I'm 90?
you should have your natural hair color
until mal-nutrition
prevents your body from functioning properly.
 
which part of "old age"
did you think
was not caused by mal-nutrition
 
or failure to exercise your systems?
 
 
 
 
 

Post Edited (lei.talk) : 9/9/2005 11:18:52 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : aironeous - 9/12/2005 3:29 PM
I'm having trouble deciding how melanocytes differ in how they recieve their nutrients from other cells.
Here is a link to a picture of the cells in question that you can see that corresponds with the link that the moderator gave at the beginning of this thread that discusses the cause of melanocyte death.
I couldn't open the link that the moderator gave because I'm not a member of that journal.
No male in my family has any gray hair. None of my brothers or my dad despite being 60 or so. No female either. Yet here I have a couple showing up on the side of my head.
I have to say that it is highly coincidental with me dying my hair in the last three years. Those spots where they are showing up is where I had used a comb to comb in the dye which scratched my head. Despite the warnings on the box to not rub it in to the scalp I can remember not giving a cr*p about the warning and scratching away at the sides of my temples and using the comb to scratch also because it itched. I dyed it maybe about 5 or 6 times.
 
So now that it is a couple years later and I've actually started to study about life extension, I'm wondering about this dyeing and scratching that I did. I am also wondering - now that I know more - why aren't those follicle melanocytes any different from other cells when it comes to UV light damage, environmental toxins, and oxidation.
 
I realize they are different in that they are rapidly diving cells and so I wonder if UV light can damage a melanocyte up there to cause a p53 mutation and then we take one of these plant extracts like EGCG or sulfurophane and trigger it's shut down.
 
I would think that your head can have the highest amount of UV exposure where there are gaps in your hairs and you have shaved your head or cut it short.
Why can't we put carnosine on our heads? Supposedly this is the one thing that extends the number of times a cell divides.
 
Maybe mix it with some of the products listed in LE's skin products.
 
Can Chlorophyllin mixed with something able to penetrate into that area deliver copper to the meloncytes?
 
I'm not interested in taking too much copper which is probably easy to do. 

Posted By : aironeous - 9/13/2005 2:49 PM
Here is a very exciting news item that I think not only applies to this discussion
 but begs the question, will LEF come out with a method to deliver this enzyme to humans?
 
"Scientists get first glimpse at how plants, most animals repair UV-damaged DNA"
 
 
This link will change as the news item gets moved to an archived file directory so read it quick.
 
 
Here is the first paragraph and a half to give you an idea of what it is about:
 
"For the first time, researchers have observed exactly how some cells are able to repair DNA damage caused by the sun's ultraviolet (UV) radiation. The Ohio State University study revealed how the enzyme photolyase uses energy from visible light to repair UV damage.
 
This enzyme is missing in all mammals, including humans, although all plants and all other animals have it.

Posted By : aironeous - 9/15/2005 7:26 PM
Ok, well, apparently that was only exciting to me. There is a guy named Yarosh that has been working for a number of years on a way to transdermally deliver the photolyase enzyme to your skin cell along with a lot of other vitamins and enzymes
which I happen to find exciting and applicable to this thread if you include the meloncytes in the hair follicle as cells to take care of with a topical.
Here is the link to his company and the various inventions:


Posted By : Nola - 9/15/2005 7:27 PM
Has anyone checked into the possibility of their graying resulting from hypothyroidism?

I read that prematurely gray hair is often a sign of thyroid dysfunction. Research of patients with hypothyroidism shows the treatment of their disease reverses their premature graying within months. Treatment is taking thyroid hormone, Synthroid.

Because of the prevalence of this disease, especially in women, you should get your TSH and Thyroid antibodies tested. Other symptoms of hypothyroidism are: cold hands and feet, fatigue, depression, forgetfulness, thinning hair, and dry skin.

Posted By : leppert - 9/15/2005 9:32 PM
Synthroid is an artificial thyroid medication and not the best kind to do the job. about gray hair? Don't I wish...it hasn't worked for me or other people I know. Armour thyroid and Naturthroid are two natural medications. There are others but I can't think of their names ...

Posted By : Kola - 9/16/2005 3:46 PM

Hi guys and gals,

There is something for renewed hair growth. You all will be floored by this product. It does work, and there have been many clinical studies confirming its extreme efficacy. I even spoke at length to the Amercian manufacturer named David Kern, and he informed me that a Japanese researcher named Dr. Lee has been studying these phytochemicals for 35 years. David and his wife have been to Cornell to interview this scientist and were astounded by the research. Go to www.applepoly.com. Good luck. Oh, I am currently on it and it is amazing. I was balding in the front, and on top. No more. Its growing back fast. Believe me, this is no hype.

Kola


Posted By : zorba990 - 9/17/2005 11:01 PM
Kola said...

Hi guys and gals,

There is something for renewed hair growth. You all will be floored by this product. It does work, and there have been many clinical studies confirming its extreme efficacy. I even spoke at length to the Amercian manufacturer named David Kern, and he informed me that a Japanese researcher named Dr. Lee has been studying these phytochemicals for 35 years. David and his wife have been to Cornell to interview this scientist and were astounded by the research. Go to www.applepoly.com. Good luck. Oh, I am currently on it and it is amazing. I was balding in the front, and on top. No more. Its growing back fast. Believe me, this is no hype.

Kola

Hmm.  Looks pretty expensive and similar to what you would get by adding apple cider vinegar to your shampoo.  Hair loss products without definitive before and after pictures are dubious at best.  It does seem clear that a myriad of antioxidants appears to benefit hair loss.  But there are certainly other factors such as DHT, stress, minerals, nitric oxide, etc.
 
Check out google usenet group alt.baldspot they talk about every single hair loss remedy so you can weed out the useful ones.
 
It is interesting to note that there seems to be more women complaining of hair loss in recent decades than previously.  What could be the cause of this:  More stress?, More prohormones in our food?, Less minerals in our food?, toxins in junk food?  More mercury in our diet?  Or is it simply that it is reported more often?
 
One thing is for sure....when a hair loss product with _astonishing_ results
comes out you will hear about it everywhere.
 
It is likely that the eventual cures that intervene in many of these processes will be by turning (back) on genes that control regeneration,
 
 
 

Posted By : paragon - 9/22/2005 10:53 PM
Fumpa,
Feel free to email me anything you find out on reversing grey and I can do the same. I'm 35 with no grey hair in head. Only some facial grey. Would like to reverse it now while it seems less daunting.
 
 

Posted By : shadow - 9/30/2005 9:20 PM
Folks. I had to register today because I need to post this info:
Last month, I started going to see an accupuncturist for wrinkle treatment (I rather do this than botox). I mentioned to her that I started getting grey hair. She recommended:
1) Fu Fang Shou Wu Pian - 4 tablets with warm water two times a day
2) A tablespoon of Black Sesame power - mix with water and honey for taste every morning
(She noted that since Sesame is oily, don't take it at night for the reason that it will cause weight gain)
Well... guess what, my six year old Grey Hair Patrol pulled out a few grey hairs this morning and the roots are BLACK!
I am soooo very excited.
Oh, FYI, you can buy this Shou Wu Pian in Chinese herb store or on the internet, $6, $7 bucks for 100 pills.
I am using Fu Fang Shou Wu Pian. Black Sesame powder can be found in any Oriental Market or herbal store. You must make sure to buy the pure one. Dont buy the ones that are either sweeten or fillered with flour.
Also, I mix this power in my Soy Bean Milk drink.
I am interested in learning about other people's results.

Posted By : leppert - 10/2/2005 11:45 PM
Shadow, keep us posted about the roots. As an aside, I'd rethink the soybean milk unless it has been fermented. Soy can have a bad effect on the thyroid.

Posted By : lianqiao - 10/4/2005 11:49 AM
hi:   Your best bet is He Shou Wu (100%) .... a Chinese herb that is very effective especially at your young age.   You must be consistent and patient.   It may take 5 or six months or less. yeah

Posted By : shadow - 10/4/2005 6:17 PM
Right. Fu Fang Shou Wu Pian IS He Shou Wu. Also, take note of what Leppert said there about soybean milk. BTW, you can make this sesame power with olong tea - Yes, it does look nasty, but it actually tastes quite good. The sesame power is very aromatic.

Posted By : zorba990 - 10/5/2005 7:12 PM
Ho Shou wu is only one element of the traditional chinese formula for gray hair (read the rest of the thread). It is often sold in an unprepared manner which reduces effectiveness.

Posted By : Conquer - 10/7/2005 6:46 PM
The most promising treatment seems to me to be the Loreal precursor molecule for melanin, dihydroxyl-5.6-indole:
 
         - see the 2nd to last paragraph.
 
I would really like more info from Loreal on a time frame for market release, however, they've not responded to my enquiry. The wording seems to indicate that to some degree the technology is already working.

While other treatments discussed here would seem to have some hope of success in a portion of the population, I see no reason why the above wouldn't work in 100% of cases?
Has anyone any insights on this, or know of how to obtain more information on this?

Posted By : greyboy - 10/18/2005 12:41 PM
US PATENT: 20050208086
 
another patent describing the use of a shampoo or lotion in the treatment of gray hair. here is a paragraph from the patent
 
A cosmetic composition useful for combating canities, comprising a thus effective amount of at least one active agent inducing the expression of DOPAchrome tautomerase selected from the group consisting of hexamethylene bisacetamide (HMBA), glycyrrhizin, a modulator of an endogenous factor situated upstream of the promoter for the DOPAchrome tautomerase (TRP-2), an expression vector encoding DOPAchrome tautomerase (TRP-2), an expression vector encoding an agent inducing the expression of DOPAchrome tautomerase (TRP-2), and Sox10, formulated into a cosmetically acceptable medium therefor
 
 

Posted By : greyboy - 10/18/2005 12:41 PM
US PATENT: 20050214821
 
 
This is a patent filed by Loreal paris about reversing grey hair by fixing the genetic problem that causes it. apparently by administering "polynucleotide fragments" in a form of lotion or shampoo you can reverse grey hair. This patent is only brand new but hopefully a shampoo isn't far away. Its reassuring that it is in the hands of a big international company that would have the ability to release it quickly to the market. let me know what you all think.


Posted By : zorba990 - 10/20/2005 11:09 AM
greyboy said...
US PATENT: 20050214821
 
 
This is a patent filed by Loreal paris about reversing grey hair by fixing the genetic problem that causes it. apparently by administering "polynucleotide fragments" in a form of lotion or shampoo you can reverse grey hair. This patent is only brand new but hopefully a shampoo isn't far away. Its reassuring that it is in the hands of a big international company that would have the ability to release it quickly to the market. let me know what you all think.

Sounds like pTpT Thymidine Dinucleotide which was used to tan the skins of pigs and was going to be developed into a sunless tanning cream.
 
 
pTpT are little DNA fragments that the body uses to repair damaged DNA.  They are also a a pigmentation signal so it would be unclear if the effect was through DNA repair or through stimulation of pigmentation response.
 
 
It would be interesting if the effect was through DNA repair but less so if it is simply stimulating an already tired system.  Topical tyrosinase and DOPA like compunds are, IMHO also likely to be simply stimulating a worn out system and would be of limited us long term (like taking a cup of coffee to stimulate adrenals instead of giving them fuel like pantothenic acid <oversimplified> )
 


Posted By : alfax - 11/1/2005 4:01 PM
 
HELLO GREYBOY
 
IVE CHECKED THE LOREAL PATENT AND IT SEEMS PROMISING.
 
ITS, AS FAR AS I KNOW, THE FIRST GRAY HAIR REVERSAL STRATEGY THAT GOES TO THE "ROOTS" OF THE PROBLEM-GENETICS.
 
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN LOREAL WILL LAUNCH A PRODUCT IN THE MARKET? WILL IT BE EXPENSIVE?
 
THANKS
 
"SEEK AND U SHALL FIND"

Posted By : greyboy - 11/4/2005 3:12 PM

I cant seem to find anything as to when it will be released. I can't see it being too long given the capabilities of the company. The only thing that worries me is the price?



Posted By : zorba990 - 11/4/2005 5:23 PM
alfax said...
 
HELLO GREYBOY
 
IVE CHECKED THE LOREAL PATENT AND IT SEEMS PROMISING.
 
ITS, AS FAR AS I KNOW, THE FIRST GRAY HAIR REVERSAL STRATEGY THAT GOES TO THE "ROOTS" OF THE PROBLEM-GENETICS.
 
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN LOREAL WILL LAUNCH A PRODUCT IN THE MARKET? WILL IT BE EXPENSIVE?
 
THANKS
 
"SEEK AND U SHALL FIND"
The DNA fragments don't have aything to do with altering your own genetics.  It acts as a melanin stimulator.

Posted By : Hot Denim - 11/10/2005 3:54 PM
I recently found this PEPPERIE :

Could anybody that tries this post the results.


Posted By : eric - 12/30/2005 1:26 PM
Do you remember Amber?
Is she still alive???
 
 

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 1/11/2006 4:30:28 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : tronics - 12/30/2005 1:28 PM
Hello! this thread has stopped in its tracks, dead end??, Is Loreal our only hope?? There was a product that I used which was not a dye but a stimulant which worked quite well but not 100%, that was called restoria. You had to apply it daily.

Posted By : alfax - 12/31/2005 11:55 PM

look at this:

Jun 27, 2005

Bean extract may prevent gray hair


Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 2005 May;69(5):873-82.

Hot-Water Extracts from Adzuki Beans (Vigna angularis) Stimulate Not Only Melanogenesis in Cultured Mouse B16 Melanoma Cells but Also Pigmentation of Hair Color in C3H Mice.

Itoh T, Furuichi Y. Imuraya Confectionary Co., Ltd.

A hot-water extract of adzuki was obtained by boiling beans of adzuki (Vigna angularis) . . . These results suggest that the addition of Wex activates the adenylcyclase and protein kinase pathways and, as a result, stimulates melanogenesis. WEx was found to have pigmentation activity on hair color in C3H mice. It might be useful in anti-graying, protecting human skin from irradiation.

 

STUDY SUMMARY

VIEW IMAGE
Will gray hair become a thing of the past?
This Japanese study showed how hot-water extract from boiled adzuki beans (Vigna angularis) stimulates melanin production in both cultured melanoma cells from mice and in the hair of mice which were fed the extract.


Posted By : alfax - 1/1/2006 12:13 AM

 what are this beans:

The Adzuki Bean


adzuki bean; azuki bean [ah-ZOO-kee; AH-zoo-kee] A small, dried, russet-colored bean with a sweet flavor. Adzuki beans can be purchased whole or powdered at Asian markets. They are particularly popular in Japanese cooking where they're used in confections such as the popular YOKAN, made with adzuki-bean paste and AGAR. See also BEANS.

from THE FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst, Barron's Educational Services, Inc.

VIEW IMAGE

These are small, reddish-brown beans, rounded in shape with a point at one end. They have a strong, nutty, sweet flavour, and are much used in the macrobiotic diet, because as Eunice Farmilañt says in Macrobiotic Cooking they are "the most yang of Beans". They probably originate from China, and are imported from China and Thailand where they are harvested in November and December. In the Orient, adzuki beans are usually cooked to a red soft consistency and served with such ingredients as coconut milk. They are also cooked with rice, their bright colour tinting the rice an attractive pink, as in the Japanese, Red-cooked Festival Rice. In the East it's also common to find, adzuki beans sweetened with sugar and made into cakes and sweetmeats.

From The Bean Book by Rose Elliot, Fontana/Collins. ISBN 0 00 635536

 


Posted By : seagull style - 1/2/2006 3:33 PM
I TEND TO THINK STRESS IS THE MAIN CULPRIT. I'VE HAD ANXIETY ATTACKS SINCE MAYBE 9 YRS OLD AND FIRST NOTICED GRAYS AT 17. I WOULD CONCLUDE THEN THAT IF YOU GET IT LATER IN LIFE ITS B/C OF THE INCREASE IN CORTISOL. I'VE READ THAT VIT C SUPRESSES CORTISOL AND IF I REMEMBER WELL WHEN I WAS WORKING OUT TWICE A DAY AND DRINKING A GALLON OF O.J. A DAY I HAD NO GREY HAIRS. WHEN I NEGLECT TO EXERCISE AND THEREFORE DON'T NEED A GALL OF O.J. THE GRAYS RETURN FROM THE DEAD. THIS OF COURSE IS ALL ANECDOTAL PLUS A BIT OF LOGIC THROWN IN.

Posted By : b4its2late - 1/11/2006 6:29 PM
The full Adzuki bean paper can be found at the following url:
http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb/69/5/873/_pdf

Posted By : alfax - 1/11/2006 7:16 PM
It would be interesting if someone tried to make this extract (following the procedures described in the paper) and experimented on themself for some months.

Posted By : concerned - 1/12/2006 3:38 PM
Hi
I would like to try PABA. Can someone please help me with a mix, whether it be copper, B, or anything ... i'm new to all this and don't understand the jargon used before ...
A bit of background: when i was 18 i took a product called 'roacutaine'. it was for acne. since i have taken it, my hair has gradually gone to total gray. now starting beard, and chest. (now 28)
i know its a long shot to try this stuff, but i would like to.
can someone please help me and give me an easy description of what i could get from the store and try.
thanks.

Posted By : alfax - 1/12/2006 9:21 PM
DMAE-H3 FROM TWINLAB HAS GOT 150 MG PABA AND 100 MG DMAE PER SERVING. AND IT'S QUITE CHEAP. SEE THE FIRST THREADS OF THIS FORUM FOR MORE INFORMATION.

Posted By : b4its2late - 1/16/2006 3:23 PM
I have started boiling beans, keeping the liquid and the beans separately and drinking/eating some of it every day. I may not make 3 months though!

I am also taking vitamins, He Shou Wu and other Chinese herbs and have DMAE-h3 and Proxylon on order (see earlier threads). It is early days but I will let the Forum know if any of it makes a scrap of difference.

I have noticed on the web that Eclipta (alias bhrngraj or bringraj) is supposed to reduce grey hair.

Posted By : alfax - 1/19/2006 2:27 PM
Hello b4its2late

Keep us posted on the effect of the Adzuki beans extract!
ARE U FOLLOWING THE PROCEDURE DESCRIBED IN THE PAPER?
It would be interesting if u took a "before" and "after" picture.
I HAVE BEEN USING DMAE-H3 for almost 6 months now and it doesn't seem to make no diference...
IF U NOTICE ANY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE AFTER SOME MONTHS IT PROBABLY MUST BE THE EFFECT OF THE HOT WATER BEAN EXTRACT.

KEEP ON SEARCHING!

Posted By : b4its2late - 1/20/2006 2:05 PM
No, I am just boiling up beans for 2 hours and keeping the solids and liquid separately for a few days, consuming a bit of each every day. Maybe I should look at the paper in more detail and follow the exact method but it sounds quite complicated and is not adding anything to the beans.

Started 1000 mg capsules PABA today branded Nature's Store.

Basically I'm going to give it 6 months trying all these things to see if they make any difference and then give up if there's no difference.

If there's any significant change I will know about it, picture or not.

Posted By : b4its2late - 1/23/2006 6:04 PM
Information about Bringraj from the following web site looks interesting:

http://www.indigoherbal.co.uk/man_index.htm

Bhringraj
swaras Eclipta Alba Hassk
(fresh juice) The ingredient has rapid effect on premature grey hair and helps normal secretion of melanin; it promotes hair growth by nourishing hair follicles, powerful antibacterial and antifungal.
Normalises scalp conditions by checking boils and carbuncles; it is highly effective in alopecia and loss of hair.

Bhringraj Eclipta Alba
/Wedelix
Calendulacea A well-known hair tonic; it nourishes hair right from the root, improves secretion of melanin and minimises premature greying of hair.
Cooling effect on scalp and mind.
Improves vision power and effective in xerophthalmia.
Also corrects liver disorders.
An abstruent, it corrects liver and spleen enlargement.
Cholagogue and has anti-inflammatory action.
Bala beej restores mental alertness.
Along with Ashwagandha it has the synergistic action.
It is astringent and diuretic.
The drug is useful in derangement of liver and gall bladder.
It improves and regulates liver and gall bladder function and enhances the secretion of bile present in blood and thus exerts to clear jaundice.

Posted By : Gaizz - 1/27/2006 4:47 PM
I recently found this REMINEX:  http://www.reminex.com/
I'm a new member. I'm from Italy, Sardinia.

Posted By : biggarrison - 1/30/2006 1:57 PM
I've been noticing a reduction in my grey hair over the past two months, and I can't pinpoint it on anything in particular. The only changes that I have made to my supplement regimen are as follows:

1: I switched to LEF Mix tabs two months ago, replacing the multi vit/mineral packs I used to take.

2: I started taking Gary Null's Super Calcium Magnesium Citrate, replacing separate magnesium and calcium tabs.

3: I added 6 capsules of Gary Null's Green Stuff to my regimen.

Now I know that Gary Null attributes his lack of grey hair to chlorophyll. Maybe the addition of the Green Stuff caps is the key? I'm going to up my intake to 9 caps a day to see if any more improvement is noticed.

Any thoughts?

A bit more about me:
31 year old male, 5'8", 160lbs.
My complete daily regimen:
9 LEF mix tabs
1 LEF Gamma E Tocopherol cap
2 Feverfew caps (migraine sufferer)
3 GinkoMax (Wonderlabs) caps
1 25 mg DHEA
8000-10000mg Vitamin C
4 1000 mg Omega 3 caps (300mg EPA/200mg DHA per cap)
6 Gary Null's Super Calcium Magnesium Citrate caps (575 mg calcium citrate/575 mg magnesium citrate per 6 caps)
2 Gary Null's Prostate Pro caps
6 Gary Null's Gary's Green Stuff caps
1 1000 mg Blueberry Extract cap
2 625 mg EDTA caps
2 LEF TMG 500 mg tabs

Posted By : b4its2late - 1/31/2006 2:25 PM
Really good to hear of someone having success with this.
Much of a reduction?
Please keep us updated.

Posted By : biggarrison - 1/31/2006 2:38 PM
A somewhat noticeable reduction. I tried to snap a pic, but my camera won't focus in close enough in order to do so.

I have a 3" X 1" aprx patch of what was solid grey at my hairline at the right front of my head. I have a 2" aprx diameter circular patch in the middle of my head, along with the here and there grey on my temples. The latter two are hard for me to judge, so I have been following the first patch as it is the easiest to see.

Over the past two months, I have noticed dark hair growing in the grey patch. The dark hair is most prominent at the edge of the hairline, with a few various dark hairs growing in the midst of the patch. I also have what appears to be some new hair growth as well along the hairline.

Grey hair is a chronic condition among the men on my father's side of the family, my father being completely grey by the time he was 36. I'm 31 and trying to cut it off at the pass.

Today I have upped the dose of the Green Stuff caps to 9 instead of 6. After a few weeks I'll see if it made any remarkable difference.

Posted By : b4its2late - 2/2/2006 3:40 PM

Ok, I'm going to buy some green stuff if they will send it to the UK.

It ties in with stuff on the web about wheat grass juice helping prevent/ reverse? gray hair. Wheat grass juice is full of chlorophyll.

Good luck with your fight against genetics!



Posted By : biggarrison - 2/7/2006 2:56 PM
The ingredients in the Green Stuff I'll list below. Maybe one of them alone is the key.

3 capsules contain a 2000 mg proprietary blend of:
Green Kamut juice, powdered
Wheatgrass juice, powdered
Barley Green juice, powdered
Alfalfa leaf, powdered
Oat grass juice, powdered
Broccoli, powdered
Parsley, powdered
Kale, powdered
Soluble rice bran
Pineapple
Organic carrot juice, powdered
Spirulina
Yucca root
Black licorice root extract

And the product description:
"Gary's Green Stuff is a valuable natural source of Chlorophyll, Magnesium, Potassium, SOD, Alanine, Arginine, Aspartic Acid, Cystine, Glutamic Acid, Glycine, Histidine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Proline, Serine, Threonine, Tyrosine, Valine, and over 18 trace minerals."

Posted By : b4its2late - 2/9/2006 3:53 PM
Probably the wheatgrass. There is lots of stuff about it on the web. You can grow your own and juice it but you need a special juicer as most can't cope with the tough stems and leaves.

Posted By : alfax - 2/9/2006 9:54 PM
I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS:
 
1) Wouldnt it be more effective to take chlorophyll than wheat grass?
 
2) WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CHLOROPHYLL AND CLOROPHYLINE?
 
3) WHAT ARE THE REAL BENEFITS (IF ANY) OF TAKING THIS NUTRIENT(S)?
 
4) IS THERE ANY SCIENCE BACKING THE HYPOTHETICAL EFFECT OF WHEAT GRASS ON GRAY HAIR?
 
THANKS

Posted By : b4its2late - 2/13/2006 12:14 PM
Answers to questions:
1. Maybe, but it may not be the chlorophyll in association with other contents which causes benefit.

2. Explained at:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/phytochemicals/chlorophylls/

3. Read for instance:
http://www.hippocratesinst.org/html/wheatgrass02.htm
and
http://www.greenlifefoods.co.uk/article.htm
There are others if you google on wheatgrass gray science.

4. I could not find any science, just witness statements in the above articles.
We could ask dang how he got on - see page 1 of this forum.

Did you get my PM?

Posted By : larryj - 2/13/2006 12:16 PM
I came across a supplement for gay hair on the internet. There's only one testimonial on this link with a before and after pictures.

http://www.compassionet.com/testimonials.asp?ID=38&product=TOKI-Color

It has these ingredients:

Vitamin A (as beta-carotene) 10,000 IU 200%
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 500 mg 833%
Vitamin E (as D-alpha tocopheryl acid succinate) 200 IU 667%
Folate (as folic acid) 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B12 1 mg 16,667%
Panothenic Acid (as calcium pantothenate) 250 ng 2,500%
Calcium (as calcium pantothenate) 24 mg 2%
Copper (as Copper sulfate) 3 mg 450%
Lycopene 30 mg **
HAI Amino Acid Extract (from sea algae)

I'd appreciate if someone could tell whether these ingredients could have any side effects.

I was able to reverse some of my gray hair in a few months when I had taken a multivitamin/multimineral supplement, a 50 mg vitamin B complex and by trying to eat food rich in copper. The problem with food rich in copper is that they are usually high in fat and calories. I gave up on this regimen and then I started getting more gray hair gradually. I tried drinking 2 ounces of wheatgrass every day for a few months without taking any other supplements, but I didn't see any reversal. I also tried taking 3 g of chlorella everyday for about 6 months with no results.

Thanks.

Posted By : b4its2late - 2/14/2006 7:27 PM

All looks harmless.

Information about lycopene at:

http://www.cami.usip.edu/monographs/lycopene.htm



Posted By : Hot Denim - 2/19/2006 12:31 PM
I recently found this, TOKI COLOR :
 
 
TOKI COLOR
 
 

Could anybody that tries this post the results ?

Post Edited (Hot Denim) : 2/19/2006 11:48:19 AM (GMT-5)


Posted By : Hot Denim - 2/19/2006 12:32 PM
Hot Denim said...
I recently found this PEPPERIE :

Could anybody that tries this post the results.

Did anyone try it?
 
No results have been posted.

Posted By : b4its2late - 2/27/2006 3:43 PM
http://www.pepperie.com  
They have been selling this since 2002.
The testimonials are rather limited and unconvincing, especially as you can submit your own. I may give it a try at some point as it seems fairly painless to prepare and use - add vodka and hot water. Having said that, it's clear that you need to be dedicated and use it for several months before expecting any results.

As for TOKI COLOR, apart from lycopene, which is an expensive tomato extract, which they say has been shown to stimulate "in vitro" melanin production, most of the ingredients are standard vitamin supplements, which many of this forum may be taking already.

Posted By : Gaizz - 3/17/2006 6:40 PM
BigHarrison, after 2 months, you have had turns out you after to have carried the dose of Green Stuff to 9 caps every day?

Posted By : Gurp - 3/20/2006 2:08 PM
In medical school we had a biochemistry teacher that was really brilliant. He had multiple PhDs and was really into "alternative" medicine, like herbs, homeopathy, etc.
 
He also would always have some interesting questions on his tests. One, that I remember, had to do with greying hair. It went something like this:
 
Why don't winos get grey hair?
 
A) Because wine is high in copper
B) Becuase wine is high in iron
C) Because wine is low in fiber
 
 
I forget the answer, but it was either A or B. It had to do with iron or copper. He said it's nearly impossible to find a wino who has grey hair.
 
Anyone else ever hear about this?
 
I know chlorophyll and your "grasses" are high in copper. But don't know if there is a cause/effect relationship. I know copper toxicity can have a lot of problems, so I guess copper would only be recommended if you are deficient. I swear the answer was iron, but I asked a DOM about this and he said copper was the culprit. Is greying more prominent in women? I know they tend to be more anemic than men.
 
Just some thoughts. Anyone know any winos?
 

Posted By : greybeard - 3/20/2006 2:10 PM
I have never used their products, but I know they sell a lot of hair loss stuff.  Looks like they have something for grey hair too, but I haven't seen any reports of someone actually using it:

http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/graying.php

Posted By : greybeard - 3/20/2006 2:10 PM
Gaizz, can you state your question in a more understandable way?

Posted By : Gaizz - 3/20/2006 3:04 PM
Sorry greybeard, i'm from Italy. biggarrison has upped the dose of the Green Stuff caps to 9 instead of 6. I wanted to know if he had seen any difference ...

Posted By : AussieDavid - 3/22/2006 9:11 PM
Has anyone heard of a medication called cat's claw? I went to my local health food shop today to see if they stocked GH3 (see earlier posts on GH3). They had not heard of it. I explained to the guy working there that I wanted it for grey hair. He immediately said that he has seen several customers reverse their grey hair using 'cat's claw'. Anyhow, I had him make some up in a liquid. I have to take 5ml/day with water or juice. It tastes gross, but I am willing to give it a go. I am a 36 yo male. I started getting grey hair in my early 20's and am now totally grey along the sides and most of the top. I use 'Just for Men' every 3 weeks, so no one knows the extent of my grey hair. I have been taking 'Shou Wu Pian', (Plum Flower Brand), 6 tablets/day for the past 2 months. There has been absolutely no change in my grey hair, but they do say that it may take up to 6 months to work. I am also taking 1/2 IU of Recombinant HGH 5 nights/week. This was prescribed by my doctor in response to a 24 hr Urinary GH test and very low IGF-1 levels. Additionally I take 50 mg DHEA daily in Troche form and at night 3 mg melatonin. For hair loss I am taking 1/4 Proscar/day, and also applying a solution of 7% Minoxodil with 0.01% Retinoic Acid to my scalp (1 ml, morning and night). I also take several vitamin supplements: grape seed extract, hawthorn, garlic and parsley caps, saw palmetto, Bio Zinc, cOQ10 (200 mg daily), BioC (1000 mg), omega oils, and a "mens" multivitmin. I am starting to wonder if I am going overboard with all of this supplementation, but I definitely feel much better than I did a year ago, before I started. My older brother (39) has virtually no grey hair and the same for my younger brother (34).

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 3/22/2006 7:14:07 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : b4its2late - 3/24/2006 4:23 PM
I have been taking He Shou Wu (fo ti) for 4 months along with vitamin supplements and almost daily intake of adzuki beans. I have definitely seen a lot of new hair growth and the hair is healthier, though much of the new growth is grey as far as I can see. Has anyone else taking He Shou Wu observed this?
 
In the last month I have started eating black sesame seeds as well (recommended with He Shou Wu) and Gary Null Green Caps.
 
I think the product mentioned earlier at:  http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/graying.php
looks promising as it is delivered in liposomes to the melanocytes.

Posted By : greybeard - 3/27/2006 2:32 PM
AussieDavid said...
... I am also taking 1/2 IU of Recombinant HGH 5 nights/week. This was prescribed by my doctor in response to a 24 hr Urinary GH test and very low IGF-1 levels. Additionally I take 50 mg DHEA daily in Troche form and at night 3 mg melatonin. For hair loss I am taking 1/4 Proscar/day, and also applying a solution of 7% Minoxodil with 0.01% Retinoic Acid to my scalp (1 ml, morning and night). I also take several vitamin supplements: grape seed extract, hawthorn, garlic and parsley caps, saw palmetto, Bio Zinc, cOQ10 (200 mg daily), BioC (1000 mg), omega oils, and a "mens" multivitmin. I am starting to wonder if I am going overboard with all of this supplementation, but I definitely feel much better than I did a year ago, before I started. My older brother (39) has virtually no grey hair and the same for my younger brother (34).
How often do you get your IGF-1 levels checked now that you are on GH? Is your doctor likely to keep you on it for the anti-aging effect? Any side effects (that is the lowest dose of GH I have heard of anyone taking so I bet not)? What brand are you using?
 
I take 1.25 mg fin as well, no sides and it seems to help. Are your hair loss treatments helping? How are your brothers in terms of hair loss?  


Posted By : greybeard - 3/27/2006 2:32 PM
b4its2late,
  I am using lipoxidil's minoxidil as I can't tolerate much alcohol on the scalp these days. I have grey in my beard but only a few strays in my head hair, so I haven't tried that product. Their customer service isn't always the best, but it is getting better. If you try it please keeps us updated. I am trying to keep the hair on my head, so if it ends up that it must be 'gray to stay' so be it. I will use "Just for Men" on it like I do the beard if needed.
 
Last I looked they were mentioning a companion shampoo, but it was nowhere to be found on the order form.  I emailed them and they said if I order the ReMelanil lotion they would throw in the shampoo. Maybe you can get the same deal. yeah

Posted By : AussieDavid - 3/28/2006 12:35 PM

In response to greybeards' questions:

I get my IGF levels checked evey 4 months. There hasn't really been any change and my doctor wanted me to go up to 1 IU/day. I did that for a while, but I am paranoid about side effects (like becomming diabetic or my bones growing) so I have stuck with the 1/2 IU/day. My doctor will keep me on it for anti-ageing effects. I am using a brand called 'Scitropin'. It can be used with a needless injector, but I have gone back to traditional needles because the needless injector didn't work so well. I have just done some more blood tests last week so I should get the results in the next 10 days. I have been particularly irritable lately and have been shedding a lot of hair for the last 4 weeks. I suspect that maybe it is related to the 50mg/day of DHEA that I have been taking. I am guessing that my testosterone levels are high and that maybe my DHT levels have increased as a result. I will know when the blood tests get returned as he requested both testosterone and DHEA levels. If you really want to stop your hair loss, research 'Avodart'. I took it for almost a year and my hair grew really thick. There were side effects however, so I returned to finasteride.

As far as hair loss treatments go, I am taking 1.25 mg Finasteride/day, 320 mg saw palmetto. I get my doctor to prescribe a solution of 7% Minoxodil and 0.01% retinoic acid. I get this made up at a compounding chemist (in Australia). I apply 1 ml to my scalp morning and night. This is the same solution that 'Ashley and Martin' use at their clinics (they are a successful hair loss clinic in Australia). Apparently the retinoic acid is important in the mix to enable the minoxodil to absorb far enough into the scalp. My hair routine routine also now includes using the Hairmax Lasercomb (don't really know if it does anything though) and I also have a UV wand which I bought from Ashley and Martin (again, I don't know if it really does anything). I am of course now also taking the 'Shou Wu Pian' and cat's claw, both in an attempt to restore colour to my hair. I am thinking about adding GH3 to the list as well. I have been taking the Cat's Claw for about a week and one thing that I have noticed is that the 'whites' of my eyes have become very clear and white and my eyes look kinda glazed...is this a good thing?

In comparison to my brothers, I definitely have retained more hair and have just slight receding in the temporal areas. However, I am almost totally gray and they have very few grays at all. They gray thing totally confuses me. I have a fairly stressful job (airline pilot), but I don't think that could make me as gray as I am.

- Have wondered about the zinc/copper ratio in this.  Zinc deficiency is linked with hair loss and higher levels of zinc are linked with a depression of copper levels and a possible decline in pigmentation.  Is it possible to strike a perfect balance? - mod

 


Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 3/28/2006 10:40:31 AM (GMT-5)


Posted By : zorba990 - 3/28/2006 12:40 PM
Topical vitamin D

This might help:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8813138&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum

Posted By : Hot Denim - 3/28/2006 3:45 PM
I recently found this, REMOLAN :
 
 
 
 
 
 
Could anybody that tries this post the results ?

Posted By : greycrown - 3/29/2006 11:38 AM
Has anyone had any sucess with Melancor?.....
Please reply

Posted By : sfrbm - 3/31/2006 12:51 PM
Dear Grey:

LEF's SODZyme may help reverse some greying, especially the kind that appears in your thirties. Be sure to drink plenty of water with those enzymes too. SODZyme is also indicated in reversing "brown age spots" on the skin in some older folks too.

SFRBM

Posted By : gotsomegray - 3/31/2006 12:56 PM

I've tried Melancor for about 4 months now with no noticeable results.  I decided to try Reminex instead since it seems to have all the ingredients of Melancor plus He Shou Wu.  It's also produced and marketed by UNICO enterprises which has a AAA rating by the better business bureau while Melancor has a horrible rating.  I've just taken dairy products out of my diet as was suggested on this or another forum since it supposedly inhibits the intake of copper.  I will definitely let you know if I have any success.

There was a guy on another forum like this one, who said he was [using] Folligen (which is supposed to be for hair loss) and taking Melancor and that his gray was going away.  He attributed it to the Melancor since he applied the Folligen (a copper peptide) to a different part of his scalp.


Posted By : biggarrison - 4/2/2006 1:27 PM

Seems that LEF Mix covers all that, except that the beta-carotene, copper, and lycopene doses are higher in the product you mentioned.  Interesting.

I'm taking 23 mg of lycopene daily (3 mg from LEF Mix, and 20 mg from the prostate formula I take), but my beta-carotene and copper doses are from the LEF Mix.  It might be interesting to up my doses of those as well, along with continuing the Green Stuff to see what happens.

larryj said...
I came across a supplement for gay hair on the internet. There's only one testimonial on this link with a before and after pictures.

http://www.compassionet.com/testimonials.asp?ID=38&product=TOKI-Color

It has these ingredients:

Vitamin A (as beta-carotene) 10,000 IU 200%
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 500 mg 833%
Vitamin E (as D-alpha tocopheryl acid succinate) 200 IU 667%
Folate (as folic acid) 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B12 1 mg 16,667%
Panothenic Acid (as calcium pantothenate) 250 ng 2,500%
Calcium (as calcium pantothenate) 24 mg 2%
Copper (as Copper sulfate) 3 mg 450%
Lycopene 30 mg **
HAI Amino Acid Extract (from sea algae)

I'd appreciate if someone could tell whether these ingredients could have any side effects.

I was able to reverse some of my gray hair in a few months when I had taken a multivitamin/multimineral supplement, a 50 mg vitamin B complex and by trying to eat food rich in copper. The problem with food rich in copper is that they are usually high in fat and calories. I gave up on this regimen and then I started getting more gray hair gradually. I tried drinking 2 ounces of wheatgrass every day for a few months without taking any other supplements, but I didn't see any reversal. I also tried taking 3 g of chlorella everyday for about 6 months with no results.

Thanks.


Posted By : biggarrison - 4/2/2006 1:27 PM
b4its2late.....I FINALLY replied to your PM. Sorry for the long delay :-(

And I'm sorry to the rest about being late with an update. I've been dealing with some issues here in regards to my father's stroke that he suffered last year, and i have barely had time to breathe.

As I said previously, I did indeed up my dose of the Green Stuff caps to nine per day instead of six. Here is what I've found....

1: I've noticed a further darkening of the hairs that were previously darkened. Instead of being a light brown, they are now the dark brown that my hair is.

2: I have also noticed further darkening of the patch. Sporadic in the middle, with a dark hair here and there. But the overall size of the patch that I'm monitoring myself has noticeably decreased.

3: The circular patch in the middle of my head seems to have decreased in size, but there is really no way for me to know for sure. The placement of it makes it just about impossible to monitor by myself.

4: The sporadic greys on my temples, etc seem to have decreased. But that is just speculative really.

On a negative note, I have noticed more grey in my beard! But seeing that I shave all but the moustache (which has no grey in it), it's really a nonfactor. But interesting to say the least.

So thats the point I'm at right now. I'm going to continue with the 9 caps per day dose of the Green Stuff, plus I'm adding two caps of Chlorella per day to go with it.

Another though that is bouncing around my head is upping the dose of the Green Stuff even further by taking the caps with Green Stuff powder mixed in water or juice. Don't know if I will or not, but it might be interesting to see the results if I do.

Other than that my supplement regiment has remaied the same, with the exception of adding a Blueberry extract cap daily.

Will let you all know if any further progress is made.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 4/2/2006 4:28 PM

Answer to reverse grey hair.

As a new member to this forum, I see your frustration, but it's not the major at all. If I say it's not that hard to get back your old or original hair color, the people will jump to me and give me bad feed back. I know it happened to me but not now, it happened to many people but not any more because I have discoverd the simple method by using only one thing from groceries store and it works, it works really well by making your own drink, after 2-3 weeks, you will see hair become changing from gray to your own hair color. Other than that you will benifit such as:to balance hormones, strengthens bone, improve memory and brain functioning, and improve your sex life. I will find out what's called in English. I wonder how many people will be interested in it. It's natural and no chemical involved at all.

jumpin  


Posted By : eric - 4/4/2006 6:42 PM
How many days do you need to "find out"???

Posted By : nevaeh - 4/6/2006 2:10 PM

I would like submit a testimonial regarding the Pepperie that was mentioned a few times in February. I bought this off ebay and I really didn't think it would work.  I have read a great deal about how hair loses color and the scientific world will tell you it can't be reversed. 

I'm 39 years old and I started to grey at age 19 and was 75% grey at 29 so I started dying it. Physically I am very healthy at 5'5 and 125 pounds and take multivitams, exercise and eat healthy. I was told the reason was genetic I was grey so early because it happened to my paternal grandmother about the same time.

I started using it about 6 weeks ago exactly as described. I used Absolute Vodka and steeped it for 6 hours.  It says to spray it on wet hair every day but a few times I was running late for work so I waited and did it after I get home on dry hair.  I use a fair amount since my whole head is affected and I have gone thru a 2 month supply already but I bought more today. It worked for me. I haven't gone a full 4 weeks without dying my hair in over 10 years....till now.

I pulled a few hairs out the other day and saw where the changes of color was actually happening. First there was red (hair dye), then grey, then brown. My natural color. I'm sold on the stuff!!! There's no aweful smell, the massage is relaxing and my hair is shinier than ever before. Now if I could just get one of my kids to massage it in for me, I'd be set  turn

I hope this helps somebody. I'm not going to say it'll work for everybody because like you, I haven't found many reviews....except on ebay and that's one liners. Not much info there. I will still have to dye my hair a few more times....since hair grows in stages, but I have a salt and pepper look right now and that's a huge improvement for me. I have faith that one day, with this herbal tea, I will have my hair back.


Posted By : alfax - 4/8/2006 2:55 PM

Does anyone have any information about  BIMATOPROST, the glaucoma drug that showed promise for gray hair reversal (without side efects)?

This drug has a U.S PATENT(CHECK PREVIOUS THREADS IN THIS FORUM), AND IS SOLD BY Allergan inc of California.
 
Does anyone know if this company intends to launch an anti gray-hair product?
 
I fear that because the patent is recent (early 2005 I think) perhaps a product shouldnt be launched before 5-10 years.
 
It would be interesting if someone got this substance and prepare a topical solution and tried it for a few months ...
 
 


Posted By : alfax - 4/8/2006 2:56 PM

 

What are the ingredients of PIPPERIE?

I wonder if u can do A HOMEMADE VERSION MIXING THE HERBS AND LET THEM STEEP IN ALCOHOL.

WHAT DO U THINK?


Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 4/8/2006 2:56 PM
nevaeh,
 
I also bought Pepperie off Ebay many months ago but never used it as I am so jaded. I hate to be negative but your results sound too good to be true...plus you are a new registered member...Would you be able to privide a picture of one of your  red-then -grey-then- brown hairs? I hope I didn't offend you with my scepticism. :-) Btw, after reading your testimonial I made some Pepperie solution. May be I should give it a try even though I have no hope at all.
 
Regards,
 
RR

Posted By : Gaizz - 4/9/2006 6:10 PM
IT'S A JOKE???
Bao Saka said...

Answer to reverse grey hair.

As a new member to this forum, I see your frustration, but it's not the major at all. If I say it's not that hard to get back your old or original hair color, the people will jump to me and give me bad feed back. I know it happened to me but not now, it happened to many people but not any more because I have discoverd the simple method by using only one thing from groceries store and it works, it works really well by making your own drink, after 2-3 weeks, you will see hair become changing from gray to your own hair color. Other than that you will benifit such as:to balance hormones, strengthens bone, improve memory and brain functioning, and improve your sex life. I will find out what's called in English. I wonder how many people will be interested in it. It's natural and no chemical involved at all.

jumpin  


Posted By : alfax - 4/10/2006 3:32 PM
 
Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people are posting in this forum trying to publicize/sell their homemade concotions- none of which will have any effect in the colour of your hair.
 
Let's get serious and concentrate on the products wich are backed by solid science.
 
AS FAR AS I KNOW THERE ARE ONLY 3 (THREE) PRODUCTS/SUBSTANCES WICH HAVE SOLID SCIENTIFIC BACKING FOR REVERSING GRAY HAIR:
 
1) L´ÓREAL PRECURSOR MOLECULE FOR MELANIN dihydroxyl-5.6-indole
 
2) L´ÓREAL US PATENT: 20050214821- As greyboy said:"reverses grey hair by fixing the genetic problem that causes it, apparently by administering "polynucleotide fragments" to the affected areas.
 
3) BIMATOPROST-(wich i mentioned earlier).Sold by Allergan inc of California
 
 
SO OUR ONLY HOPE IS THAT THESE BIG COMPANIES WILL LAUNCH AN AFFORDABLE PRODUCT (in 5-10 years) BASED ON THESE SUBSTANCES. THE REST IS MAINLY B.S. AND WISHFUL THINKING.
 
KEEP REAL.

Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/10/2006 3:33 PM
Has anyone tried bimatoprost?!?!?

I have done some research on it. It seems to get hair back to original color.

What do you guys think? Has any one heard anything about it? (besides some people mentioning on the topic)

I'm surprised no one tried this yet.

It can be bought here where I live (Brazil) for aprox. 30 dollars but is not in pills :( it is eye drops.

It would be nice if anyone could give us a feedback on that.

Post Edited (BartSimpson) : 4/10/2006 2:45:21 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/10/2006 4:07 PM
I guess we are doomed. There is no way out.

I was getting bald, but I avoided that using finasteride. For white hair there is NOTHING to help. What in the world, I cant believe that.

Im only 24 : (

cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry

Post Edited (BartSimpson) : 4/10/2006 3:11:36 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : lei.talk - 4/11/2006 1:00 PM
it happened, again.
i must be right on the edge of not having grey hair.

for almost five months, i have been baby-sitting
a friend's grand-daughter in northern california.

teaching her to walk and talk
does not stimulate my metabolism
the way that instructing girls at my palaestra does.

high altitude, snow, central heating with out a humidifier,
no daily love-making, no girl sleeping in my arms,
not even their smiling faces and melodious voices
to keep my endocrine system "dialed in" -

all seemed to result in a blurring
of my meticulously maintained physique.

first i noticed my jaw-line and sterno-cleido-mastoids
were no longer hard and sharp, then,
my abs were definitely blurring.

i started adding five grams of tyrosine to
my post-exercise drink
 - hoping to perk-up my glands.

a week later, as
i cut my hair,
i noticed it was growing in - darker.

like i said,
i must be right on the edge of not having grey hair.



Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/11/2006 1:56 PM
you are saying that creatine and a break to your mind made your hair dark again?

please post pics of pre/post.

Thanks.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 4/12/2006 3:00 PM
I agree that there are a lot of people on here who are just pushing their product. Sorting through the garbage is very frustrating for people like myself who are seriousy looking for answers to reversing gray hair.
 
I have been on He Shou Wu for the past 2 months with no results.
 
I started taking 'Cats Claw' in liquid form a few weeks ago in addition to the He Shou Wu. No results as yet (but the whites of my eyes are super white now).
 
I have been taking 1/2 IU Injectible HGH for the past year. No results on my hair as yet.
 
I have just ordered SODzyme. I will add that to the experiment.
 
I have also just ordered GH3. I will add that as well.
 
I'm 36yo male, almost totally gray and totally sick of using Just for Men every 3 weeks.
 
I'll post updates on my progress (or lack thereof). I figure this is a long term effort to restore colour to my hair. I don't believe people who post on here saying they had results in a week or two. Keep it honest please.

Posted By : alfax - 4/12/2006 5:57 PM
Aussie

In Australia u dont have BIMATOPROST? its sold in the US AS A TREATMENT FOR GLAUCOMA UNDER THE NAME-LUMIGAN-I THINK. IT COSTS AROUND 30 US DOLARS A BOTTLE (EYE DROPS).

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING IF U APPLIED THE DROPS ON THE AFFECTED AREAS OF YOUR SCALP DAILY FOR A FEW MONTHS AND TAKE A BEFORE/AFTER PICTURE.

Bimatoprost is supposed not only to reverse gray hair but also to enhance hair growth.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 4/12/2006 9:39 PM

Hi Alfax,

Thanks for the info. Would there be any side effects from applying Bimatoprost topically? Also, I apply a minoxodil solution (7% minox, 0.01% retinoic Acid) to my scalp twice a day. Could the Bimatoprost interfere with the minox solution? What would I apply first? Maybe I could just try a small area.

I feel like a bit of a walking experiment at the moment, but I'll keep taking all this stuff for at least a year to give it a good go.

 



Posted By : alfax - 4/13/2006 1:15 PM
Hi Aussie

Check United states patent: 20050058614.In the US patents site u can download it free of charge.
It seems that the BIMATOPROST is safe and well tolerated, (BUT CHECK THE PATENT IF U ARE WORRIED).

Posted By : Bao Saka - 4/13/2006 1:17 PM
This is not a joke. Who said it's a joke! If you want to be successful, then try it your self.

From my Traditional Medicine book:

1.) In order to reverse or to get back your own hair color: The book said: Grind the garlic and add water then wash your hair with this garlic water, but I've never tried.
2.) This is my proven method and we are using and we are happy with. Galingale is the name. 

This creamy white-fleshed rhizome is often used as a substitute for GINGER. In Lao Traditional Medicine Called: SomLao, some people called:"Kasai in Lao, In Thai " Krachai" in Vietnamese"Ngai bun".... Galingale can be found in Asian markets. 
There are: Black Galingale ( KasaiDam), more powerful, gives dark color and Brown or yellow  Galingale, less expensive, gives blonde or brown color to your hair. It's called black because inside is black, not outside. It looks like ginger but smaller with long fingers on it. It can be found in the form of: tea bag, frozen or fresh.
Grind it, blend it, chop it then add water (1/2 lb for 4l of water), leave it for a while then filter it. Drink it 2-3 glasses/day. For good taste: add honey and lemon or lime juice. 2-4 weeks later, you will see your hair turning the color. Good for heart, balancing hormone, boost immune system, kidneys, cure back pain, may help in your sex life and manopause. Have a good day from Bao Saka! 3 months later, you will come here and say thanks to me.
 If you are successful, hope you will not forget me for this little lesson. To donate to my kids'education fund with paypal, click on this link:
 
 
For individual use only, contact me for commercial purposes.

Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/13/2006 1:21 PM
Next month I am going to start Shou Wu (Fo-Ti). Planning on buying 8 bottles (have to order from the US :( ).

I read a couple statements saying it helped against white hair. But none were 100% trustful.

ANY ONE TREATMENT THAT HELP?

I need to fight this. I will not give up like this.

Posted By : lei.talk - 4/14/2006 12:14 PM
 

Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/14/2006 2:13 PM
Can you tell the name of the product that you are using and also where did you buy it!

I'm going to try that. I'm desperate. : (

Please answer soon!

Thanks.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 4/16/2006 7:16 PM
More on the tyrosine theory...here is a link I just found with reference to tyrosine and Loreal's research:
 
 
I think tyrosine and copper supplementation is definitely worth a try.
 
I have decided to dump my daily zinc tablet. I think I get enough from my 'Mens-Multi' and might be getting too much zinc by having the additional zinc tablet. I started the zinc suppementation about 2 years ago and the graying has spread rapidly over that time, though it my just be nature at play.
 
I last coloured my hair 2 weeks ago and am due to do it again in a week. I mentioned in a recent post that I was shedding heaps of hair. Well, I am now getting heaps of regrowth...some of it gray, some of it brown. That's normal for my frontal hairline. Amongst all of the grey's however is something interesting. There are two hairs which are gray at the tip (about 6mm) and brown at the root. I have only been able to find two hairs and I have spent hours looking at my hairline. I have taken some photos and will post them if someone can tell me where to do it. Like I said, it is only 2 hairs. Hardly anything to get too excited about, but it gives me some hope that maybe things are starting to happen (or maybe it is just natural for that to occur?) If it is because of supplementation, it's either the He Shou Wu or the cat's claw, as I haven't yet recieved my order of GH3, or SODzyme. I've also just ordered a multi-vitamin with copper in it, and am about to order some tyrosine.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 4/16/2006 7:22 PM

Hi lei.talk,

The tryosine links look interesting. I also noticed the reference to copper in one of those links as well. Copper has been mentioned several times in this forum. I'm gonna add some Tryosine to my protein drinks and look around for a good multivitamin which has copper in it. Any suggestions on a brand? I have had a look at the 'LEF mix', but there are some 'not so good' reports on the net about the quality of the ingredients. Another brand I found with copper in it is ' Usana Multimineral'. It's an advertising minefield out there and it really is difficult to know what is good quality.

Also, is it possible to have too much zinc? I noticed a post from the moderator referring to the zinc/copper ratio and getting the balance right. I take a bio-zinc tablet each day in addition to my ' Mens Multi' (which also has zinc in it). I am wondering if this could be too much?

My current 'reversing gray' routine: 1/2 IU Injectible HGH, He Shou Wu, cat's claw, just about to start GH3 and SODzyme, and now going to add tryosine and copper supplement. Will let you all know if I have any success.



Posted By : David Morgan - 4/16/2006 7:25 PM
Magnesium Dependent Reversible Conversion of Black to Gray Hair in Piebald Rats.
Galt, RM; Laing, GH; Hass, GM
Post-weanling, piebald, black and white rats were fed a low magnesium (3-5 mg% of Mg) synthetic diet. Pair-fed controls were fed the same diet enriched with 65 mg% of Mg. Within 6-8 weeks, the black hair of deficient rats but not that of pair-fed controls slowly turned gray. Addition of excess amino acid precursors of eumelanin to the diet did not prevent graying. Upon repletion of the deficient rats with Mg, the gray hair was slowly replaced by black hair. Microscopically, the shafts, keratinocytes and melanocytes of gray hair proved to be partly depleted of eumelanin. Furthermore, the gray hair and white hair sheared from deficient rats were both greatly depleted of Mg. The data indicated that graying was closely related to retardation of weight gain and rate of growth of hair, complicated by a specific effect of Mg deprivation on the acitivty of hair matrix enzymes responsible for melanogenesis.


Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/16/2006 11:19 PM
You don't know how happy this makes me!

I'm thrilled.

Please post detailed info about your regimen and the pics asap.

Which brand of tyrosine are you planning on buying?  Please advise me.

Thanks.

Posted By : swimmer - 4/17/2006 12:29 PM
I've been taking vitamin E for a month and a half now, one tablet daily during the first month and found three hairs (not too excited though) with their roots black, now I have incremented the dosage with one tablet twice a day along with spirulina (two per day as well, 400 mg)..lets see what happens in the months to come...good
luck for everyone.


Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/17/2006 1:02 PM
Hummm...

Vitamin E, I have read a couple things about it. Maybe it helps.

I'm still planning on buying Shou Wu.

Probably going to buy it tomorrow, when i have more time.

Let keep this uptodate guys, maybe we can find a way to prevent this

Posted By : biggarrison - 4/17/2006 5:52 PM
Just curious - is there any one in the NYC area that is willing to help me track my progress? My cam won't zoom in close enough to get a clear shot, and I think it would be interesting for someone neutral to monitor me results. Just a thought.

Posted By : dLaertios - 4/18/2006 3:25 PM
Hi to all,

lei.talk
thanks for all useful information/ you provided but I hoped you had found a solution to grey hair. I 've read many times the topic and you wrote at least 3 times something hopeful but then nothing else. I take this as that methods don't work. Hope to find something that works and share it with us.
BartSimpson
I 've read somewhere that a doctor who started greying at 30 took daily supplement of 800 mg of vitamin E and not only reversed it but had a head of black hairs when he was 60 year old as well.

As for me I believe Bao Saka information and try to make a cheap conditioner of garlic - I believe a lot on this vegetable's powers - maybe mixed with apple vinegar or alcohol, as soon as I resolve the smell problems that occur.

Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/18/2006 3:27 PM
Not from NYC, but if you get clear pictures, I can track it with you.

I bought yesterday 4 boxes of 45 pills - 100 mg of cat's claw. Im going to start taking 300 mg daily. I'm also taking 3 pill food daily.

Next paycheck Im ordering the L-tyrosine and the Fo-Ti.

Posted By : lei.talk - 4/18/2006 3:30 PM
AussieDavid said...

Hi lei.talk,

Also, is it possible to have too much zinc? I noticed a post from the moderator referring to the zinc/copper ratio and getting the balance right.

 
almost ten years ago,
we received a case of free
zma from snac
(an outfit completely unknown to us, at the time).

it was not injectable,
so, dan gave it to me.

with in less than a week,
my voice did sound more gravelly,
my electric razor was struggling
to chew its way through my morning stubble
which was noticeably thicker and stiffer to the touch,

my girl-friend was irresistible - morning and evening -
and my female trainees were a great temptation.

during the next few months,
i began to creep back up toward three-fifteen
on my bench-press and squats
(a weight i had said good-bye to
as "
man-o-pause" took its toll).

was my greying hair a co-incidence
or the result of a zinc/copper imbalance?

i am unwilling to reduce my zinc in-take
to find out. besides, girls seem to find the contrast
between my grey hair and my physique more attractive
- although they are surprised that all of my hair is grey
(for some reason they assumed
that only the hair on your head turns grey).

 

 


Posted By : lei.talk - 4/18/2006 10:34 PM
AussieDavid said...

Hi lei.talk,

I have had a look at the 'LEF mix', but there are some 'not so good' reports on the net about the quality of the ingredients.

It's an advertising minefield out there and it really is difficult to know what is good quality

i thought life extension mix tablets were the highest quality.
 
please, direct me to those 'not so good' reports on the net.
i would like to read them.

Posted By : lei.talk - 4/18/2006 10:36 PM
dLaertios said...
lei.talk
thanks for all useful information/ you provided but I hoped you had found a solution to grey hair. I 've read many times the topic and you wrote at least 3 times something hopeful but then nothing else. I take this as that methods don't work. Hope to find something that works and share it with us.
i apologise
for not being more clear.

the three different supplements
that accidentally restored my hair-color
all worked for me - as long as i used them.

i did receive many "private messages"
from readers asking for affective dosages.
some wrote back because they were thrilled
with the results. others never shared their results.

i have fun with my grey hair.

pugnacious young guys,
mistaking my grey hair for decrepitude,
are always
surprised
and curious young girls, intrigued by my attitude,
have a more pleasant surprise.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 4/19/2006 1:17 PM

I have posted pics of one of my hairs that has a brown root, but grey tip. Like I said in my earlier post, I have only found 2 such hairs so far, so it's nothing to get too excited about.

The pics are here:

http://www.fotothing.com/AussieDavid/photo/00b56a0bba607ef1088ac6491646da18/

My hair routine as of today is as follows:

To attempt to reverse the greying:

1) 'Shou Wu Pian' - (Plum Flower Brand). Taking 9 caps/day. Been taking this brand for about 3 months. I've ordered a different brand (see point 2) and am just finishing this brand off.

2) 'He Shou Wu' (same thing as Shou Wu Pian) - 6 capsules a day of Active Herb, Hair Vive brand. Started this brand about 2 weeks ago. Have bought 6 bottles (80 x 400 mg caps/bottle). When I have finished the Plum Flower Brand, I will double the dose of this Active Herb version for the next month or two.

3) Cats claw liquid - 5ml/day, mixed with 'Apple and Blackcurrent' Juice. It tastes gross, but I'll persevere. Been taking this for about 6 weeks.

4) L-Tyrosine powder - 6 grams a day of Musashi Brand (Just started this yesterday)

5) 0.5 mcg Silica tablet - 1 per day (called Schuessler Tissue Salts). Started this yesterday.

6) Have ordered SODzyme...still waiting for it to turn up in the post.

7) Have ordered GH3...still waiting for it to turn up in the post.

8) Have ordered the following two multivitamin/mineral suppelments: 'Neuro-Natural General' and 'Total Balance Men's Range', both by xtend-life. I was looking for copper supplementation and that is why I have chosen these two products. I also noticed that LEF also has copper in their 'Mix' as well as a Twinlab 2 mg copper supplement. 

9) Up until this week, I have been taking 1/2 IU of HGH, 5 nights/week. I am taking a break from the HGH. I'm not sure if the reward/risk ratio is personally worth it for me.

To prevent hair loss, my routine is as follows:

1) 1/4 Proscar/day

2) 7% Minoxidil + 0.01% Retinoic Acid solution - 1 ml to scalp twice a day

3) 320 mg saw palmetto/day

4) Frequent use of Hairmax Lasercomb

5) Frequent use of a UV wand

I'm a walking experiment. blush

 

 

 

 

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 4/19/2006 12:20:25 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : AussieDavid - 4/19/2006 1:23 PM
Aloha Lei.talk.
 
The article that threw me the most in regards to the LEF Mix quality was this one:
 
 
There were a few other smaller articles I found when I googled, but having just spent the last hour doing more research, I stand corrected about my statement regarding the quality of the LEF product. I was basically searching the net, comparing vitamins and trying to find the best multivitamin I could. LEF MIX certainly tops them all as far as the ingredients go. In the end it came down to two choices for me: LEF MIX, or a company in New Zealand called xtend-life. Because I wanted copper supplementation, I chose the following 2 products:
 
 
and
 
 
Paying a USD $110 annual subscription for LEF was 'in the mix' when it came to deciding between the two (I live in Australia, so subscription is more expensive than for USA residents). Having said that though, I have only ordered a 2 months supply from 'xtend-life' and may well give LEF a go afterwards. I see LEF has a stand alone Twinlab copper supplement, so taking that in addition to the LEF mix (1 mg copper) may be a solution.
 
You say that you 'have fun' with your grey hair, yet you also talk of 'the three different supplements that accidentaly restored my hair-color all worked for me - as long as I used them'. Does that mean that you let your hair alternate between being grey and its natural colour? If you have supplements that have restored your hair colour, why do you let it remain grey, or alternate between grey and its natural colour?
 
Could you please list your 3 supplements and the dosage in a single post? I am sure many people like myself would really appreciate it.
 
Mahalo.
 
1.  "Their supplement, just like others that they criticized, contains no gamma tocopherol at all! Yet their advertisement states in huge print that Life Extension Mix™ is "The Most Complete Multi-Vitamin Supplement in History". Am I missing something?"  "Nor does it contain any of the Omega3 and other oils, as well as CoEnzyme CoQ10 . . "
 
-LE Mix doesn't contain gamma-tocopherol or the other mixed tocopherols because these compounds are in an oil base which has to be softgel encapsulated.   Ditto for coQ10 and omega-3 fatty acids.  Life Extension Mix is available in powder, capsules, or tablets, all dry forms, to which an oil can't be added. 
 
2. "Not only that, but this Mix also excludes aminos such as L-glutamine and L-arginine, which other companies regard as being important for stimulating growth and immune response."   
- Life Extension Mix is taken with meals, and these amino acids are usually taken on an empty stomach in order to enhance their chances of passing the blood brain barrier to help release GH.  Also, not everyone can or wants to take supplemental amino acids such as these.  For example, there are some people who find that taking supplemental L-arginine reactivates latent HSV infections.  It is not even reasonable to assume that most people need to supplement arginine.  Unlike vitamins that are usually available in suboptimal levels from the standard American diet, arginine is in a lot of foods, such as nuts, grains and meat, and is usually supplemented for specific therapeutic purposes, i.e. GH release. or for hypertension.  There are a 20 other amino acids we could have added to Life Extension Mix and thousands of herbs and phytonutrients, but it would be incorrect to say that Life Extension Mix is incomplete because it doesn't contain them. 
 
3.  "Then we note that most (261mg out of 326mg) of the 'elemental' magnesium in their Mix is derived from highly insoluble (and very cheap!) magnesium oxide which is poorly absorbed by the gut. The calcium salt in their Mix is not specified, which may well indicate that is the usual cheap, poorly absorbed carbonate or oxide forms."
 
-Although a few studies have shown that other forms of magnesium may be better absorbed than magnesium oxide, because of the bulk of the other compounds due to their low elemental values it is difficult to put sufficient quantities in a multinutrient formula without necessitating taking more tablets, capsules or powder, something Life Extension already receives complaints concerning.  One might note that most studies of magnesium which concluded that subjects have obtained benefits from the mineral have used magnesium oxide.  Also, the type of calcium used in Life Extension Mix is on the label. 
 
4.  "If you read the average Life Extension Magazine and take everything there literally, you will find that you need to take in excess of something like 30 various supplements a day to stay healthy, live longer and combat virtually every illness known to humankind, at a combined cost of over $400 a month.  This exceeds what the average person spends on normal food per month - is all this supplementation really necessary or even demonstrably beneficial?"
 
- Necessary, no, beneficial, yes, for many individuals however, there are no statements that one has to take in excess of 30 supplements per day to stay healthy and live longer.   The information on various compounds and available supplements is there for your enlightenment:  take it (or them!) or leave it. 
 
5.  "What is even more disturbing is that the LEF actually published an article (Redwood Anti-Aging Clinic) which referred to the "Eat Right for your Blood Type" theory of Peter Adamo as if it is a proven fact, without a single peer-reviewed or clinical reference to support their claims that each food we eat has a different effect on each one of us because of differences in blood type."
 
- Life Extension magazine has published hundreds of articles by different authors since its beginnings as Antiaging News in 1980.  The article in question was written in 2001.  In that article were a few paragraphs on the blood type diet.  Although the article had other good information on other topics, Life Extension is not in agreement with the premise of the blood type diet and has replied to inquirers with the same.  Furthermore, both the editor who approved the article and the author of the article are no longer working for and writing for Life Extension.   Nevertheless, we do support the right of the individual to investigate and adopt this diet for themselves if they so choose, and we have had people write us who believe in the theory behind it even if we don't. - mod

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 4/19/2006 1:26:19 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : lei.talk - 4/24/2006 1:58 PM
AussieDavid said...

Aloha Lei.talk.
(I live in Australia, so subscription is more expensive than for USA residents).
is there an extra shipping charge
for the supplements, also?
 
You say that you 'have fun' with your grey hair, yet you also talk of 'the three different supplements that accidentally restored my hair-color all worked for me - as long as I used them'. Does that mean that you let your hair alternate between being grey and its natural colour? If you have supplements that have restored your hair colour, why do you let it remain grey, or alternate between grey and its natural colour?
i do not intentionally alter my hair color.
it was incidental to my testing new supplements.
 
dan would receive boxes of free supplements
from companies hoping for a good review
dan gave them to me for testing.
 
the "fun" part of my grey hair
is two different activities -
one which is perfectly natural
and the other is twisted.
 
i have been taking classes
at ucsd for thirty-five years
because there are about eight thousand 
lonely freshman girls there each year
 
and many of them felt ignored
by their fathers during their formative years.
the greyer my hair -
the more attractive they found me.
 
the more nefast use of my greyness
stems from my father's personality-warping
experiences in the korean war.
 
his post-war behavior
toward any thing weaker than him
left me with a smoldering coal of rage
that finds perverse satisfaction
 
with my grey hair,
i seem more vulnerable to bullies
and police assume i am the victim
when they see it - very convenient.
 
so, i use my grey hair
to satisfy two desires -
one healthy and one not, but,
i have that one under control.
 
Could you please list your 3 supplements and the dosage in a single post? I am sure many people like myself would really appreciate it.
ten drops of this in a glass of cold water
every morning on an empty stomach.
 
like hmb, there is no noticeable affect
unless consumed in mass quantities.
i was taking a couple of capsules
every two hours with my meals.
 
anabol naturals' tyrosine:
i have been adding five grams of powder
to my post-exercise drink. taken twice a day.
i have one after weight-lifting
and one after randori or particularly intense sexercise.
 
Mahalo.

Post Edited (lei.talk) : 6/10/2006 8:29:35 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/24/2006 4:11 PM
Lei.Talk can you post pics of your hair so we can see what are you talking about?


That would help us follow you on your treatement with Tyrosine.

Thanks

Post Edited (BartSimpson) : 4/24/2006 4:35:39 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : lei.talk - 4/24/2006 7:21 PM
BartSimpson said...
Lei.Talk can you post pics of your hair so we can see what are you talking about?
when my son up-graded his computer,
a year and a half ago,
he gave me his old one -
which i am using.
 
it does not have a camera.

Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/25/2006 3:22 PM
AssuieDavid

Any new white hair getting its original color?

Please, keep us informed.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 4/25/2006 3:23 PM
I will say to you from my heart and I can guarantee that my method works very well. What will you do if you try using GALINGALE (thanks to Gaizz who found the English word for me) to make your own drink and it works, after 2-3 weeks you see the blonde-like or dark color hair? I hope you will donate the difference between the expensive one and my very less expensive method into my kids’ education fund. If you wish, here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=mr.mikeaveli@hotmail.com&item_name=Anti-Grey%20Hair%20Donations&shipping=0.00&no_note=1¤cy_code=USD&tax=0
I do not know why the people like to spend money for the thing that does not work. As for me, I even don’t like to see my own family doctor because he cannot help me to gain weight that I have the same for more than 3 decades. I even do not know what they are doing in the hospital. Most of all, I do not like to eat fat (oil) and sweet. Thank to people who gives me very nice words, but no thanks to the ones who said that I was (bad word). Because English is not my mother tongue, it’s hard for you to understand me. I am not trying to sell anything to you. I have some Kasai(Dum) or (Black) Galingale for my own use only. Some people don’t like to accept the reality. Up to you to believe, it’s not my concern, I just want to help the desperate people only, and some have been looking for the solution for over 30, 40 years but never found one. Read a lot of books but came up empty. It’s only one way to make you hair back to its color is Bao Saka’way.
Have a good day!

Posted By : Bao Saka - 4/25/2006 3:26 PM
dLaertios said...
Hi to all,

lei.talk
thanks for all useful information/ you provided but I hoped you had found a solution to grey hair. I 've read many times the topic and you wrote at least 3 times something hopeful but then nothing else. I take this as that methods don't work. Hope to find something that works and share it with us.
BartSimpson
I 've read somewhere that a doctor who started greying at 30 took daily supplement of 800 mg of vitamin E and not only reversed it but had a head of black hairs when he was 60 year old as well.

As for me I believe Bao Saka information and try to make a cheap conditioner of garlic - I believe a lot on this vegetable's powers - maybe mixed with apple vinegar or alcohol, as soon as I resolve the smell problems that occur.
If garlic shampoo does not work, then try the second solution that I have the proven record. Use " Kasai (Dum) (black) galingale" (black means Dum) to make your own drink, you will see the result within 2-3 weeks, try it who will have better solution. Let me know after 2-3 weeks time. This is my most valuable secret. Why to spend much money? I try to save every penny for my kids' education, then I use the inexpensive way.
Regards,
Bao Saka.

Posted By : Alaskaed - 4/25/2006 3:27 PM
Here's another link regarding the same product which provides more information.

http://www.rapidnewswire.com/greyhair.htm

Posted By : Alaskaed - 4/25/2006 3:27 PM
I just found this link to a story on a new product called Promel by L Oreal that targets melanocyte production to treat gray hair. Does anyone know if it's legitimate?

http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06/promel.html

Posted By : greyhairvictim1 - 4/26/2006 7:12 PM
Bao Saka said...
I will say to you from my heart and I can guarantee that my method works very well. What will you do if you try using GALINGALE (thanks to Gaizz who found the English word for me) to make your own drink and it works, after 2-3 weeks you see the blonde-like or dark color hair? I hope you will donate the difference between the expensive one and my very less expensive method into my kids’ education fund. If you wish, here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=mr.mikeaveli@hotmail.com&item_name=Anti-Grey%20Hair%20Donations&shipping=0.00&no_note=1¤cy_code=USD&tax=0
I do not know why the people like to spend money for the thing that does not work. As for me, I even don’t like to see my own family doctor because he cannot help me to gain weight that I have the same for more than 3 decades. I even do not know what they are doing in the hospital. Most of all, I do not like to eat fat (oil) and sweet. Thank to people who gives me very nice words, but no thanks to the ones who said that I was (bad word). Because English is not my mother tongue, it’s hard for you to understand me. I am not trying to sell anything to you. I have some Kasai(Dum) or (Black) Galingale for my own use only. Some people don’t like to accept the reality. Up to you to believe, it’s not my concern, I just want to help the desperate people only, and some have been looking for the solution for over 30, 40 years but never found one. Read a lot of books but came up empty. It’s only one way to make you hair back to its color is Bao Saka’way.
Have a good day!


Hi Bao Saka,

Your post sounds very promising. I live in Chicago and I tried to inquire about BLACK krachai from thai grocery stores, but the guy said that they only keep the white krachai and do not keep the black one. They also said that the only way to get the black krachai is get it from Thailand.

Do you know where I can get Black krachai in the US?

If I cannot get black krachai, can I use the white krachai? Will that give similar result?

Thanks

Posted By : AussieDavid - 4/26/2006 7:12 PM

Hi Bartsimpson,

In reply to your question, no, I have not noticed any more hairs that have dark a dark root and grey tip. sad   I figure this is a long term effort.

My Gerovital H3 turned up today and I am unconvinced that it is the real deal. I purchased it from this company:

http://www.gerovitalstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=74

The containers holding the pills were unsealed and the pills enclosed have a peppermint coating. I cut one open and the contents of the pill have an unpleasant taste, so I figure it isn't just a peppermint lolly. I am not, however, convinced that it is real GH3. Has anyone else purchased GH3 from this company? What do your pills look like?

Alaskaed, thanks for the information. I am going to contact L'oreal to try to find out more. I will post any info on here.


Posted By : BartSimpson - 4/26/2006 7:15 PM
I can't believe, looks like L'oreal did it. Now what we need is a official word from the company.

GOD SAVE L'OREAL.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 4/27/2006 1:01 PM
greyhairvictim1 said...
Bao Saka said...
I will say to you from my heart and I can guarantee that my method works very well. What will you do if you try using GALINGALE (thanks to Gaizz who found the English word for me) to make your own drink and it works, after 2-3 weeks you see the blonde-like or dark color hair? I hope you will donate the difference between the expensive one and my very less expensive method into my kids’ education fund. If you wish, here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=mr.mikeaveli@hotmail.com&item_name=Anti-Grey%20Hair%20Donations&shipping=0.00&no_note=1¤cy_code=USD&tax=0
I do not know why the people like to spend money for the thing that does not work. As for me, I even don’t like to see my own family doctor because he cannot help me to gain weight that I have the same for more than 3 decades. I even do not know what they are doing in the hospital. Most of all, I do not like to eat fat (oil) and sweet. Thank to people who gives me very nice words, but no thanks to the ones who said that I was (bad word). Because English is not my mother tongue, it’s hard for you to understand me. I am not trying to sell anything to you. I have some Kasai(Dum) or (Black) Galingale for my own use only. Some people don’t like to accept the reality. Up to you to believe, it’s not my concern, I just want to help the desperate people only, and some have been looking for the solution for over 30, 40 years but never found one. Read a lot of books but came up empty. It’s only one way to make you hair back to its color is Bao Saka’way.
Have a good day!


Hi Bao Saka,

Your post sounds very promising. I live in Chicago and I tried to inquire about BLACK krachai from thai grocery stores, but the guy said that they only keep the white krachai and do not keep the black one. They also said that the only way to get the black krachai is get it from Thailand.

Do you know where I can get Black krachai in the US?

If I cannot get black krachai, can I use the white krachai? Will that give similar result?

Thanks
No in Asian market in US, mostly they sell white one cheaper, but in the Origine country, Laos, yes. Same result with different color. 
Regards,
Bao Saka

Posted By : greyhairvictim1 - 4/27/2006 2:41 PM
Hi Boa Saka,

Just want to make sure. I have attached an image for Krachai. Is this what you are asking us to use? Is this GALINGALE?

Thanks

Posted By : gotsomegray - 4/28/2006 1:22 PM
Lei.talk,
First off, thanks for the advice.  Would you recommend the tyrosine powder that you are taking over a pill supplement?  Do you think there is an advantage to the powder?
 
Bao Saka,
I also want to thank you for your advice.  I found this link to black galingale sold in a pill form.  https://www.thailandunique.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=218  It seems to be marketed as an aphrodisiac.  Do you think this might have the same benefits as your method of taking black galingale?  It just seems difficult to find the black galingale here in the US.
 
AussieDavid, BartSimpson, and everyone else,
It's great to find some people with similar worries.  Hopefully we can keep in contact until we finally find something that seems to work for most everyone.  I'm currently taking Reminex, a multi with zinc/copper, and some L-tyrosine.  I will keep everyone up to date on my progress.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 4/28/2006 1:39 PM
greyhairvictim1, congratulation!
That's the great discovery.

That's the King Galingale. It's big and looks nice. Keep in mind that from region to region, due to soil and weather, it can look slightly different. To make sure, the better way is to ask the store owner. If you can get that big one, you are so lucky. My Kasai is not that big with short fingers, maybe not enough food for it.
Greyhairvictim1, you will be very happy in the next 2 or 3 weeks with your hair. Have a nice day from Baos Saka!

Posted By : greyhairvictim1 - 4/28/2006 1:43 PM
Alaskaed said...
I just found this link to a story on a new product called Promel by L Oreal that targets melanocyte production to treat gray hair. Does anyone know if it's legitimate?

http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06/promel.html


This to me looks like a hoax. I googled for promel and this information is not covered in any major news paper or journals. The above link is the only relevant result that appears in the resuly. There is nothing on L Oreal's website as well.

Posted By : Alaskaed - 4/29/2006 11:23 AM
Well, I guess it was bogus.
Here's what L'Oreal sent me when I queried them.

April 28, 2006



Thank you for visiting L'Oréal Paris on the Web.

Recently, L'Oréal's scientists presented significant new research about what makes hair grow curly or straight, and about why hair turns gray. It is possible that, at some point in the future, these discoveries may lead to a pill that controls hair shape or color. However, such a pill is not available at this time.

We hope this information is helpful.

Sincerely,
Cynthia Bosse
Consumer Affairs Advisor
Ref # 3529851

Posted By : del3 - 5/1/2006 10:54 AM
I am senior female that does not like my gray hair, even though it is time for me to go gray.
 
Found this back in February and they do not have this at my health store.
 
Do not know if the below means that it is for gray hair.
 
Can someone check this out?
Did anyone try the sage tea?  You make some tea and keep parting your hair and rub in the sage tea everyday with a cotton ball.  It grows in little by little.  I tried it and it was growing in a little but not keep it up then the grey comes back.   Will try it again.
 
I personally would like to get my hair to reverse its color from the inside out.
Feel that it is some kind of fat that we need.   Maybe something like flax not the oil it is bad for you.   Any good shampoos that does not make the gray look grayer? 

Cherry Bark and Black Tea Hair Color

Prepare a strong tea from black tea leaves and cherry bark. Use as a rinse after shampooing, finishing with a water rinse.

www.recipegoldmine.com/beautyhair/hair10.html


Posted By : Gaizz - 5/2/2006 11:27 AM
Bao Saka, do you think the Black Galingale in caps have the same benefits as your method? I want to try. Thanks Bao Saka. I will make to know you.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/2/2006 11:36 AM
Gaizz:
It may work but I think it will take very long time to see the result. Other than that there are different types of galingale, if you get the so called Kasai or krachai, that's the real one. If many people want to get the real one, I can order from the source and share with you guys.
Regards,
Bao Saka

Posted By : alfax - 5/3/2006 11:11 AM
Hello Bao Saka

Can u tell us how to make the garlic shampoo u mentioned? Doesn't it leave a bad smell on your hair? Is it effective in the prevention/reversal of gray hair?

Thanks

Posted By : David Morgan - 5/3/2006 11:14 AM
Given the pandemic magnesium deficiency, aggravated by purified water, and endless calcium supplementation,
If you have gray hair, it is likely to be caused by this.

Mg deprivation decreases the acitivty of hair matrix enzymes responsible for melanogenesis. Even the correct supplemental proteins will not overcome this.

AND, it is a sign of worse things to come.
Mg is part of over 300 enzymes in the body.

The mud geyser where the first mitochondria/chloroplast was enveloped was high in Mg.

Posted By : del3 - 5/4/2006 2:29 PM
What does this all mean?   Are you saying we need more magnesium food and lower the calcium?  Or are you saying there is no hope?
 
What does the below mean?
 
Mg deprivation decreases the acitivty of hair matrix enzymes responsible for melanogenesis. Even the correct supplemental proteins will not overcome this.

AND, it is a sign of worse things to come.
Mg is part of over 300 enzymes in the body.
 
So, what are you doing for your grey hair?   Or are you not grey yet?
 
 
Given the pandemic magnesium deficiency, aggravated by purified water, and endless calcium supplementation, if you have gray hair, it is likely to be caused by this.

Mg deprivation decreases the acitivty of hair matrix enzymes responsible for melanogenesis. Even the correct supplemental proteins will not overcome this.

AND, it is a sign of worse things to come.
Mg is part of over 300 enzymes in the body.

The mud geyser where the first mitochondria/chloroplast was enveloped was high in Mg.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/4/2006 2:31 PM
alfax said...
Hello Bao Saka

Can u tell us how to make the garlic shampoo u mentioned? Doesn't it leave a bad smell on your hair? Is it effective in the prevention/reversal of gray hair?

Thanks
alfax, openly speaking, I've never used this garlic shampoo, but I found it in Traditional Medicine book. It said that grind garlic into pieces and add some water, leave it for a while and use that water to shampoo your hair, and your hair will become dark again. It does not give time frame or anything else. We don't know unless we prove it but the use of Kasai(galingale) is my proven method and it really works and quite well, it takes no more than 2-3 weeks time period to see the result. It's amazing.
Regards,
Bao Saka

Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/5/2006 6:11 PM
Anyone already tried Bao Sako method???

Please keep us updated

Posted By : Gaizz - 5/5/2006 6:11 PM
BLACK GALINGALE (Krachai):
http://grocerythai.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=54

http://grocerythai.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/599

http://healing-and-herbs.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=29&osCsid=541967cbf9d329def5436949d24e7e52

http://www.thai4uk.com/acatalog/shop.html?http%3A//www.thai4uk.com/acatalog/Fresh_vegetables.html&CatalogBody

http://www.heuschenschrouff.com/index.php?p=shop&cid=170&selectcountry=&selectbrand=405&prodsearch=&from=20

http://www.ecplaza.net/ecmarket/list.asp?cmd=search&keywords=%22healthy+drink%22

http://www.eximturk.com/viewoffers.php?id=271432&show_mform=true

Post Edited (Gaizz) : 5/6/2006 9:47:03 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : greyhairvictim1 - 5/8/2006 7:38 PM
Bao Saka said...
alfax said...

Hello Bao Saka

Can u tell us how to make the garlic shampoo u mentioned? Doesn't it leave a bad smell on your hair? Is it effective in the prevention/reversal of gray hair?

Thanks
alfax, openly speaking, I've never used this garlic shampoo, but I found it in Traditional Medicine book. It said that grind garlic into pieces and add some water, leave it for a while and use that water to shampoo your hair, and your hair will become dark again. It does not give time frame or anything else. We don't know unless we prove it but the use of Kasai(galingale) is my proven method and it really works and quite well, it takes no more than 2-3 weeks time period to see the result. It's amazing.
Regards,
Bao Saka


Hi Bao Saka,

Thanks for all your posts. I have got some white krachai and and I am about to start your experiment. I believe that in addition to the krachai, your diet may also be playing important role in reversing your hair color. Can you tell us what is your diet routine? What do you eat everyday? Do you think that there is anything else in your diet that could also be playing part in your reversal of hair color? Do you take any vitamins? I am asking this because, I would like to replicate the kind of diet you eat when I start my krachai experiment. THANKS!!

One more question: How do you grind Krachai? In a blender machine? THANKS

Post Edited (greyhairvictim1) : 5/8/2006 6:59:37 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/9/2006 11:08 AM
greyhairvictim1

please keep us updated

do you mind posting before pictures, so we can follow
?

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/9/2006 11:09 AM
greyhairvictim1 said...

Hi Bao Saka,

Thanks for all your posts. I have got some white krachai and and I am about to start your experiment. I believe that in addition to the krachai, your diet may also be playing important role in reversing your hair color. Can you tell us what is your diet routine? What do you eat everyday? Do you think that there is anything else in your diet that could also be playing part in your reversal of hair color? Do you take any vitamins? I am asking this because, I would like to replicate the kind of diet you eat when I start my krachai experiment. THANKS!!

One more question: How do you grind Krachai? In a blender machine? THANKS
It's easy to grind the Kasai, do as you do with another thing, first chop it in pieces then add a bit of water, start your blender, add more water, pour it out to the jug and add some more water. You can leave it in the fridge or you can filter it. Enjoy your drink with lot of good stuffs.
I personally do not take any diet, I eat all and drink all because I want to gain weight, but no luck, I have the same weight, the same look  for over 30 years, I do not take any Vitamines, but I don't like food with oil or sweet stuff. I eat until I feel that it's enough then I stop. Take that food with cooking oil away from me! Let me know about your hair in 2-3 weeks!
Good luck to you with your Kasai!
Bao Saka

Posted By : elliot - 5/10/2006 10:29 AM
"Promel - World's First Drug to Reverse Grey Hair"


          

http://www.rapidnewswire.com/greyhair.htm

RapidNewsWire.com
World's First Drug to Reverse Grey Hair
April 17, 2006


Researchers at the French company Loreal have made a breakthrough discovery that will lead to a new treatment for gray hair. The condition that 100% of all humans will suffer from is now reversible, thanks to the discovery of malfunctioning hair cells known as melanocytes. The team has also identified two genes which determine whether a person's hair will lose its color and at what point in life, which all has resulted in the promotion of a new drug.


The new drug that will be called “Promel” will reactivate dormant melanocyte cells to their original state and the hair will return to it’s original color. The drug to be taken once daily should begin to work in about 3 to 5 weeks, but because hair grows slowly, about 5” per year, the average person will not see noticeable results for 2 to 4 months.

The average male starts to see gray hair by the time they are 30 and females usually start around the age of 35. On average most people are about 50% gray by the time they are 50, but there are various reasons why a person can go grey early, including medical conditions like A B-12 deficiency, a thyroid imbalance, anemia, along with many other conditions that can cause premature graying.

Recently there is also been evidence that smokers are 4 times more likely to go gray prematurely. The new drug is believed to be 85% effective and will be introduced in parts of Europe first, and later in the US in the first half of 2007.April 17, 06“This is the first major advancement in the field of anti-aging therapy, and the most exciting and visible use of such a product”



Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/10/2006 2:45 PM
He have read about Promel, but we can't get confirmation if this is not a hoax.

Posted By : PASSABOX - 5/14/2006 11:08 PM
Hello everybody.

Have tried the Recouleur formula fore more than 90 days and it did not work for me.

6 years ago I heard about the benefits of flaxseed and started to take it, by grinding it in the blender and mix with milk and chocolate in the morning. The result for the graying hair was almost nothing but I still take it today due to other benefits for hair health, digestion, fiber, anticancer and etc.

Will try the Bao Saka root if I can find it in my country, Brazil, and will keep you posted.

Regards to you all

Passabox

Post Edited (PASSABOX) : 5/16/2006 8:09:03 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/15/2006 10:45 AM
PASSABOX i'm Brazilian too! From Florianopolis.

If you can find Bao Sako, please tell me where you found it.
 
-Isn't Bao Sako the name of the poster and krachi the herb? - mod

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/15/2006 12:13 PM
BartSimpson said...
PASSABOX i'm Brazilian too! From Florianopolis.

If you can find Bao Sako, please tell me where you found it.
 
-Isn't Bao Sako the name of the poster and krachi the herb? - mod
BartSimpson, You're right. Bao Saka is the name of the poster and Krachai is the herb that can help your hair back to its original colour.
I hope a lot of people got krachai and having used it and now see something change in their hair (not only hair but a lot of good stuffs for body).
Please post the result here about Bao Saka's method.

Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/15/2006 1:26 PM
Bao Saka

Is this black galingale good? Or does it have to be the powder?

Do I need to apply it topically or can I just take this pills?

https://www.thailandunique.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=58&products_id=218

Thanks!!

Posted By : PASSABOX - 5/15/2006 6:35 PM
BartSimpson,

The similar root we have in Brazil is ginger (gengibre), but think that maybe it does not work because as mentioned by Bao Saka, you have diferent types of roots and soils.

Also, never heard any comments about this benefit from ginger.

As I live in Sao Paulo, I´ll try to find the black krashai in the oriental district in town called Liberdade as well to get some information.  Keep you posted.

Post Edited (PASSABOX) : 5/15/2006 5:41:08 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/15/2006 8:23 PM
thanks PASSABOX!

Now if anyone already in the treatment could post their testimonial, we would appreciate. This would lead us to the right direction.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/16/2006 12:15 PM
BartSimpson said...
Bao Saka

Is this black galingale good? Or does it have to be the powder?

Do I need to apply it topically or can I just take this pills?

https://www.thailandunique.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=58&products_id=218

Thanks!!
I think I like the one that I can see it's real, because in the ginger family, there are different types of ginger. It's really good. Read my old posts. It's written in the Traditional Medicine Book. Now, if you search the web, in the term of sex life Thai said it's Thai Viagra. It benefits a lot of different things, not only for the hair. If you use the tea-like (in the small pack) or pills, I think it will take very long time to reach your expectation. But, if you use like drink, it will give you the result within 2-3 week time. I use it daily, I feel great, not tired, no back pain. Just called my brother to send me another 40lbs of dry ones, it will last me for years. If you guys want it, I can share. Bao Saka.

Posted By : reverse - 5/16/2006 12:16 PM
Been doing the Bao Saka experiment for a week now. Nothing yet to post. I plan to do it for a month or so. I will let everyone know of any results. I have tried almost everything else so why not this?

Posted By : Jinxsie - 5/16/2006 1:06 PM

Just discovered this forum and the many interesting issues and debates on here about reversing grey hair.  While I know that the main focus here is in getting at the cause and reversing it I have a conundrum which someone may be able to shed some light on.

I am 50 and have been going grey since 28 or so.  For the last 15 years I have used a 'progressive hair dye' as they are called.  The one I have used is called Restoria cream here in the UK.  This has covered my gray pretty well.  Suddenly 2 months ago it pretty much stopped working.  I increased the application to daily instead of alternate days but nothing much. I have changed products to Grecian to see if that has any effect.  The best I can get is a blondish reddish hue instead of the medium/ dark brown I got before.  Also when I wash my hair I get brown water. Yuk!

My theory - yet to be proven - is that bismuth citrate, which is now used in these products in Europe instead of lead acetate (because of a lead poisoning scare I think), doesn't work in the same way.  I think lead acetate is still used in the US but maybe not Canada.  My suspicion is that bismuth citrate doesn't oxidise as much on the surface of the hair and/or doesn't penetrate to the cortex of the hair as much and that is what is causing the problem. 

Some of you guys seem to know a lot about chemistry....any views as to what is going on?  Thanks!

 


Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/17/2006 10:31 AM
reverse

what did you get? Powder Kashai? Pills? Topical? What doses?

Please post your regimen

Posted By : reverse - 5/18/2006 7:45 PM
I found some of this root at the Asian Market. It was frozen and prepackaged. I do what Bao Saka said to do. I blend it in a blender with water and drink 3 tall glasses per day -- I even drink the solid bits of sediment at the bottom of the drink. As for the Black or White Krachi, there was only one kind (I believe it is the white) at the market. I asked for Black but no one seemed to know what I meant. It was said in prior posts that the black was only considered black because of the inside of the root not the outside. The inside of the root is white. My original hair color is light/medium brown so according to the Bao Saka method, I should be fine. Either way, I'm just looking to see any repigmentation of my hair.

As of right now, nothing to mention. The stuff is cheap to buy so I will continue to try this experiment for a little while longer. If Bao Saka's claims are true, I will have NO PROBLEM donating something to his kid's college fund. I have tried Melancor, Recouleur, Brewer's Yeast, diets with a high vitamin B intake, extra copper, wheat germ smoothies, etc… and no results. I do hope Bao Saka's method works.

Bao Saka, did you actually regain pigmentation of you hair color by taking this root of have you just all together delayed the graying process by taking this root?

Posted By : PASSABOX - 5/18/2006 10:28 PM
reverse,

are you sure that the root is "krashai"?
in my country, brazil, we have the same family root ginger, but don't think it has the same property.  as said, will check the asian market this weekend.

for the time being, found this site but in danish where they sell pills:

http://healing-and-herbs.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=51&osCsid=d9e2031cca825e81274319653df78aad

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/19/2006 3:06 PM

By taking this Kasai, you will regain pigmentation of your hair, it does not mean that to delay the graying process, you will see its dark color from the root. I would like to show you guys the photo of my neighbor who is 67 years old with all gray hair. Now he is so happy because his hair is back to its color but not black due to the use of white kasai, it's like-brown.  It looks so nice because he does not need to hilight it. You do not need to eat or drink the sediment, just water it's O.K, if you leave it for a bit long, you will see the white stuff on the bottom, that's do not need to drink too, it's nothing. That's why I recommend to leave that ground kasai in the big jug and/or filter it later. Thanks for your kindness and your consideration upon my kids. Remember, the more you drink, the faster you will see the result. This drink is much better than commercial pop drink. With 1/4 lb of kasai, you can add 2 litres of water, up to you who like thick or thin, < 2litres or > 2litres. I am waiting for my Magic Bullet blender from eBay, will use it to grind my kasai, that's why I am late night to check my mail.

Wish you a very happy expectation!

Bao Saka

reverse said...
I found some of this root at the Asian Market. It was frozen and prepackaged. I do what Bao Saka said to do. I blend it in a blender with water and drink 3 tall glasses per day -- I even drink the solid bits of sediment at the bottom of the drink. As for the Black or White Krachi, there was only one kind (I believe it is the white) at the market. I asked for Black but no one seemed to know what I meant. It was said in prior posts that the black was only considered black because of the inside of the root not the outside. The inside of the root is white. My original hair color is light/medium brown so according to the Bao Saka method, I should be fine. Either way, I'm just looking to see any repigmentation of my hair.

As of right now, nothing to mention. The stuff is cheap to buy so I will continue to try this experiment for a little while longer. If Bao Saka's claims are true, I will have NO PROBLEM donating something to his kid's college fund. I have tried Melancor, Recouleur, Brewer's Yeast, diets with a high vitamin B intake, extra copper, wheat germ smoothies, etc… and no results. I do hope Bao Saka's method works.

Bao Saka, did you actually regain pigmentation of you hair color by taking this root of have you just all together delayed the graying process by taking this root?


Posted By : reverse - 5/19/2006 3:08 PM
No I am not entirely sure. What I have looks like the picture that was submitted in a prior post that Bao Saka said was it. Someone posted a pic and what I have looks exactly like that - kind of like crab claw clusters. If I do have the wrong stuff I want to find the right stuff soon. All the package says is: Frozen Rhizome Whole (spice). If you know I have the wrong stuff please let me know.

Posted By : PASSABOX - 5/19/2006 9:07 PM
Went to the asian market here in Sao Paulo this afternoon to learn that over here we only have the regular ginger.
Asked some orientals if they ever heard or saw any type of brown or black ginger like, but the answer was no.
One oriental shop owner mentioned to me that there are not other roots here because there is no demand for it.
So, lost my hope to find it down here. Anyway, bought some ginger and will take it for a month the way Bao Saba explained, just to check.
By the way Bao Saka, is there any way for you to send the root to us or some seeds??

Post Edited (PASSABOX) : 5/19/2006 8:40:45 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : greyhairvictim1 - 5/19/2006 9:09 PM
Hi Bao Saka,

Can you tell whether your method works on facial hair such as beard and mustache also?

Thanks

Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/22/2006 11:45 AM
Bao Saka, do you know any online store that sells it?

Posted By : reverse - 5/22/2006 11:47 AM
VIEW IMAGE    
 
Bao Saka,
 
Here is a picture of what I was told is krachai.  Is this the stuff I need? 

Posted By : greyhairvictim1 - 5/22/2006 11:49 AM
In January 2005 someone posted the following post in this thread (it is on the first page, but I have copied it below). It talks about taking 9 of the brewer's yeast. Can anyone tell what it means by "8 of the brewer's yeast"? Is it recommedning 8 different types of brewers yeast or does it just refer to the brewers yeast you get from manufacturers like Twinlab etc?

Thanks. I will appreciate any insight.


====================================
One great though to remove grey hair would be to use the following nutrients:


smhair 1. Pantothenic acid
2. PABA
3. Brewer's yeast

Take the recommended dosage of the PABA and the pantothenic acid and take 8 of the brewer's yeast.

Take them all daily! Watch what happens to your roots in a couple of months.

Hope this works for you.

Let me know!

Dennis James
monahanspipes@aol.com
Life Extension Member

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/22/2006 11:56 AM
As I have mentioned, you will see the slightly different roots or rhizomes due to the soil and weather or the care of the farmers. Some will grow very well, some will have long fingers, some will have shorter ones, some will have none. Do not worry, please! If the store owner told you guys that it was Kasai or Krachai or Ngai Bun, then trust them. Please follow my posts! I repeat: The white one, you will see inside white, the black one, you will see inside black. The taste between 2 galingales is very small different. It can be found in the region (only), not the whole country, some people will know, but some will not. The people in my region call this galingale as " King Dum", that means BLACK GINGER (easy for them to use or call). They do plant just for medication only, mostly individual.
As for Reverse: I think you got the right one. I mentioned about pic of my neighbor who's just made his hair back to its color using my method.
As for PASSABOX: I do not think that they grow in your country. This galingale can be found only in Laos and Thailand. I can send it to you but not the fresh one due to the law. I grow some in my backyard now.
As for Greyhairvictim1: It can work on beard and mustache because it works on hair.
You may drink Kasai juice or water 2-4 glasses/day. I use 1 sp of dry Kasai that I grind it/ 2 litres of water.You may make your own black Kasai wine or you may add Kasai into liquor. Bao Saka experiment works and only one way that you can use herb from your backyard to become your golden medicine. Remember, not only for hair!. I do not like the commercial product, it can contain more than the item I need. Please let me know the result you get after using 2-3 weeks. Good luck to all!
Bao Saka

Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/22/2006 2:22 PM
okay... i will try to find online some seeds, will keep u guys updated

Posted By : PASSABOX - 5/22/2006 6:54 PM
Bao Saka,
thanks for your explanations.
can you send some seeds also?
how do we handle for you to post?

Reverse,
could you send a larger picture?
where are you from?

rgds to you all.

Posted By : flowergirl - 5/23/2006 4:24 PM
have been following this thread for a while now, and had to log on just to say, bao saka seems to be having a laugh with all of you. especially when he used the "king dum" reference...

whereas the promel from l'oreal sounds like a real thing that will come out sometime soon.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/23/2006 4:25 PM

If I have seeds, then I can send them to you to grow by yourself. But I've never seen the seed of galingale or ginger. The young leaves are good for cooking too, haha. I cannot send the fresh one, only the dry one and it must be chopped in pieces ( this is an explanation from my brother) or parcel will not be allowed to send at all. If we use seeds, then it will take a long time to grow, here in Canada, it's impossible, We have warm weather from June to september only, galingale cannot survive in winter. 2 lbs of dry galingale will last for long time, at least 6 months. At that time you will see no gray hair any more.

Regards,

Bao Saka.

PASSABOX said...
Bao Saka,
thanks for your explanations.
can you send some seeds also?
how do we handle for you to post?

Reverse,
could you send a larger picture?
where are you from?

rgds to you all.

Posted By : zorba990 - 5/23/2006 4:26 PM
Here is a link to Black Galingale wine
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/10909738/Black_Galingale_Wine_For_Sexuality.html

When using imported herbal products, though, it is wise to be cautious, since some recent reports of metal toxicity (due to the soil they are grown in) have been reported.

It looks like this herb has properties similar to Ho Shou Wu (Fo-Ti).

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/24/2006 12:29 PM
I do not have any laugh, I am quite happy that the ones who follow my method will get very good benefit in their health and their hair. The word "King Dum" means the language the regional people use to communicate between themselves, they mean BLACK GALINGALE ( Kasai Dum): black means dum, Galingale means king. I do not mind if you use promel, that's your choice.
flowergirl said...
have been following this thread for a while now, and had to log on just to say, bao saka seems to be having a laugh with all of you. especially when he used the "king dum" reference...

whereas the promel from l'oreal sounds like a real thing that will come out sometime soon.

Posted By : zorba990 - 5/24/2006 12:31 PM
Although DMAE-H3 has worked for me, I thought you guys might want to see another option:

http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/graying.php

Posted By : reverse - 5/24/2006 12:31 PM
I am from the USA. I will try to send a larger pic but that was how it was attached. Still doing this experiment (over 2 weeks now) and nothing.

about the Promeal product from L'oreal, you should check prior posts. Another member was told no such product exists when he/she asked L'oreal about the product. The member posted L'oreal's response. Also, there is no mention about this product on their official website. The only source that mentions Promeal is Rapid Newswire. I queried Rapid Newswire about the source(s) used to get the article about Promeal -- they never responded :(

Posted By : reverse - 5/24/2006 12:32 PM
here is the label on the package.  i hope you can see it.  i don't know how to make either pic larger

Posted By : b4its2late - 5/24/2006 3:38 PM

I have been eating fresh Krachai (white Krachai) for a week - no change yet.

Fresh white Krachai is available in every Thai "supermarket" in London. It definitely gives me loads of energy and seems to send blood up to the head!

I have not found a source of Black Krachai (Krachai Dam) in the UK - it is only available as pills or as Black Galingale Wine.

Bao Sako seems quite genuine to me.


Posted By : gotsomegray - 5/25/2006 11:08 AM

about the response from L'Oreal on Promel, I wouldn't expect anyone in L'Oreal's customer service department to have information on products that haven't even been released yet.  That doesn't mean it's not faulty information, but I don't think that disputes it yet either.

I may try Bao Saka's method sometime soon.  I think that he is genuine also.  If it works for even one person on here then I give him credit.

 


Posted By : flowergirl - 5/25/2006 11:11 AM
ok, am waiting to hear your news, all who are trying the bao saka method.

did anyone try the bimatoprost? aussiedavid you were gonna try, any news?

Posted By : island808 - 5/25/2006 3:03 PM
Bao Saka,  Early on you requested that, in exchange for your info on kasai, people might decide to contribute to your son's education fund. If kasai is as excellent and effective as you claim, seems to me you are positioned to make big money importing and selling this herb in the states; maybe bring in a lot more cash than you will receive as contributions you've requested.  Are you thinking about this idea? Is this possibly a business arrangement you could work out with Life Extension Foundation? I suspect that many of us would prefer to purchase your product, rather than waste a lot of time and energy wandering around on the internet or in Asian groceries searching for this apparently unusual black kasai.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/26/2006 12:09 PM

I think Black Kasai can be found in the Asian market in North America, but none of you found it, I am sad. I know it's not easy for you to get the Real Black Galingale. If anyone has business plan, I want to hear from. Just a phone call, I can get this galingale from the source. I don't think so that I will become rich from my formula using this herb. Thank you for reading my posts. Please have a big laugh when you see your hair get back to its original color. PM me if you want.

Regards,

Bao Saka

island808 said...
Bao Saka,  Early on you requested that, in exchange for your info on kasai, people might decide to contribute to your son's education fund. If kasai is as excellent and effective as you claim, seems to me you are positioned to make big money importing and selling this herb in the states; maybe bring in a lot more cash than you will receive as contributions you've requested.  Are you thinking about this idea? Is this possibly a business arrangement you could work out with Life Extension Foundation? I suspect that many of us would prefer to purchase your product, rather than waste a lot of time and energy wandering around on the internet or in Asian groceries searching for this apparently unusual black kasai.


Posted By : greybeard - 5/28/2006 6:28 PM
zorba990 said...
Although DMAE-H3 has worked for me, I thought you guys might want to see another option:

http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/graying.php
I already mentioned this on page # 6 of this thread... I have yet to hear from anyone that ordered it though. I may order it but lipoxidil has a bad rap on a lot of the hairloss boards. 
 
 
on the Black Kasai, a Laosian friends says she can get it for me... we shall see. I told her I wanted it for treating gray hair, but since I have no visible gray showing she thinks I want it for other purposes :p

Posted By : steve1368 - 5/28/2006 6:33 PM
Bao Saka,

Interesting to read about Black Galingale.

I live in Malaysia, neighbouring country to Thailand, if you don't mind can I have your brothers e-mail so that I can communicate with him, maybe he can tell me where I can purchase black Galingale in Malaysia and what's the Malaysian local name for black Galingale.

If not possible to purchase in Malaysia, alternatively I can buy from him directly.

Thanks a lot.

Posted By : reverse - 5/28/2006 8:00 PM
News: Been doing the Bao Saka experiment for a little over 3 weeks now; nothing has changed. I would love to report that my hair has reverted back to its original color but it has not. Just thought I'd let everyone know.

Posted By : magha - 5/29/2006 11:41 AM
Hi guys,

I am also trying to find reversal for gray and hairloss. Been reading the latest on hairloss products. Forced hair regrowth, if any, will usually be very fine,slow, and stays at stage one. Caffeine and capsicum are suppose to initiate a thickening phase. The problems I find is that capsicum kills the nerve by allowing in calcium ions. And caffeine is a diuretic which eventually dehydrates and suppresses the hair follicle as does alcohol. Most products have alcohol. Capsicum and peppers are used for graying as well. Are these negative actions controllable/reversible? How can something initiate thickening yet eventually suppress the follicle? Who knows. We can only try and see. These are agents applied from the outside, and the concentration is many times stronger than you could ever ingest. So if there are agents we could ingest that stimulate the follicle root as part of the whole, it would be the way to go.

'reverse', hang-in, I think you are expecting things too soon. Think about how long herbals need to take affect, and think about the hair foliicle phases of growth. I'd give a min of 6 months to see anything. I'm 'rooting' for this (pun intended). I'd definitely like to try the Black Galingale wine. Alcohol preseves the herb and make it assmilate digestion almost immediately. The dehyrating effects of alcohol when ingested can be reversed immediately, and this may be the case with the skin, with the correct agent.

For hair regrowth (and speeding color changes) we need to look at the growth of fingernails. What makes them grow quicker? I think hydration is a key of many things here. Collagen type II, glycerol, silica, hyaluronic acid, etc. This may speed current follicle growth to see any color changes faster. This may not grow hair on the bald spot but will make your current hair move quicker. There may be something to lycopene/niacin/brewers yeast. Lycopene is a pigment, but the melanin cycle needs to be jump-started some way. Maybe tyrosine can be added to the mix. Remember if your drink enough carrot juice your skin turns orange. We see it very soon only because the skin is an organ of immediate elimination. They sell pills to tan the skin this way.

Anyway keep trying, one of us is bound to find something effective. If we stop, we get nowhere for sure.

Posted By : Bao Saka - 5/29/2006 11:44 AM
reverse:
Don't worry! Please keep using that galingale, and you will see what you are expecting for. Some people will take shorter, but some people will take a bit longer. Another factor is how often you drink or you use it and how thick or thin is your galingale juice.
Regards,
Bao Saka

Posted By : zorba990 - 5/29/2006 11:45 AM
3 weeks are you kidding? 3-6 months would be a bare minimum if you are looking for a nutritional effect.

Posted By : reverse - 5/29/2006 8:35 PM
Bao Saka said 2 to 4 weeks for this root to take effect.  Just thought I'd give everyone an update.  I also shave my head daily so my roots come in that quick.  I will continue to take this root and do the experiment but I am doubtful at this stage.  I will still give updates but will probably stop after a few months. 
 
I have tried so many other things in case any of you out there are considering these products: Melancor (rip off), Recloeur, Melatonin/alcohol application, Brewer's Yeast, copper, tyrosine, DMAE, PABA, high vitamin B intake and a few others I cannot recall at the moment. 
 
I really do hope the Bao Saka method works as none of the others I have mentioned has. 

Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/29/2006 8:35 PM
I live in Brazil, so it is freaking hard for me to get the King Dum.

We NEED more people trying this method, or we are not going to be able to achieve a conclusion.

Bao Saka, can you sell me some of your King Dum?

If so, I intend to buy thorugh air mail to get here soon.

Write me back please.

Posted By : island808 - 5/30/2006 11:01 AM
Bao Saka,  Living in Honolulu, I thought I'd have a pretty good shot at tracking down black kasai; this  town being a melting pot for folks from Asian countries. But I walked all around Chinatown, asked for kasai in probably a dozen herb and grocery stores, and had no luck. I also showed them the list of different names you say the plant is called in different countires. I did finally locate an Asian grocery that has kasai from Thailand; that's the way the packaging was labeled. So I bought the kasai. But when I later cut the root open, I could immediately see it wasn't the black variety you recommend.  My impression is that the Chinese have never even heard of this plant.  Maybe my best bet is locating a Thai market, but haven't found one yet. The two Vietnamese places I went into didn't have it.

Posted By : PASSABOX - 5/30/2006 11:49 PM
Bao Saka root is a natural product that works from inside out, not the other way.
As any natural product, the results will depend from person to person.
I took the Recouleur formula with no results for 3 months, the deadline that the pharmaceutic gave me.
For any other try, to see something you might wait at least that long for any result.
As I mentioned previously, I have been taking flaxseed form more than 6 years and for me it works wonderfully.
I started because I heard that it could also reverse the grey hair, but had no results. On the other hand, it´s good for the hair, intestine, digestion, colesterol and anticancer too.
Anyone experiencing hairloss should try this. Costs nothing.
For me, any other way as dying or outside in way is natural.
I think that what the most of us in this forum is looking for is in this way, by what I have read in all these threads.
Otherwise, we would just go to the pharmacy in the next corner and buy a dying lotion...!
 
- Think you mean to say Bao Saka's root, as Bao Saka is the name of the forum member. - mod

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 5/30/2006 10:52:31 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : BartSimpson - 5/31/2006 11:35 AM
PASSABOX

is flaxseed - semente de linho ?

can i get flaxseed in a regular supermarket?

how should i take it? and how much? daily?

Thanks for the answer

Posted By : greyhairvictim1 - 5/31/2006 11:35 AM
Some guy talks about how taking arginine can help in restoring hair color at the following link. Has anyone tried it?

http://www.theyoungjerk.com/gray_hair

Posted By : lad - 5/31/2006 11:36 AM
UNLESS I've mistaken it for "Boesenbergia Rotunda" - :-) which is also available at the same ebay link.

Here is another direct source:
http://www.midphurua.com/e_version/faq.html

Posted By : lad - 5/31/2006 11:37 AM
Krachai Dam, AKA "black ginger" or more properly "Kaempferia Parviflora"

another source;

http://stores.ebay.com/Thai-Herbal-Products

No luck yet finding a local distributor for fresh product.

Posted By : magha - 5/31/2006 11:37 AM
Ok guys FYI,
 
I haven't tried this yet for color but sounds interesting, for at least until we can get something going with these supplements. Its not really what I'm after but it might work from the outside.
 

Posted By : lad - 5/31/2006 1:27 PM
Youthhair = generic Grecian Formula = lead acetate.
 
Obviously works, but most don't want to risk it, I suppose.

Posted By : greybeard - 5/31/2006 4:15 PM
magha said...
Ok guys FYI,
 
I haven't tried this yet for color but sounds interesting, for at least until we can get something going with these supplements. Its not really what I'm after but it might work from the outside.
 
As already mentioned, this is a lead acetate based "progress" hair coloring solution like Grecian. A guy I work with has used this and he said he liked it better than Grecian. Personally I like Just For Men. One shade lighter for my beard (which is where the grey is)
 
 


Posted By : RAJ - 5/31/2006 6:09 PM

Hi Everyone, I am a newbie.  LEF is great.  And, this is a great topic for discussion.  I am digesting all of this.  I have been asking some of these questions for years, finally some answers...thanks again.  I will contribute once I read through ALL the posts.

RAJ


Healing comes in many forms, it begins with you!


Posted By : judith wynhausen - 6/1/2006 11:22 AM
I've come to love my grey hair--actually it is now turning more silver, and is quite beautiful.

Posted By : magha - 6/1/2006 11:37 AM
Hi guys,
 
here is some interesting info from a press release years ago. Zorba had also mentioned some about this before. Stem cells are associated with blood, bone marrow (i.e. hgb, hct, iron, etc.) and bone(i.e. vanadyl, boron, silica, cu, zi, flouride, cal, testosterone, estrogen, etc.). I think it not so much increasing the raw materials but the ability to utilze the raw materials (supplements).. Of course there is the 'all-overseeing' genetic factor, but things can be maximized.
 
What we need is to kick up all production to maximum potential. Vo2 max for blood parameters and mass for bone capacity. That way we utilize the additional raw materials. The supplements are only that, just taking them does little. But when the body is forced to use more of something, then we will have results other than what is now. Change is the product of doing something different than what we are used to. In my opinion it has to happen on the whole outwards, not by just taking in small parts in attempt to influence the whole.
 
 
March 20, 2003— The delicate interplay of two chemical signals coaxes stem cells into becoming hair follicles, according to new research by scientists at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute at The Rockefeller University.

The research has implications for understanding hair growth and hair-follicle development, and it may also help explain how diverse structures, such as teeth and lungs, are formed or how some forms of skin cancer develop.

In an article published in the March 20, 2003, issue of the journal Nature, researchers led by HHMI investigator Elaine Fuchs at The Rockefeller University discovered that two signaling molecules, Wnt and noggin, influence immature stem cells to begin the process of forming hair follicles . . .


Posted By : AussieDavid - 6/3/2006 11:46 AM

I just wanted to update the forum on my progress (or lack thereof) in attempting to reverse my grey hair. My current routine is as follows:

1) 6 caps/day 'He shou Wu' (Am using Active Herb 'Hair Vive' brand).

2) 5ml/day Liquid Cats Claw (I get this from Macro Life in Sydney).

3) Approx 4g/day Tyrosine Powder (Currently using Musashi Brand, but just ordered LEF Tryosine powder).
 
4) Am taking daily multivitamin with 2 g copper in it. Have just ordered the LEF mix with 1 g copper, as well as some Twinlab copper caps, so will start those when my current mulitvitamins are all used (Am going to take the Twinlab copper 3 times/week).
 
5) I was using Gerovital GH3, but stopped because I was not sure of the authenticity of the product. I have just ordered some Twinlab DMAE H3.
 
6) I was just reading back through the forum and found references to Bimatoprost. I am going to see if I can track this down in Australia and apply it topically.
 
7) Have started using Trans-D-Tropin to stimulate HGH release (was previously using injectible HGH).
 
I posted a link to pics on an earlier post, showing 2 hairs that had grey tips, but dark regrowth. Since then, I have found an additional 2 hairs with exactly the same thing. I actually pulled them out and have kept them as some inspiration to keep going with this. Overall, not exactly great results. I am still totally grey on the sides and most of the top. It's hard to judge results, but I think that my greying has stabilised....ie, it doesn't seem to be getting any worse on the top. I actually think that I had a copper/zinc imbalance that caused me to go grey. My older brother has some grey, but nothing too noticeable. My younger brother (2 years younger) has no grey at all. Up until recently I had been taking zinc supplementation for the past 2-3 years, both through a multivitamin and additional bio zinc tablets. My greying has significantly advanced during that time. I have read some articles about how too much zinc can affect copper absorption and I think this may have happened to me.
 
I'll keep the forum updated on my progress.
 
 

Posted By : AussieDavid - 6/3/2006 11:48 AM

I was just doing a search on Bimatoprost and found a link to some patents in regards to using it for reversing grey hair.

This is the link:

http://www.freshpatents.com/Methods-for-the-treatment-of-gray-hair-using-cyclopentane-ene--heptan-en-oic-acid-amides-dt20050317ptan20050058614.php?type=description

If you scroll down to the bottom of the link, there are descriptions of how to make topical applications.

Can someone with pharmaceutical knowledge please give a professional opinion on this?


Posted By : kiki - 6/3/2006 11:49 AM
Hey everyone, just wanted to mention that I'm a new member to the forum and that this thread particularly interests me. Believe it or not I'm only 14 and already have premature grey hairs, quite a lot of them too. I too am very interested by the promise of reversing grey hairs - here's to hope it'll be achieved someday soon!

Posted By : jennifer - 6/5/2006 10:53 AM
hi ot03
re grey hair & your post in the LEF forum about copper been the answer...do u know how much & in what form 2 take it & also does LEF have this form of copper? thanks heaps. regards. jennifer

if LEF has any answers or anything 2 add 2 the above pls do.

Posted By : larryj - 6/5/2006 10:54 AM
- Genistein is a tyrosine kinase inhibitor.
- Genistein is found in beans.
- Asians consume a lot of soybeans.
- Gleevec is a tyrosine kinase inhibitor.
- Bean sprouts may have much more genistein than the beans.
- When the tyrosine kinase is blocked, does the tyrosinase, precursor to melanin, activity increase?
 
- Gleevec reversed the gray hair on the majority of its users.
- Some people consuming bean sprouts got back their original hair color, like Ann Wigmore (the wheatgrass lady).
- Asians seem to get gray hair much later in life compared to the Europeans.
- If Bao Saka's method works the way as he claims, is it possible to analyze that root for its tyrosine kinase inhibition?
 
Can someone comment/correct the above findings?

Posted By : reverse - 6/5/2006 10:55 AM
Interesting about the Bimatoprost.

Posted By : aironeous - 6/5/2006 10:55 AM
Go back to (i think it was) the first post I made on here if you want to see how to make a hair follicule out of "nothing." It is not really nothing but you know what I'm saying. I believe I posted a link on that post to a website something like clonemyhair.com. Why hasn't anyone mentioned the product that keeps getting airtime all over the TV channels here in L.A. called Scalpmed for balding?It has the whole thickening and nutrients and antiandrogens with growth factors parts in their kits.

Posted By : Bhavani - 6/6/2006 10:38 AM
Has anyone tried Reminex?

Posted By : gotsomegray - 6/6/2006 11:31 AM

Bhavani,

I have tried Reminex for just over two months now.  I can't say that I have noticed any change yet but I'm going to keep with it for at least a few more months.  I'm trying that along with Tyrosine so I'll keep you posted.


Posted By : Bhavani - 6/7/2006 1:56 PM
thanks for keeping me posted.  I have been using fo-ti for almost 2 months as well.  Nothing happening yet but I know it takes awhile.  I thought the Reminex with the fo-ti and additional supplements might be a better synergy.  I spoke to someone at the company and they said it does take up to 9 months to start seeing reversal of gray hair.  Just a matter of patience , huh :p .

Posted By : b4its2late - 6/9/2006 4:28 PM
Bimatoprost is available in the UK over the counter as eye drops. Surely this is a "topical" application?

Posted By : greyhairvictim1 - 6/9/2006 4:40 PM
I stumbled upon this:

http://www.herbchina2000.com/therapies/LGH.shtml

The link gives statistics about the success rate and the herbs they use to prepare their product. They ask you a detail questions (just like the one you are asked when you visit any clininc) and then they prepare the formula based on your needs.

It is an expensive treatment though. Wonder if anyone wants to try this out.

Posted By : gotsomegray - 6/9/2006 4:40 PM
No problem.  I am skeptical, but I may try Reminex for that long just so I can say for sure whether it worked for me.  I'll consider it my contribution to the research on this forum.  I'm still hoping to hear from more people on here who are trying Bao Saka's method.
 
 

Posted By : Bhavani - 6/9/2006 7:10 PM

gotsomegray,

I did some research on the rhizome that Bao Saka spoke of.  I found a site to order the plant - I think it is the same variety - and I ordered several of them.  I still have to do further research about harvesting the root but if I got lucky and found the right plant I'll let you know.


Posted By : reverse - 6/11/2006 3:05 PM
It's been over 5 weeks doing the Bao Saka experiment and nothing to report. No change in my hair color. Actually I have noticed more white hairs, especially on my neckline. Wish I could say this root has changed my hair color back to brown but as of now, doing the experiment for 5 weeks, nothing. I will say I believe I have the white krachai and not the black.

Posted By : flowergirl - 6/11/2006 3:08 PM
Jjust read the link that aussiedavid posted about the bimatoprost and patents.

http://www.freshpatents.com/Methods-for-the-treatment-of-gray-hair-using-cyclopentane-ene--heptan-en-oic-acid-amides-dt20050317ptan20050058614.php?type=description

This looks the most genuinely effective treatment there is for gray hair reversal. If its sold over the counter as eye drops, surely that would be a suitable solution to test on the hair. Is there anyone at LEF who could advise us on this?
 
- Questions for LEF are sent to advisory@lifeextension.com - Mod

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/12/2006 9:50 AM
I think you need more information on why Bimatoprost causes this effect. Bimatoprost is a synthetic prostaglandin. So this immediately makes me ask the question what natural prostaglandin is it possibly substituting for in its effect in treating glaucoma, and does the upregulation of that natural prostaglandin also effect pigmentation?

Now I am making an assumption here, and it may be that there is no natural prostaglandin that will effect pigmentation. But, in my experience, nearly every pharmaceutical has a more natural, safer, alternative that works nearly as well without the associated side effects that pharmaceuticals seem to always have.

Also, some prostaglandins have inflammatory effects e.g. E2 so the pathways need some clarification.

Can anyone draw a pathway from a prostaglandin to melanin synthesis, release, etc?

Posted By : PASSABOX - 6/12/2006 9:53 AM
Reverse,
I attached a picture and the features:
Black Kra - Shy or Black Ginseng (Kaempferia parviflora)
Features
Black ginseng is a short-lived herbaceous plant with dark-purple, ginger- like underground stems called rhizomes. Round- or oval-shaped leaves sprout from the rhizome. Bracts enclose flower clusters in whose midst comprise dark - purple flowers.
 
BartSimpson:
Yeah, what I meant is "linhaca". I sent you a private message of the features in portuguese.

 

Posted By : island808 - 6/12/2006 9:53 AM
One of the most recent fad items appearing in some healthfood stores locally is Tibetan gojiberrys. These are packages of small red dried berries. They are claimed to have all sorts of health properties. A friend, who is 50 and just starting to get some gray hair, tells me she's been eating a small handful of these berries each day for a few weeks and already she's noticing her returning to it's original color.
Anyone else have knowledge about or experience with gojiberries?

Posted By : Bhavani - 6/12/2006 10:17 AM
Reverse,
Where did you purchase your root from and what application of it did you use?

Posted By : flowergirl - 6/12/2006 2:02 PM
have taken goji berries on and off for a while, never noticed any effect on my hair. i only take a handful a day so that may be why, or maybe it just had no effect!

Posted By : flowergirl - 6/12/2006 2:08 PM
zorba990 said...
I think you need more information on why Bimatoprost causes this effect. Bimatoprost is a synthetic prostaglandin. So this immediately makes me ask the question what natural prostaglandin is it possibly substituting for in its effect in treating glaucoma, and does the upregulation of that natural prostaglandin also effect pigmentation?

Now I am making an assumption here, and it may be that there is no natural prostaglandin that will effect pigmentation. But, in my experience, nearly every pharmaceutical has a more natural, safer, alternative that works nearly as well without the associated side effects that pharmaceuticals seem to always have.

Also, some prostaglandins have inflammatory effects e.g. E2 so the pathways need some clarification.

Can anyone draw a pathway from a prostaglandin to melanin synthesis, release, etc?


how can we find out which natural prostaglandin its derived from? always prefer the natural alternative!

Posted By : reverse - 6/12/2006 4:43 PM
I purchased my krachai from an Asain grocery store in here in Florida.  I posted a picture of the root in a prior post.  It has long fingers:
 

Bhavani: 
I grind it in a blender with water and put it in a pitcher and drink 3-6 glasses per day (the entire pitcher).  I would drink gallons of it I knew it would work!
Passabox:
My root looks different than the one you posted.  It has long fingers.  There was a ginger root that looked like the one you posted but I thought the one with “longer fingers” was the correct one according to Bao Saka.  My root also does not have that deep purple color to it like the one you posted.  Maybe that is why I haven’t seen any results?  Surely there are other members trying the experiment?  Anyone who has been getting any results, please share.  I have seen no change and I think it’s been 6 weeks or so.
Well, I’m sure the cure for hair repigmentation will be discovered by a major cosmetic company like L’Oreal someday.  I do hope it is soon.  I also hope that if someone finds a reliable way to reverse gray hair on this forum, they will share.  Getting excited for rip-off products like Melancor NH and Recoleur has made me a skeptic.  Though I should mention both products have not been endorsed by the FDA to cure gray hair.  I knew this before purchasing these products but assumed the FDA is just another slow, federal, American agency that takes its time with new products and is close-minded when it comes to alternative herbs/roots/medicines.  I’m sure who ever does find this miracle cure, it will be backed by the FDA.  I started to get gray in my late teens, and unlike some people who come to love their gray hair, I absolutely hate mine. I have fair skin and somewhat of a baby-face and it makes me unhealthy or sick.  I am 30 yrs old and it just doesn’t fit me and I would love to find a cure!  So if anyone has any luck with this “bimatoprost” please share.

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/12/2006 5:16 PM
flowergirl said...
zorba990 said...
I think you need more information on why Bimatoprost causes this effect. Bimatoprost is a synthetic prostaglandin. So this immediately makes me ask the question what natural prostaglandin is it possibly substituting for in its effect in treating glaucoma, and does the upregulation of that natural prostaglandin also effect pigmentation?

Now I am making an assumption here, and it may be that there is no natural prostaglandin that will effect pigmentation. But, in my experience, nearly every pharmaceutical has a more natural, safer, alternative that works nearly as well without the associated side effects that pharmaceuticals seem to always have.

Also, some prostaglandins have inflammatory effects e.g. E2 so the pathways need some clarification.

Can anyone draw a pathway from a prostaglandin to melanin synthesis, release, etc?


how can we find out which natural prostaglandin its derived from? always prefer the natural alternative!
 
Bimatoprost is a derivative of the prostamide F2α, which is enzymatically formed from PGF2α and should act similar like PGF2α, but has a lower receptor affinity.


Posted By : Bhavani - 6/13/2006 10:59 AM
Reverse,

Where in Florida was the Asian store? I'm in FL too.

Posted By : PASSABOX - 6/13/2006 10:59 AM
reverse:

take a look at these pictures on the links below, fot the black ginger:

http://home.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/shoyaku/photo/Thai/021204Kampferia.jpg

http://home.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/shoyaku/photo/Thai/021204Kampferia2.jpg

we need to keep trying until we find something natural, with the property to reverse the grey hair.
it´s just a matter of time if we keep focused.
as i mentioned before, i heard the flaxseed had that property.
after 6 years taking it, i benefit of other properties for hairgrowth, intestines and to low cholesterol.
let's keep searching and sharing our experiences and informations.
no one i asked have heard about the black ginger here in brazil, but i am trying with contacts
in thailand.
keep you posted.

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/13/2006 11:00 AM
Here is a better explanation:

http://tinyurl.com/oek4x

"We now show that PGF2alpha stimulates the activity and expression of tyrosinase, the rate-limiting enzyme in melanin synthesis."

Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that prostaglandins have anything to do with hair color, but it may be that they will stimulate some due to the increase in melanin synthesis.

But this is a stimulatory effect. So its possibly not the answer for the long term, since it may just wear out the melanocytes faster, or use up the tyrosine, copper, PABA, pantothenate, etc, if you are not supplementing with plenty of nutrients.

What is really needed is intervention at the point in the process where stem cells
create new melanocytes to replace the old, oxidized, dying ones, not overstimulation
of the ones that are almost at the end of their lifecycle.

Posted By : flowergirl - 6/13/2006 11:00 AM
Bimatoprost is a derivative of the prostamide F2, which is enzymatically formed from PGF2 and should act similar like PGF2 but has a lower receptor affinity.

Posted By : Slider - 6/13/2006 1:34 PM

Having been a reader of this forum since the days of Amber, I think this link is the best possible hope in the near future

 

 

http://www.nesta.org.uk/ourawardees/profiles/2843/print.htm


Posted By : alfax - 6/13/2006 7:47 PM
 check this link for a scientific overview of gray hair:
 

Posted By : reverse - 6/14/2006 12:01 PM
Slider, great link. Reading that keeps me optomistic. The competition must be fierce on finding a remedy to reverse gray hair. I read somewhere hair color is a $7 billion-a-year industry so whomever finds and patents a safe, effective cure will be a rich, rich person/company. So with that kind of financial reward, I imagine more money being poured into research. I do hope it happens in the near future :)

Bhavani: Which coast do you live on in FL?

Everyone: Still doing the Bao Saka experiment and will probably give up at the 2 1/2 month marker. It's been a little over 5 weeks and nothing :(

Posted By : flowergirl - 6/14/2006 12:02 PM
ok, so firstly, why do you think stimulating the hair follicle to reproduce melanin would make it "run out" ? surely the other hair follicles that keep their color manage to exist for years without this happening?

and as for the nesta research in bradford from sliders message, again, they mention a "natural chemical". reckon they're talking about the same thing?

it seems like there is a race out there to patent the discovery real fast, which is great, and feels imminent. but would be great to find out what the natural derivatives are.

Posted By : Bhavani - 6/15/2006 10:32 AM
reverse,

I live on the east coast in South Florida. I haven't tried any local markets as yet. I did buy several plants from a ginger plant grower here in Florida. They are called "Kaempferia Parviflora" which where propagated from an original plant from Thailand and is to my understanding the Krachai or black ginger. They are small though and will take some time to grow before I will be able to harvest them. So I am going to start looking here locally to see if I can find the fresh root.

Posted By : Slider - 6/15/2006 10:32 AM
This is also an interesting link
 

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/15/2006 10:32 AM
flowergirl said...
ok, so firstly, why do you think stimulating the hair follicle to reproduce melanin would make it "run out" ? surely the other hair follicles that keep their color manage to exist for years without this happening?

and as for the nesta research in bradford from sliders message, again, they mention a "natural chemical". reckon they're talking about the same thing?

it seems like there is a race out there to patent the discovery real fast, which is great, and feels imminent. but would be great to find out what the natural derivatives are.
The primary reason for gray hair is that the worn out melanocyte, which is
supposed to be replaced by a new cell via the stem cells, is not replaced.
(Presumably due to lack of enough healthy living stem cells) No melanocyte = no melanin.  So the fact is that the cells do get worn out, and die just like evey other cell in the body.
 
The process of producing melanin is an oxidative one.  So antioxidants can certainly help delay the aging of the cell.  And, of course, supplying enough raw materials for the melanin forming reaction can help the cell's melanin production be more efficient.  But simply stimulating the melanocytes to produce more melanin, does not keep the cells young and healthy.  In fact, it likely does the opposite.
 
So say, for instance, that ingesting or topically applying a tyrosine compound
stimulates increased melanin synthesis.  More synthesis = more oxidation = more
wearing out of the cells.  So while you may see a hair getting darker in the short term, you are sending the melanocyte to a quicker death via upregulation of an oxidative pathway.
 
If you simultaneously increase antioxidants (orally, topically, whatever), and protect the cells from UV radiation (sunscreen in the shampoo, PABA, etc) and other toxins, you might come out equal.  But eventually oxidation will win and the melanocyte will die.
 
So the key is get the body to produce more of the STEM CELLS.  Then the dying melanocytes can always be replaced.  Couple that with the proper nutrition needed to supply the raw materials for synthesis, and your hair would stay non-gray forever.
 
When you are young you have plenty of stem cells alive to supply new
melanocytes.  Perhaps someday you will have your own stem cells extracted, multiplied, and injected back into you as a re-youthing method.
 
Or some wise person will figure out the set of circumstances that causes the body to produce these stem cells and duplicate it to stimulate the body to produce them on demand.
 
Until then I doubt any chemical, herb, vitamin, etc will have more than a delaying effect on gray hair.  This delaying effect may be enough to appear as a full reversal, since hair grows in cycles, and is likely fed by multiple sets of melanocytes.  The difference being that a real full reversal would restore the system to the state where the hair would continue to appear as normal color well after treatment with any nutrients, etc was stopped.
 
 
 
 

Posted By : flowergirl - 6/16/2006 1:05 PM
thanx zorba, thats a clear answer. all i can say is bring on the day when some genius figures out a safe easy way to reproduce/reactivate the stem cells!

until then keep feeding on antioxidants?!

Posted By : TheNutster - 6/18/2006 1:26 PM
Try supplementing with 500 mg. PABA (para aminobenzoic acid) for awhile until you see a change back in color.  I use it only when I need it.  I'm 69.  I use Solgar.

Posted By : TheNutster - 6/18/2006 1:26 PM
I read a long time ago that PABA (para aminobenzoic acid) reverses gray hair.  It worked for me.  I am 69 now and still have very few gray hairs.  I take 500 mg. for a while until I get results.  Currently I'm giving it to one of my female dogs  (eleven years old) in quarter doses as she's little;  I've  been giving it to her for about a week, and I think I'm noticing some reversal in her hair color and eyelashes back to normal color.  I have two female dogs (same litter); one fixed, one not--the one that was fixed is the one showing aging and the problem of looking a lot older that her littermate.  Hope this helps.

Posted By : peakbagger - 6/18/2006 1:27 PM
Just in case someone actually tried brewing this drink, I amend the soy milk and yogurt to 1/2 cup and 1 cup respectively. I prefer the Stonyfield Farm yogurt for it's superior active culture variation & counts. You can take all the vitamins and good foods you want, but if your digestive system is impaired, it won't matter much.

My hair, which at age 51, has at most only a handful of grey hairs, darkened significantly when I changed my diet about 6-7 years ago. I have no idea what ingredients did it but it went from a sandy brown to a dark brown and seemed to thicken. Per the lady that cuts my hair, it darkened 3-4 shades. At first she thought I was dying my hair but I pointed out a couple of the greys that are on the side to disprove that theory. The lady that cuts my hair suggested it may be the minerals in the ingredients -- seems reasonable and along with the healthier colon from the yogurt, perhaps I am digesting more efficiently. I certainly have zero elimination problems.

The big change in diet was taking anti-oxidants (not LEF at that time) and this power drink I have every morning:
1/4 cup organic soymilk
1/2 cup organic yogurt with multiple active cultures
banana
frozen blueberries 3/4 cup or so
teaspoon or more of organic apple vinegar
2 scoops whey flavored whey powder -- no nasty artificial sweeteners
Super Green Max Herbal Mix from Swanson's Vitamins (approx tablespoon)
near tablespoon of Earthrise Organic Spirulina
1 1/2 tablespoon Organic flaxseed oil
1 1/2 tablespoon lecithin soy granules

This stuff holds me over from 6-7 am to 10-11 o'clock easily -- start out with smaller portions, this is very nutrient-dense -- my body did not adapt immediately.
The drink, which is like a shake in consistency, is also very helpful for gulping down vitamins.

Post Edited (peakbagger) : 6/29/2006 1:53:58 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : PASSABOX - 6/20/2006 2:00 PM
Reverse and Bhavani:

I´m waiting your searchs on the black ginger roots or plants in Florida.  I live in Sao Paulo/Brazil and have friends in Orlando and Miami, so if you guys find anyplace to buy it pls keep me posted.

Good luck.

Posted By : BartSimpson - 6/20/2006 2:01 PM
Did we all give up already?

I'm trying a composite of vitamins/PABA (100 mg daily). I'm half month already.

I will give a full update every month.

Posted By : BartSimpson - 6/21/2006 11:14 AM
AssuieDavid did you get anymore hair restored?

If you did, i'm going to copy your regimen.

Posted By : reverse - 6/21/2006 11:17 AM
I only found the white and after 6 weeks, it hasn't worked.

Posted By : reverse - 6/23/2006 4:25 PM
So, did PABA actually reverse gray hair or just delay the onset of it?

Posted By : BartSimpson - 6/23/2006 4:25 PM
how about HGH, did anyone try besides AssuieDavid?

come on guys.
dont give up.

AssuieDavid, do you have an update for us?

Posted By : BartSimpson - 6/26/2006 12:18 PM
PABA stills hasn't worked for me, but i'm trying.

100 mg daily

almost 20 days on it.

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/26/2006 5:30 PM
I don't think 100 mg will do it. More like 500 mg.

Posted By : gotsomegray - 6/28/2006 3:28 PM

Now here is a link to a website that is interesting to say the least.  I don't know how much stock to put into this, but if it's legit then I'm sure restoring hair color would be one of the many benefits.

http://www.lifepath.stemtechhealth.com/

My initial impression is that it's questionable at best, but I like that the main cogs in the organization each have a picture and a bio on the website.  It's pretty expensive, but I may give it a try in the not so distant future.  I'd love to hear the opinions of some of you on this board.

 


Posted By : flowergirl - 6/29/2006 1:10 PM
"Now here is a link to a website that is interesting to say the least. I don't know how much stock to put into this, but if it's legit then I'm sure restoring hair color would be one of the many benefits.

http://www.lifepath.stemtechhealth.com/ "

the ingredients list on this product is simply blue-green algae, protein and vitamin a.

i've been taking blue green algae regularly for ages. it's great, but has never changed my hair color!! and its one of the highest forms of vitamin a that occurs naturally and is one of the richest forms of protein too, so their formula is a lil suspect. if you are thinkin of trying blue green algae i would recommend synnergy or e3 live.

Posted By : lei.talk - 6/29/2006 1:15 PM
does any one know any thing
about the "active ingredient"?

Posted By : reverse - 6/29/2006 1:15 PM
Gotsomegray, if you do try it, please keep us updated on this new product.

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/29/2006 1:15 PM
Hilarious! And interesting timing too!

Celltech and their Blue Green Algae rears its ugly head yet again!

You are much better researching on PubMed than on the web in general.  At least there you can follow up on other studies and not be part of some multi level marketing scam.

Yes it is likely that nutrients can stimulate stem cells. But there is no reason to
take potentially toxic algae to do so.

http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=35&m=26365

Posted By : DDye - 6/30/2006 5:39 PM
This just appeared in FASEB: http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/9/1567?etoc

Posted By : kiki - 7/2/2006 7:45 PM
Ack... so is StemTech and its StemEnhance just another scam? I sent them an e-mail a while back questioning if this could help reverse premature grey hair and recevied, "I have personally met people who have had gray hair reversal from taking StemEnhance. How did you find out about me?"

His answer was fairly brief. More bogus I guess? I can't see how these many people (Melancor, HairBorn, Reminex) can get away with such scams.

Posted By : PASSABOX - 7/2/2006 7:51 PM
I began to take 500 mg of PABA and will do it for 2 months, as the Recouleur formula did not work
I´ll keep you posted.

Posted By : magha - 7/3/2006 10:28 AM
hi folks,
here is the latest link that I've found on the topic,
more to come later when more time...
 

Posted By : AussieDavid - 7/3/2006 10:28 AM
Just wanted to update the forum on my lack of progress. Have not had any significant changes to my hair colour.
 
My routine includes:
 
He Shou Wu
Cats Claw
Tryosine
HGH stimulant (Trans-D-Tropin)
Copper Supplementation
 
Does anyone know a good international supplier of Twinlabs DMAE3? I had ordered some from the USA, but they tried to rip me off on the postage, so I cancelled.

Posted By : PASSABOX - 7/3/2006 12:24 PM
Guys, take a look at this website about Glyconutrients:

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsGlyconutrients.php

Posted By : magha - 7/5/2006 8:23 AM
Nice find Passabox. I'm still probing specific research in relation to some glycos and how they may attenuate stem cell activity, if at all. (i.e) Most all vitamins carry claims by supplement distributors that dosing could cure everything from soup to nuts, but on the other hand we do not render them useless for their target functions within the whole. I still need more stem cell research and what makes these things tick.

Posted By : Hot Denim - 7/5/2006 8:23 AM
AussieDavid said...
Just wanted to update the forum on my lack of progress. Have not had any significant changes to my hair colour.



My routine includes:



He Shou Wu

Cats Claw

Tryosine

HGH stimulant (Trans-D-Tropin)

Copper Supplementation



Does anyone know a good international supplier of Twinlabs DMAE3? I had ordered some from the USA, but they tried to rip me off on the postage, so I cancelled.


about the HGH stimulant. I assume this stimulates release of HGH in the body.

I do not believe this will work to reverse grey hair generally. This is because there is abnormality that some humans may develop where the body produces huge amounts of HGH for periods of years. This abnormality can occur at stages where persons have mostly all grey hair. Or may develop grey hair during the period that they have this abnormality. In either situation humans who have this disease generally tend not to experience any additional hair pigmentation.

Posted By : flowergirl - 7/5/2006 8:23 AM
"This just appeared in FASEB: http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/9/1567?etoc "

that's really interesting. it also says on that website that lipoic acid reversed the cardio oxidative stress in rats. there must be some form/combination of antioxidants that would reverse the oxidative stress in hair follicles which would retutn the hair to its natural color.

i had some hairs return to their natural color when i took a load of he sho wu, but i didnt keep up with it then as i was overdoing the supplements and it didnt feel good, so i just stopped it all. may go back to that again. but there has to be something that really kicks in and works...

anyone trying the bimatoprost or is the prospect of wearing out the melancytes too scary?!

Posted By : reverse - 7/5/2006 8:25 AM
I was looking at previous posts and came across something interesting on page one. A member mentions dihydroxyl-5.6-indole as an agent that reverses gray hair but not yet commercially available. I did a yahoo search and found it mentioned on L'oreal's web page. I copied and pasted this from their hair color research page:

"The future: the role of precursors
After 30 years of painstaking work, L'Oréal laboratories have developed a precursor molecule for melanin, dihydroxyl-5.6-indole, which represents a major step forward in hair-color research. It enables the natural process of hair pigmentation to take place biologically, through a slow oxydization process. Given the right proportions, everyone can now get back their own natural color.

This new chemical may soon enable us to come up with a completely new way to enhance hair color or hide the gray, by developing products that today we can only dream about..."

I don't know when this was published and if any progress has been made but hopefully something will break out soon.

Posted By : Wabbit - 7/5/2006 8:26 AM
Hey has anyone tried rubbing colloidal copper on their scalp? Supposedly it brings back hair from white, it is sold in a decent non-profit driven holistic place I go to and they have leaflets saying this amongst one of the benefits of it. Supposedly Cleopatra used to use it on her skin as its good for wrinkles too. It is a bit pricey though but I see no one has mentioned it before as the search was blank, maybe you should give it a try rather than pumping yourself with chemicals just to get your hair colour back! lol

Posted By : zorba990 - 7/5/2006 8:26 AM
AussieDavid said...
Just wanted to update the forum on my lack of progress. Have not had any significant changes to my hair colour.
 
My routine includes:
 
He Shou Wu
Cats Claw
Tryosine
HGH stimulant (Trans-D-Tropin)
Copper Supplementation
 
Does anyone know a good international supplier of Twinlabs DMAE3? I had ordered some from the USA, but they tried to rip me off on the postage, so I cancelled.
Suggestions:
1. Instead of just He Shou Wu, take Shou Wu Jit the original fermented forumla, comes in an I dream of Genie type bottle at the Chinese herb store (beware of potential metal toxicity with some brands).
2. Source of DMAE-H3 is http://www.beyond-a-century.com/ I think it's $8.00.  I am currently taking a double dose with no issues (worked up to it over 6 months or so).
3. Are you taking a multinutrient like LE Mix?  Nutrients work synergistically and taking something special purpose won't usually work well if the basics are not covered (for instance pantothenic acid is required in larger doses for anything that is cholinergic).
4. DMAE-H3 and liquid ionic copper topically.  Too much oral copper is not good, and should be balanced with zinc.  Among other things, copper is particularly toxic to microorganisms and could possible kill off good GI bacteria if taken to excess.
I've noticed head hair darkening more than beard hair and I think it is due to topical PABA and copper.
 
5. SODZyme/GLisodin from LEF
 
6. Experimental...topical carnosine.  I am currently using the powder from BAC in my topical regimen.
 
7. Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer from LEF or similar forumula.
 
That's about all I can think of for now.  I won't publish such a list again as it's been done several times in this thread already.

Posted By : Bhavani - 7/5/2006 8:29 AM
Gotsomegray

Any luck with the Reminex? I've been trying it and it doesn't seem to agree with me. If you are interested, I have 3 unopened bottles you could purchase resonably. email me if you are - bhavani7@bellsouth.net

Posted By : AussieDavid - 7/7/2006 11:09 AM

Hi Zorba990,

Thanks for the info. I am already taking the LEF mix with copper in it and have been supplementing with a Twinlab 2 mg copper supplement on alternate days. The LEF mix has 1 mg in it already, so maybe that is enough internal copper. Am also taking the SODzyme with Glisodin. I will get some of the Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer and I'll try to make the other modifications you suggested and change my routine accordingly. I did have a couple of hairs a few months ago that clearly had grey tips and dark roots, but I haven't seen any more since.

Where do you get your topical PABA and liquid ionic copper from?


Posted By : flowergirl - 7/7/2006 11:10 AM
zorba are you taking the dmae-h3 and ionic copper internally as well as topically?

and how are you applying them? just straight?

how much reversal are you getting on your head?

Posted By : TheNutster - 7/7/2006 4:40 PM
Yes PABA works.  As with any natural supplement, give it 3 months.  I always start to see results within weeks, but you may be different.

Posted By : zorba990 - 7/7/2006 7:54 PM
flowergirl said...
zorba are you taking the dmae-h3 and ionic copper internally as well as topically?

and how are you applying them? just straight?

how much reversal are you getting on your head?
Yes. Applying straight.  No topical copper orally, but orally DMAE-H3
 
More than 95% 'reversal'.  Not sure if that is the correct term as I haven't stopped the treatment.
 
 
Here is something interesting (perhaps some investigator would
like to check and see if copper-carnosine complexes are found in
melanocytes and or the scalp):
 
The SOD like activity of copper:carnosine
 
"The results indicate that the complex of copper:carnosine can dismute superoxide radicals released by neutrophils treated with PMA in an analogous mechanism to other amino acids and copper complexes"
 
 

Post Edited (zorba990) : 7/9/2006 12:42:08 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : gotsomegray - 7/10/2006 10:49 AM
Bhavani said...
Gotsomegray

Any luck with the Reminex? I've been trying it and it doesn't seem to agree with me. If you are interested, I have 3 unopened bottles you could purchase resonably. email me if you are - bhavani7@bellsouth.net
Bhavani,
 
I haven't noticed anything yet with Reminex.  I've added an antioxidant to my daily intake as well.  Thanks for the offer on the bottles of Reminex.  I will let you know if I decide to keep on it after my supply runs out.
 

Posted By : flowergirl - 7/10/2006 7:07 PM
ok zorba, some questions:

firstly you say no "reversal" cos you are still taking the supplements, but does that mean you've seen a change in 95% of your hair in that it has regained its natural color? and what percentage of your hair was grey to start off with?

secondly, have just gone back through the posts to check your dosages. you originally said you were using 4x drops of DMAE-H3 + 4 drops hydroderm and you were using real SOD and ionic copper. sorry to be pedantic, but what dose have you been using regularly to achieve your "reversal"? and are you still adding the SOD and the hydroderm? and is that for the whole head or just small patch?

are you still applying every nite? and does it really smell bad? cos i got a couple of bottles from twinlab and it was a little challenging!

how much are you taking orally? you say a double dose, how much is a dose?

also in an earlier post you said you were using a secret ingredient - have you revealed that yet?

thanx for sharing your info!

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 7/11/2006 1:19 PM
zorba990,

It looks like you are one of the very few participants with significant success restoring hair color. I am sure we would all like to hear lots of details on your case and what you are taking, applying, etc. How often, what dosage, how long before different degrees of success, what worked best, where you bought it, how you prepare it Etc. Please give details.
Thanks,
StinkyJoe

Posted By : fifo - 7/12/2006 12:20 PM
Has anyone tried Reminex?
Does it really work?
They say you should start noticing differences within a couple of months.

Posted By : kiki - 7/12/2006 1:58 PM
Don't mean to be prodding you as well, but would it be possible for you to upload some pictures of your hair's reversal, Zorba? This would really prove that your regimen is working and I'd be interested too to know what you're doing and how it's done.

Posted By : reverse - 7/12/2006 3:57 PM
Yes, Zorba, is there anyway you can provide us with some pictures? I'm really interested. I have tried so many things and am a bit discouraged at this point.

Posted By : zorba990 - 7/16/2006 7:43 PM
StinkyJoe said...
zorba990,

It looks like you are one of the very few participants with significant success restoring hair color. I am sure we would all like to hear lots of details on your case and what you are taking, applying, etc. How often, what dosage, how long before different degrees of success, what worked best, where you bought it, how you prepare it Etc. Please give details.
Thanks,
StinkyJoe
I thought I had done that already.
 
I take 1 dropperful of DMAE-H3 orally, as well as the original HoShou Wu forumula, and SODZyme/Glisodin as well as a number of LEF forumulas that don't relate to this specifically but follow their general guidelines (Green Tea extract, etc).  On very rare occasions I will take some of the ionic copper orally but I am leary of taking too much copper.
 
I apply 1 dropperful DMAE-H3, 1 capful ionic copper, 1T arginine and 1T carnosine
topically.  I make this on the fly not in advance.  It stinks to high hell, so on occasion I have tried adding some essential oils of orange, lavendar, rosemary, etc. -- but I don't always remember to do that.  I take NAC sustain to stop fallout of hair (I might be considered a norwood .5 or something, but previously had some thinning at the top front).  I am leary of minoxidil, but might explore other things if the thinning comes back.
 
Sometimes I use the dermaroller for extra penetration.
 
I no longer do anything with Hydroderm due to the large number of parabens contained in it.  I think the above ingredients get into the follicle without much issue but one could always try dermarolling or DMSO or something if there was any doubt.
 
I don't have any photos to share.
 
Many people use copper peptides instead of ionic copper topically and are also reporting restoration of color.  Lots of copper orally will probable make one sick, but its up to the individual to figure out any copper zinc issues.  If the mixture smells fine to you then you are zinc deficient <g>.
 
I cannot say for sure this is not causing any kind of dying effect.  The DMAE-H3 will stain clothes, etc.  The copper I use is clear but the peptides will also stain.  From the color restored I don't think that this is the effect.
 
What I notice is many many fewer hairs (seemed zero last time) that are gray when I get a hair cut and see all the hair on the poncho-type-thingy, as opposed to at least 25% previously.
 
I don't want to reccomend brands as I don't really want to degenerate the thread into advertisements.  You can find all the above on the web and you should use normal prudent research yourself to avoid any problems with inferior materials.
 
 

Posted By : island808 - 7/16/2006 7:45 PM
It's possible there's another angle from which to address the challenge of restoring hair color. That would be to use devices rather than supplements. For instance, years ago I read about a guy who claimed he had restored his hair from gray to its original color by applying a magnet. Unfortunately, I cannot now recall specifics; magnet type, magnet strength, or location on or near the body where the magnet was placed to achieve the desired effect. In any case, maybe this is something worth researching.

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/16/2006 7:45 PM
Hi,
Fighting grey hair for a couple of months and want to give some information that I think is useful. Currently I use the following:
1) 3 tb black strap molasses with 1 tb honey first thing in the morning. I will add and 1 tb of wheat germ instead taking it at noon.
2) 500 mg Solgar PABA after lunch.
and I will add
3) 2 tb apple cider vinegar before sleep.
 
That will not be my final daily habit as from my research came to some useful conclusions.
1) B vitamins are useful 100% but they should provided all day long maybe finding a formula to take every six or eight hours. Thats because our organism absorbs the quantity it needs and dismiss the other - B vitamins water soluble. So it is better to provide the necessary quantity with doses.
2) PABA is very useful but from my research found that needs antioxidant vitamins to respond. Better take in conjuction with E vitamin or with C vitamin.  I would advise to take E vitamin as I have heard that E can give you the desirable solution -back to black - all alone.
Take a look:

http://www.wsgenetics.org/snow_nose1.htm 

Also I will try to keep the supplements for life as I know that [they] are beneficial and work better protecting my hair from turning white than turning white back to color.

3) Today I found by chance the following :-)

http://www.livingiseasy.co.uk/products/cat4/cat40/cat190/GREY_AWAY_Simple_Spray_on_-_Comb_in._Starts_taking_away_grey_FAST._150ml./index.html

I know that in this forum there are people with fine chemistry knowledge to look the ingredients and explain to us what is that. Is that a copy of Grecian Formula? Maybe is the first product of its kind that we all looked for years, and it is the time for similar products to follow. My only fear is that I don't trust such unknown products and that is a scam, but it is very cheap to give a try as they say you get results in 14 days.

 

Post Edited (dLaertios) : 8/15/2006 5:37:51 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : magha - 7/17/2006 10:26 AM
Hi Zorba,
what's the deal with minoxidil? Why are you leary of it? Just curious, you seem well versed on many of these items currently available.

Posted By : zorba990 - 7/20/2006 9:19 AM
magha said...
Hi Zorba,
what's the deal with minoxidil? Why are you leary of it? Just curious, you seem well versed on many of these items currently available.
For me it just falls into the category of using the drug endpoint for a reaction rather than the nutritional alternative.  Arginine is used to produce NO and so I would prefer to use that rather than NO itself.  My thought is that this will avoid any effects from overdose since the control is still with the body as to how much NO to produce.  In
addition, I suspect it would also avoid any bounce back effect from stopping the supplementation. 
 
 
 

Posted By : b4its2late - 7/26/2006 2:53 PM
Zorba,
 
Sorry, I am not clear how often you apply DMAE, Copper etc. to scalp. Daily?
 
Thanks

Posted By : gotsomegray - 7/28/2006 1:14 PM
Here's a new possibility that I found recently.  The first link is to the resthairation seller's website for color rejeuvanating herbal shampoo and conditioner with antioxidants.  It's not cheap, but I already bought some and I can tell you that a small amount of the stuff will lather up more than you'd imagine.  It should last quite a while.  I'm really starting to buy into the idea of antioxidants and scalp massaging as being very helpful in hair pigmentation.
 
The second link is to an article on people who had success with this product in Bloomington, Illinois where this guy is based.  I've been getting so skeptical of reminex and melancor that I used a people finders website (free site) on the names given with the testimonials on those websites.  I never found a match on Reminex or Melancor, but I tried the same with the people listed in the resthairation article and I found them with their location in and around Bloomington, IL with their listed ages from the article.  That is the reason I decided to give it a try.
 
As always, I will keep you all up to date on my progress.  I'm now using Reminex, tyrosine, antioxidants, and resthairation color rejeuvanating shampoo and conditioner.  I am also buying a scalp massager.  I kind of surprise myself with the lengths I will go to try and stop the graying.
 
 
 
 
 

Posted By : zorba990 - 7/28/2006 4:19 PM
gotsomegray said...
Here's a new possibility that I found recently.  The first link is to the resthairation seller's website for color rejeuvanating herbal shampoo and conditioner with antioxidants.  It's not cheap, but I already bought some and I can tell you that a small amount of the stuff will lather up more than you'd imagine.  It should last quite a while.  I'm really starting to buy into the idea of antioxidants and scalp massaging as being very helpful in hair pigmentation.
 
The second link is to an article on people who had success with this product in Bloomington, Illinois where this guy is based.  I've been getting so skeptical of reminex and melancor that I used a people finders website (free site) on the names given with the testimonials on those websites.  I never found a match on Reminex or Melancor, but I tried the same with the people listed in the resthairation article and I found them with their location in and around Bloomington, IL with their listed ages from the article.  That is the reason I decided to give it a try.
 
As always, I will keep you all up to date on my progress.  I'm now using Reminex, tyrosine, antioxidants, and resthairation color rejeuvanating shampoo and conditioner.  I am also buying a scalp massager.  I kind of surprise myself with the lengths I will go to try and stop the graying.
 
 
 
 
 
I'm not really sure how a shampoo, which is washed in and out of the hair, could really make a difference.  In any case, they would have to post a full ingredients list (as they are legally required since the point of pruchase is the internet) in order to get any interest from me -- especially at 50 bucks a bottle yeowch!
 
 
 
Cosmetics produced or distributed for retail sale to consumers for their personal care are required to bear an ingredient declaration (21 CFR 701.3).
 
The ingredient declaration must be conspicuous so that it is likely to be read at the time of purchase. It may appear on any information panel of the outer con-tainer, i.e., an information panel of the folding carton, box or wrapping if the immediate container is so pack-aged or, if not packaged in an outer container, an information panel of the jar, tube or bottle containing the product. The ingredient declaration may also appear on a tag, tape or card that is firmly affixed to the outer container. The letters must not be less than 1/16 of an inch in height (21 CFR 701.3(b)). If the total package surface available to bear labeling is less than 12 square inches, the letters must not be less than 1/32 of an inch in height (21 CFR 701.3(p)). Off-package ingredient labeling is permitted if the cosmetic is held in tightly compartmented trays or racks, it is not enclosed in a folding carton, and the package surface area is less than 12 square inches (21 CFR 701.3(i)).

The ingredients must be declared in descending order of predominance. Color additives (21 CFR 701.3(f)(3)) and ingredients present at one percent or less (21 CFR 701.3(f)(2)) may be declared after the ingredients present at concentrations exceeding one percent without regard for predominance. The ingredients must be identified by the names established or adopted by regulation (21 CFR 701.3(c)); those accepted by the FDA as exempt from public disclosure may be stated as "and other ingredients" (21 CFR 701.3(a)).

 

 

Post Edited (zorba990) : 7/29/2006 12:00:48 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : gotsomegray - 7/31/2006 6:24 PM
Zorba,
 
I had the same thoughts about a shampoo.  The directions require leaving it in your hair for 5 minutes before rinsing and it is amazing what the skin will absorb in a short amount of time, but I still understand and share your skepticism.  A little bit of the shampoo foams up like crazy in my hair so the bottle will last at least a few months if not about six or more.  So figuring around $10 a month, I don't feel like I'm throwing away quite as much money.  The conditioner does smell like fish just like someone mentions in that article.  The shampoo smell is strange but allright.  It reminds me of that oily dip they give you for your bread at Italian restaurants like Bravo.  I'm at work at the moment, but I'll have to post the ingredients on here soon.
 
As always, I'll let everyone know if I have any success.  I'm trying so many different things that it'll be difficult to pinpoint what worked for me (assuming I'm successful).
 
 

Posted By : kiki - 7/31/2006 7:21 PM
This product sounds very interesting gotsomegray. My only question however is that if a product like this has been proven to work on individuals with grey hair, why hasn't word of its success spread rapidly? Surely there are many people who would be interested in using a product like this and that RestHAIRation would be doing all they could to promote their product. This is something that always leaves me sceptical of online products, but I'll be very interested if it works for you. By the way, is it as effective as a normal shampoo and conditioner on your hair? All the best!

Posted By : zorba990 - 8/2/2006 10:58 AM
gotsomegray said...
Zorba,
 
I had the same thoughts about a shampoo.  The directions require leaving it in your hair for 5 minutes before rinsing and it is amazing what the skin will absorb in a short amount of time, but I still understand and share your skepticism.  A little bit of the shampoo foams up like crazy in my hair so the bottle will last at least a few months if not about six or more.  So figuring around $10 a month, I don't feel like I'm throwing away quite as much money.  The conditioner does smell like fish just like someone mentions in that article.  The shampoo smell is strange but allright.  It reminds me of that oily dip they give you for your bread at Italian restaurants like Bravo.  I'm at work at the moment, but I'll have to post the ingredients on here soon.
 
As always, I'll let everyone know if I have any success.  I'm trying so many different things that it'll be difficult to pinpoint what worked for me (assuming I'm successful).
 
 
"The conditioner does smell like fish just like someone mentions in that article"
 
Sounds like they are using DMAE-H3. 
 

Posted By : Sum 41 - 8/3/2006 10:36 AM
Hello everybody...

First of all English is not my native language...So may be I can make some mistakes...Sorry about that... :)

I'm 20 years old and my hair is 10% gray...I'm really unhappy about that and it affects my self-esteem...

I don't want to color my hair...Because I have hair loss problem...

I have been using Youthair for a week but I couldn't see any effect of that yet...

My question is: Is there anybody that used Melancor?? I wanna use Melancor but I don't know anything about that...

Thank you... :)

Posted By : kiki - 8/5/2006 11:32 AM
Hi Sum 41,

A few of the people on this forum and throughout the internet have used Melancor and had no success. Gotsomegray is now using RestHAIRation and people on the internet have said good things about it. If gotsomegray or other users have any good results this product may be better to use. :) You can found out more about it here:

http://www.resthairation.com/oscommerce/index.php?cPath=22

http://www.pantagraph.com/blogs/main/?cat=13

Also, to see results you usually need to wait 3 months or more. Hair grows in cycles slowly and a week would not be enough to see major changes. I have heard of YouthHair but have not used it, but if you have any good results over the next few months please let us know. :)

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 8/5/2006 10:35:39 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : Sum 41 - 8/6/2006 5:38 PM
Hi kiki,

Thanks for your answer... :) I started using Youthair on July 28...And I haven't seen any effect of that yet...I read reviews on internet and most of people says it's working...

I have to wait 2 more weeks to see the results...Then I will share the results with you... :)

Thank you... :)

Posted By : gotsomegray - 8/7/2006 10:41 AM
kiki,
 
I use to use any $2 shampoo that I could find since I have very short hair, but I can definitely say that the restHairation is better simply as a shampoo than anything I have used before.  The conditioner works well also, but is difficult to spread around and smells pretty bad.  It doesn't seem to leave my hair smelling too bad though.  I will get the list of ingredients and post them soon.
 
Sum 41,
 
I used Melancor for 4 months and I have been taking Reminex for just over 4 months.  They are very similar products but the company that sells Melancor has an "F" rating with the better business bureau while Reminex has a favorable rating.  Their customer service department is much better also (or it exists as opposed to Melancor which seems to avoid people).  I don't know if Reminex works but they seem to be more reputable at least.  I have read a lot of reviews around the internet and it seems like there are some people who have had success with these products but most people are pretty unhappy with them.  I will probably finish the 8 months supply of Reminex that I originally purchased and let you all know if I have any success.  So far I don't think there is any change.
 
 

Posted By : SS1984 - 8/7/2006 1:12 PM
Hi all....I've just joined forum but i've been watching it since january....I started taking 1000 mg of PABA and 800 mg of vitamin E 04.08.2006 and I 'll report if I have any success.

@gotsomegray Do you think that restHairation shampoo without conditioner could work?...How long one bottle of it could last? Do you apply it, every day, few times a week or less...And if shampoo smells bad, what could it be done to get rid of the smell? Thank You!
 
-Welcome! - moderator

Posted By : SS1984 - 8/8/2006 5:08 PM
I send an e-mail to Resthairation asking them these questions and the guy responded that for full results shampoo should be used with conditioner, and after using shampoo and conditioner, hair can be washed with some other shampoo to get rid of the smell or gel can be used...I think I will try this product, I really hope it works

Posted By : cookieduster1 - 8/8/2006 5:37 PM
I have also read the book Dead Doctors Don't Lie, and I agree that minerals are most important for maintaining good health, and probably good hair.

Posted By : lad - 8/11/2006 11:13 AM
"Grey Away" 

"...Contains Lead Acetate" sad


Posted By : gotsomegray - 8/11/2006 11:13 AM
SS1984 said...
Hi all....I've just joined forum but i've been watching it since january....I started taking 1000 mg of PABA and 800 mg of vitamin E 04.08.2006 and I 'll report if I have any success.

@gotsomegray Do you think that restHairation shampoo without conditioner could work?...How long one bottle of it could last? Do you apply it, every day, few times a week or less...And if shampoo smells bad, what could it be done to get rid of the smell? Thank You!
 
-Welcome! - moderator
I think I got a similar response from restHairation regarding use of the conditioner.  They said use it for "best results", but it isn't 100% required.  I shower at night so I figure any residual smell will be gone by morning.  When I take a shower before going out at night on the weekends, I have done just what they suggested.  I followed up with a small amount of regular shampoo to make sure the smell was gone.  I've been using for 3 weeks now (I shower and shampoo every day) and the smell of the conditioner doesn't bother me as much now.
 
They sell 32 ounces of the product which should last a LONG time.  It takes very little of the shampoo to lather up a full head of hair.  The conditioner doesn't spread out nearly as well.  It seems like I have to use a lot to cover my entire head of hair.
 
 

Posted By : SS1984 - 8/12/2006 1:36 PM
@ dLaertios You say that you are fighting grey for a couple of months and that you are using PABA...Have you seen any reversal?

Posted By : dLaertios - 8/14/2006 10:36 AM
SS1984, I dye my hair so it is difficult to say.

But as far as I can see I think that I have more colored hairs than before and also the color has changed from white to gray to most of them. Maybe it is my idea and it is not true but I believe that the methods started to work.

It isn't dramatic changes although I started to treat my hair 5 months before, but I intend to keep it for life as I don't want to go grey on other parts than head.

Also it isn't only PABA. I try to use many things with the hope that they will help, stopped smoking , bought a bicycle, apply oils, taking molasses, rinse with acv and other thinks.

I believe that the best supplement is molasses. Also I believe that the remedy you try is one of the best. PABA and vitamin E.

I think it is too early to ask for success stories.

Posted By : dang - 8/15/2006 8:55 PM
does anyone know anything about this shampoo/conditioner and what might be in it?

http://www.hairinesscenter-th.com/en/?uid=111&uc=products&cid=234&tpl=template2

if you can get past the rather hilarious name it may be worth a shot, esp. considering it's relative cheapness ... not much to lose i suppose.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 8/27/2006 2:06 PM
A warning about 'RESTHAIRATION' products:
 
On page 15 of this topic there is a link and a discussion about Resthairation Colour Rejuvenator Shampoo and Conditioner.
 
I placed an order with this company and I believe I have been ripped off. I ordered the 'COLOR REJUVENATOR SET'. Here is the link:
 
 
I paid $106 USD in total (including tax and postage). What I actually recieved are 2 x 16oz Shampoo bottles labelled 'MIRACLE GROWTH SHAMPOO'  and 2 x 16oz Conditioner Bottles labelled 'MIRACLE GROWTH WOMENS CONDITIONER'. Over the original labels, they have simply pasted a transparent label saying 'COLOR REJUVENATOR'. The bottles are NOT the 'COLOR REJUVENATOR' bottles as shown in their website. When I emailed the company, they would not tell me if the contents are in fact the Color Rejuvenator formula. When I asked for clarification that the contents listed on the original label are the contents of the bottle, they wouldn't reply. Frankly, I think they just had some excess stock and are just getting rid of it. Someone is making a lot of money out of this stuff. I would be interested to hear from anyone who actually has the bottles marked 'Color Rejuvenator'. A previous post said the smell was not pleasant. My shampoo and conditioner have a eucalyptus kind of smell.
 
The listed ingredients on the shampoo bottle are:
 
Purified Water, Ammonium Laurel Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Ammonium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate, Lauramide DEA, Panthenol, Cocamide DEA, Ployquaternium-7, Rosmarinus Officinalie (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium EDTA, Citric Acid, Benzophenone-4, Methylchlorlosothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone.
 
I am not sure if they are the ingredients of the Miracle Growth Shampoo, or the Color Rejuvenator Shampoo as I am not sure exactly which one is in the bottle.
 
The listed ingredients on the Conditioner bottle are:
 
Purified Water, Cetyl Alcohol, Behenalkonium Chloride, Propylene Glycol Ceteth-3 Acetate, Tridecyl Sterate, Neopentyl Clycol Dicaprylate/Dicaprate, Tridecyl Trimellitate, Amodimethicone, Tallowtrimonium Chloride, Nonoxynol-10, Rosmarinus Officinalie (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Merhylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Citric Acid.
 
Again, I am not actually sure if this is the ingredients of the Color Rejuvenator Conditioner, as the original label is for 'Miracle Growth Womens Conditioner'.
 
'Buyer beware' when dealing with this company. $106 for some shampoo and conditioner is a lot of money and I don't see anything particularly inspiring in the ingredients.....and I don't believe I have been sent the advertised product.

Post Edited (AussieDavid) : 8/27/2006 2:37:21 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : SS1984 - 8/27/2006 8:50 PM
I'm glad you wrote this ...I've ordered product few days ago, but now I've cancelled my order.

Posted By : Sum 41 - 8/29/2006 7:40 PM
Hello Everybody...

I have been using Youthair liquid for 1 month and it worked for me...%80 of my gray turned into my original hair color(black)...

I used it daily and got 30 minutes sunshine everyday...

I will go on using this product...I just wanted to inform you...

Have a good time... :-)


p.s. Sorry about my bad English... :-)

Posted By : SS1984 - 8/30/2006 11:54 AM
Youthair contains lead acetate...Lead acetate may cause cancer....I don't [think]grey hair is worth risking your life.

Posted By : zorba990 - 8/30/2006 11:58 AM
Youthair is a dye.

Posted By : Pom - 8/30/2006 5:14 PM
Hi All,

This is not my first language, sorry for errors.

I have been planning to order youthair, thanks for warning.

I have just called one herbalist and she said: "I am 70 and have no greys and you at 40 started so early? Hmm, if you have just started greying please try raw sesame seeds, twice a day a teaspoon, maybe.. "

Schindele's Minerals have been reported to reverse greying, reduce wrinkles when used as a cream as well as different health issues. Their website is poor, but in the book there are quite lot info about it. Basically it is a pulverised rock which contains a wide selection of even uncommon minerals. www.mineralien.co.at
Please have a look at the contenst.

Do you think that rubbing this powder into head would make a difference?

Posted By : davenis - 8/31/2006 2:09 PM
I also purchased the Resthairation combo, got the same thing, womens conditioner.  So far, I like the shampoo and conditioner, the smell doesn't bother me. I am a little doubtful that this can change hair color.  I am new to the forum as far as posting, just wondered what happened to all those BAO SAKA people trying that method?

Posted By : gotsomegray - 8/31/2006 2:09 PM
Yeah, the restHairation men's color rejeuvenating conditioner is just the women's growth conditioner.  I thought they should have gone a little further than putting a label over the front label.  They didn't bother to change the back of the label that tells you what to do with the "women's growth formula".  This in itself isn't going to scare me from their products, but it is a little shaky.  I'm going to keep up with it and will let you know if I have any results.  I'm a much bigger fan of the shampoo anyway.

Posted By : Sum 41 - 8/31/2006 2:12 PM
Hi again...

I read on internet that says:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Risks on Cancer
an article called " material safety Data Sheet" posted on internet by Mallinckrodt Chemicals (JT Baker) from phillipsburg,NJ indicates that Lead acetate compounds are very dangerous for human health causing different kind of cancer.I'll appreciate your comment since I've been using this product for about 1 year.
Question posted by Oscar Borjas Mon Aug 22 2005

Submit your answer
Reply by John Lindberg
5 of 9 people found this answer helpful

Lead acetate is indeed regarded as a carcinogen (i.e. with the potential to induce cancer), because of animal experiments. But to put this in perspective, one has to know that we are talking about much much smaller amounts of the substance here, that it's being applied only to the hair, and that there are known carcinogens in many common types of food such as fried potatoes (high levels of acrylamide). In order to gain FDA approval for its use in cosmetics, lead acetate has been tested on humans. No significant increase in blood levels of lead was seen, which indicates that the substance isn't absorbed by the body in any significant amounts.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Do you think is it true??

The link is:

http://www.folica.com/Youthair_Creme_q618_1.html

Thank you... :-)

Posted By : SS1984 - 9/6/2006 2:21 PM
I've just read in the book "The Complete Idiots Guide to Vitamins And Minerals " by dr Alan. H. Pressman with Sheila Buff this... "PABA is said to extend your life, cure arthritis, even turn your gray hair back to its original color.Does it really do any of these things? Only in the catalogs of the less scrupulous vitamin makers and health food stores"

I hope that's not true

@Sum 41....I have no idea whether it's true or not

Posted By : magha - 9/7/2006 10:40 AM

Hi,there is only one true way to find out what works for you, give it a try. Its not that expensive and you may find it helps. Everyones response is a bit different.


Posted By : PASSABOX - 9/15/2006 9:57 AM
Hi everyone again.

Took 500mg of PABA for 2 months and nothing happened.

Greyhair is the same, nothing changed.

Has anyone done the same try in this meantime and got any result??

Post Edited (PASSABOX) : 9/15/2006 9:34:20 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : SS1984 - 9/19/2006 11:50 AM
I'm using 1000 mg of PABA with folic acid and vitamin C for one and a half month and I only see more gray hairs.

Posted By : AMDr - 9/20/2006 2:59 PM
IMHO supplements may help for the rare cases where a deficiency causing the greying exists and on a personal level I have noted that my hair especially my beard has become a little darker and growing in thicker when I supplemented my testosterone with hCG (I am 47).
However simply on the basis of economics why not just dye your hair - its cheaper, you can change it with the seasons and you only have to do it once every 6-8 weeks rather than taking what can be an increasingly complex addition to an already complicated regimen.

Posted By : zorba990 - 9/27/2006 4:32 PM

There may be a breakthrough related to tanning which may also

help with gray hair

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060926171150.htm

 


Posted By : greybeard - 9/27/2006 6:42 PM
Looks like you and I share some common forums (melanotan.org and this one)...

Posted By : zorba990 - 9/29/2006 10:25 AM
Melanotan is interesting...but they took too long and now there is forskolin.  I think that the spots people get with MTII are caused by liver stress (age pigment), and that MTII is not going to be safe long term. It suffers from the same problem many many medications do. They tweaked a natural molecule making it more powerful but also somewhat toxic.

Any melanin accelerating strategy should go hand in hard with antioxidants.  Even topically. Otherwise the stimulation will equal premature aging (opinion) - same as lots of intensive exercise.

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/30/2006 3:21 PM
http://www.hennaforhair.com/gray/graying.html
http://www.hennaforhair.com/gray/graying1.html
http://www.hennaforhair.com/gray/graying2.html
http://www.hennaforhair.com/gray/graying3.html

Posted By : Harmonic Essentials - 10/4/2006 10:04 AM
1940 Natural Medicine was changed forever.  Innovative doctors, which medicine in reversing illness through healthy foods and reversing colon damage, Doctors who believed in "Treating the CAUSE and not the SYMPTOM" Doctors such as Charles Mayo were quickly replaced by the modern medicine we know of now. "Treating the SYMPTOMS with Pharmaceuticals and passing the CAUSE of illness as the AGING PROCESS."
 
What does this have to do with Hair Graying??? FACT: Grey hair, along with all other "AGING DISEASE" was practically non-existent before 1900. In pictures of my Great Grandfather, at the age of 99 years old had no signs of Gray hair. Yes, there were those who had grey hair but (Pre-mature) graying did not exist.
 
I have read many of these posts in this blog and many others. I have found that people who suffer Graying find it as devastating as someone who suffers "Hairloss" I have seen many people confused with the many home remedies as well as pharmaceutical blends. HERE IS THE FACTS: You did not Grey over night... Ridding Grey from your hair will also not happen overnight! MOST PEOPLE will not stick to a program long enough to ever see any results. FACT: Even though there are more and more people turning to Natural Medicines to improve health and way of life this grossly resembles medicines of today "Treating the SYMPTOMS and NOT THE CAUSE"
 
A person could go a life time searching for remedies or products that may or may not reverse "Graying" the only down fall of this method is: All diseases "such as graying by aging" is PROGRESSIVE... You may find a short term results from a pill or supplement but as we continue to ignore the CAUSE our health continues to deteriorate. FACT: People who lived before 1900 did not have all of these supplements that we have now Yet these people lived much healthier lives then we do now. As I said earlier, There were very rare cases of "Death by disease" Fact: Most diseases that kill millions of people each year did not exist before 1900 as for pre-mature aging "Graying" and graying for the most part non-existent.
 
HERE IS THE MOST STARTLING FACTS!
 
The most startling are the health statistics here in the United States.
 
"United States ranking in Health Issues since the year 1900":
 
* 1900 United States Ranked #1 in the 93 civilized countries
 
* 1920 United States Dropped to #2 in the 93 civilized countries
 
* 1978 United States Dropped to #79th place in the 93 civilized counties
 
Although this type of census hasn't been taken since 1978, it has been estimated that the United States of America now ranks #93 in the 93 civilized countries – LAST PLACE!
 
 
 
You may be asking yourself: "So..... If people before 1900 did not suffer these problems that we suffer now... What happened to change our society so drastically? What is the CAUSE you speak of....
 
Our problem first started in 1870, the first Rolling Mill was invented. This invention was able to extract the wheat germ from the wheat so you would end up with a fluffier, softer, and more eye pleasing white flower. Eliminating such nutrition from its natural state took away the natural vitamin E, antioxidants, and the fat-soluble vitamins that naturally flourish in wheat germ and most importantly in the Fiber of the grain!
 
As history played out 1870, the Rolling Mill invention caught on and in 1880 Appendicitis became very common. (Appendicitis is actually due to a lack of fiber and elimination/movement of toxins from the colon. It soon becomes backed up into the appendix, due to the toxins, stress, and swelling of the appendix, and eventually ruptures.)
 
By 1900, we see the beginning of Pulmonary Embolisms. (A pulmonary embolism is simply the lack of vitamin E. The heart needs this vitamin in order to function, without it the heart will stop beating.)
 
Between 1910-1930, Hemorrhoids, Tumors of the Colon, and Rectal Polyps became common increasing "14 Times", that's a 1400% INCREASE OF ANY PREVIOUS NUMBERS! (Again, this is related to the lack of Fiber in the diet.)
 
Diverticulitis then took center stage around 1924, more serious and alarming results of a nutrition lacking of Fiber.
 
Here is another technological advancement that took place in 1920 and was supposed to help society. (This could possibly be one of the darkest moments in the history of mankind!) The U.S. Department of Health found a Flour Producer for a food-processing manufacturer that was putting chemicals in the flour to whiten, soften, and make the flour much fluffier. These individuals were taken to court and the court ruled that, "No additives were to be put into foods or food supplies!" Of course, this ruling was appealed by the manufactures and was brought to the appellant court, which reversed the decision of all lower court decisions.
 
This case eventually made it to the Supreme Court where it was ruled that, "Absolutely No Adulterated processing, meaning (preservatives and or food contamination) would be allowed by the Supreme Court into our food supply since this would be a direct violation of the Peoples health rights and further more would be Unconstitutional!"
 
This day, which was short lived, had been a monumental victory in American History.
 
Two years after this ruling was made and all had been forgotten, an article was published in what was one of the most prestigious newspapers of its time. The article stated that it was OK to put certain chemicals into our food supplies and thus because directly responsible for manufacturers to take advantage of this opportunity and began slowly introducing more and more unnatural preservatives and contamination into our food supplies.
 
The FDA now has a list of over 3,000 "REGULATED CHEMICALS" which can be legally added to our food supply. These are chemicals that have been proven to cause CANCER in rats when used in elevated amounts. The FDA will claim that the amounts added to your food supply are what they have deemed G.R.A.S. (SAFE LIMITS). Yet what the FDA has not taken into consideration is the fact that YOU may get this deemed G.R.A.S. SAFE AMOUNT in 5 or more different foods that you might consume in a single day! This would mean in actuality a person would be getting 5 TIMES this SAFE LIMIT amount during a course of a single day! This raises an urgent question, "How much were the rats subjected to in order for it to be cancerous to them?" You also have to take into consideration the accumulative factor of repeated ingesting of mega doses of these Chemicals each and every day over the years.
 
Man-made Fertilizers, Growth Enhancers, and Chemical Sprays have demoralized our Produce & Grain causing them to loose much of their natural essentials for life. One of the newer technologies to come onto the scene by our Government is the sterilization of our grain & produce by means of "radiation". Produce & grain will then have a longer shelf life, which is the "greed" fed goal of the Industrial Cartel. This marks the beginning of the end of man's final frontier for preserving nutrition in its natural "LIVE" state!
 
"It will be a great travesty to watch how many new diseases we will develop after this new breakthrough in Governmental food preservation becomes prevalent in our food industry."
 
HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO GREY HAIR:
 
Our bodies immune system is more sophisticate then most people think. Our Immune system was designed to protect from all outside viral attack. Once a virus is introduced to the body, while the body is being attacked, it develops endogens which is stored in memory. If the same virus attacks at anytime of life you body can develop this endogen and destroy the virus within hours of it being introduced.
 
The "Large Intestine/Colon" is the key to OPTIMAL and AGELESS Health. For those of you who find an interest in HOW IMPORTANT it is to keep this organ in OPTIMAL HEALTH. Please reference "Death Begins In The Colon "BRITISH MEDICAL ASSOCIATION 1985" Symptoms are all of those which we the people have been told "Happen" due to age,  "Along with brittle and damaged hair/Graying"
 
After the introduction of "Food Additives and Preservatives" into our food source in 1900,  resource "HISTORY OF A CRIME AGAINST THE FOOD LAW
by Harvey W. Wiley, M.D., the very first commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), then known as the “US Bureau of Chemistry.”  Dr. Wiley's Introduction to His 1929 Book about Corruption in the FDA, Our bodies began taking daily doses of POISONS to our bodies. Our bodies were designed to protect us from these poisons by secreting "Mucus" to the lining of the colon. This mucus is designed to protect our bodies from absorbing these poisons as soon as the poison enters the large intestine the colon acts in reverse flooding the colon with water speeding up the process of moving these poisons through the colon and out the body.
 
Before the 1900 this process occurred rarely, only when the body was attacked by virus or poisons by mistake. Today we are "BOMBARDED" by these poisons each and every meal we eat!!!
 
This mucus properties are very thick and sticky even though much of this mucus is released during our trips to the bathroom there is much of it that remains in our colon throughout our life. By the age of 40 most of us will have accumulated over 20lbs of this "Hardened Fecal Matter" In fact people such as "Elvis Presley and John Wayne" Over 40 pounds of this Mucus was found during autopsy's performed on these famous people.
 
Summery: The only way to Optimal health and reversing "Aging" can only be done through removing this "Hardened Mucus" From the colon.
 
During the late 1980's into the mid 1990's I worked with many terminal ill patients. I traveled many countries in Europe with my mentor who himself along with a group of students worked with All "Terminally Ill Patients" Not only did most of these people reverse their illness. They found a reverse in the aging process.  Including GRAYING.
 
All of you who feel confused by all of the "MIRACLE SNAKE OIL CURES AND POTIONS" of Graying... Understand that treating the SYMPTOMS simply does not make sense! You will simply spend your life following cure after cure never finding the answer. It makes more sense to "FIX THE CAUSE" doing this will end ALL of those nagging MIRACLE SOLUTION QUESTIONS you may have...IT SIMPLY MAKES SENSE!!!
 
Before following any "Gimmick " educate yourself. There are many people out there who will willingly take your money and leave you dry when you do not find results.  The answer is YES... Many of these so called antidotes might work if "ONLY IF" your body did not have all of this build up of TOXIC WASTE in your colon. You could receive 100% of the properties if this mucus was not stopping 95% of its absorption.... That's even if you needed these antidotes "After your colon was again working at perfisancie"
 
You can find more understanding of the history of diseases and why they have happened you can subscribe to "Naturally Speaking Newsletter" by requesting it harmonicessentials@yahoo.com We are also working on innovative products for all of your aging problems. In the near future we will tell you where you will be able to find the latest literature and products where you will find all of your aging answers.
 
- That John Wayne anecdote is an urban legend. - Moderator

Posted By : greybeard - 10/4/2006 10:12 AM
Possible age but my 3 year old has a big hyperpigmentation mark on his palm and a few small ones on his face. Always more coming with little to no UV. My 8 year old also gets them quickly from little sun exposer. Tans fast without burning but still gets many new ones. I'm still in my 30s and get the same thing. But again we don't really get much UV on purpose.

With just a little MII thrown in however it goes crazy for me. Other than the back of my hands and tops of my feet (which remain spot free), I believe every part received something new. Most all are minute but darker and more defined dots than freckles. Yes I am also on the unofficial "Forskolin experiment" panel there.

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 10/4/2006 10:13 AM
Natural cures to stop or reverse gray hair:
 
 
#1. Blackstrap Molasses
#2. AMLA BERRY -- FROM INDIA
#3. IODINE
#4: BEE POLLEN
#5: COPPER AND ZINC SUPPLEMENTS
#7: Apple Cider Vinegar
#8: Chlorophyll
#9: Inhaling Hydrogen Peroxide (???)


Posted By : Conquer - 10/7/2006 10:58 PM
It would seem there is hope for the issue with this patent:
 
 
Cany somebody with knowledge of the patenting process comment on how far this might be from being a commmercial reality?
 
Note that the 'Documents' page appears to contain current correspondence relating to the status of the patent.
 
 

Posted By : zorba990 - 10/8/2006 6:26 PM
Conquer said...
It would seem there is hope for the issue with this patent:
 
 
Cany somebody with knowledge of the patenting process comment on how far this might be from being a commmercial reality?
 
Note that the 'Documents' page appears to contain current correspondence relating to the status of the patent.
 
 
Its another cyclic AMP stimulator.  Check out Forskolin.

Posted By : Conquer - 10/9/2006 1:42 PM
Can you explain a little more of what you know of this Zorba990?
Do you think there is reason to be hopeful about this one?

Posted By : zorba990 - 10/10/2006 4:11 PM
Conquer said...
Can you explain a little more of what you know of this Zorba990?
Do you think there is reason to be hopeful about this one?
Not very much.  I think cAMP is fascinating and forskolin / Coleus is very interesting in the way it manifests its effects (cAMP activation).  cAMP probably has a role in hair growth as well as melanocyte signaling. 
 
I'll probably be reformulating my topical to add the proper type of this along with some other new things. 

Posted By : Zach - 10/17/2006 6:38 PM

How do you all think the glyconutrients from some of these glyconutrient suppliers compare?

GlycoWellness Int's Glyconutrients and this glyconutrients supplier  Has anyone used either of these brands of glyconutrients before?

Thanks.

Clark


Posted By : AussieDavid - 10/17/2006 6:42 PM
On recommendation from my doctor, I included R-Dihydro-Lipoic Acid in my latest order with LEF. I then stumbled across another thread in this forum discussing Alpha Lipoic Acid. The discussion included comments that it caused rapid greying of hair.
 
 
Can anyone give me advice in relation to whether or not I should take it if I am trying to reverse grey hair? My doctor recommended it to me for it's antioxidant qualities. I did not think to ask him at the time about its' effect on hair colour.
 
Also, I recently  visited a trichologist in my continuing attempt to try and work out why I have almost totally grey hair, yet my brothers have virtually no grey at all (I'm 36, they are 38 and 34y/o). The trichologist took a hair sample and sent it to 'Doctors Data' Laboratory in Illinois. I'll scan the results and post them here when I get some more time, but my zinc/copper ratio was 2.27. A normal expected range is 4 - 20. The trichologist told me to stop zinc supplementation. Up until a couple of months before this test, I had been taking a bio-zinc tablet each day for approximatley 2-3 years. In that time the greying acclerated considerably, though I was definitely well on the path before I started the zinc supplementation. If my Zn/Cu ratio is LOWER than the normal range (as it is here), doesn't that mean I have low zinc levels in relation to copper levels? If so, I don't understand why the trichologist told me to stop zinc supplementation.
 
 

Posted By : flowergirl - 10/22/2006 8:04 PM
Doesn't cAMP work in the same way as bimatoprost, which will eventually wear out the melanocytes?

Posted By : zorba990 - 10/23/2006 11:14 AM
flowergirl said...
Doesn't cAMP work in the same way as bimatoprost, which will eventually wear out the melanocytes?
Perhaps, and antioxidants particulary PABA may help keep this safer long term. 
One thing that is interesting to me is the fact that although virtually everyone's hair goes gray at some point , not everyone develops loss of skin pigmentation ability.  IOW the melanocytes in the skin continue to function and presumably be replaced even in dark skinned individuals whose hair has gone gray.  Those melanocytes get activated by oxidative stimulation.
 
And even to the point where you may have gray beard hair but no problem tanning
in the skin underneath.
 
I am VERY curious at this point to know the blood vitamin D levels of people with gray hair, particularly those that have gone gray early.
 
 


Posted By : flowergirl - 10/23/2006 9:38 PM
why d vitamins? becos they are related to tanning? and if you were gonna add cAMP to your formula, how would you apply it? and doesnt that mean that the bimatoprost is worth using if it does the same job?

Posted By : zorba990 - 10/30/2006 12:28 PM
flowergirl said...
why d vitamins? becos they are related to tanning? and if you were gonna add cAMP to your formula, how would you apply it? and doesnt that mean that the bimatoprost is worth using if it does the same job?
Unfortunately, Coleus (source for Forskolin, a cAMP activator) seems to cause dermatitis,
so it's off my list for the moment.  I'm not interested in bimatoprost since it is not AFAIK
a naturally occuring substance with a human nutritional need.
 
A good discussion of vitamin D is going on here:
 
 
Since optimal D blood levels may be necessary for tanning, I am speculating that they may also be necessary for hair pigmentation.  In addition, we already know that D3, along with other phytonutrients, stimulates stem cell production
 
 
Someone should do a study to find out if locally increasing vit D levels results in the replenishment of hair shaft melanocytes.
 
Also interesting is that mice lacking a vitamin D receptor lose their hair:
 
 
Cosmetic manufacturers probably won't get FDA approval to add vitamin D to their products because of potential toxicity issues (since they can't easily control the dose someone would use/get).  But we can add it to our own topicals.
 
 

Posted By : StarGazer - 11/4/2006 8:18 PM
Given the SOD tests on mice, I am wondering if GliSodin www.glisodin.com might help.

It's a little expensive, but apparently, it can bypass the digestive tract. Word is SOD is not effective because it's broken down by the digestive tract. GliSODin is supposed to be a breakthrough in this area. It's $30 for 60 caps at Swanson Vitamins. Not that expensive but I already spend too much on vitamins.

Even better might be the SOD topical that was mentioned earlier in this thread. Anyone tried that yet?

SOD is backed by solid lab research, unlike most other wang chung b.s. therapies listed in this thread.  But, not sure if SOD orals might help.

I think the best hope right now is the Allergen patent that was used for glaucoma (sp?) Anyone planning on trying that? Allergen apparently does not plan on any clinical trials for grey hair.

I tried He Shou Wu for about 2.5 years without any success. Some have reported success with it, but I haven't. I'm about 30% grey, but in the past year, the rate of progression has really picked up. At this rate, I'll be totally grey soon, so I want to halt it if I can.

I'm dropping zinc supplementation (except for the multi). Also, I dropping Minoxidil.com's (Dr. Lee's) products and going back to just 5% Minoxidil - this time with the foam. Dr. Lee adds an acidic ingredient to his minoxidil that doesn't agree with my hair. Doubtful that is adding to the grey, but I'm not taking any chances.

I've read every thread on the board here and want to thank those who reported non-success with certain products and experiments. It's saved me tons of time and anguish.

I might try GliSODin soon. I was going to try PABA, but won't now.

Dr. James Baral - a derm in NYC discovered that when he applied a combo of Retin-A and a hydroxy acid, it not only turned his grey hair back to it's original color, but also tanned his forehead where he made the small application.

Any guesses on what the hydroxy acid was? He never did develop a product from that, and it pizzes me off that he won't tell anyone what it was. Seems to me that would be very safe and easy to develop at home.

Posted By : Conquer - 11/6/2006 11:02 AM
"Dr. James Baral - a derm in NYC discovered that when he applied a combo of Retin-A and a hydroxy acid, it not only turned his grey hair back to it's original color, but also tanned his forehead where he made the small application"
 
The above mentioned unfortunately was found to be unsuccessful in treating grey hair.
 
You mention that Allegran is not planning clinical trials - but surely the patent is backed with findings? 

Posted By : sfrbm - 11/6/2006 11:03 AM
Life Extension AlREADY uses GliSODin in their SODZyme with GliSODin Formula
 

Posted By : StarGazer - 11/6/2006 8:58 PM
conquer - it's kind of irrelevant now that Dr. Baral won't release any product, but where did you hear that his concoction doesn't work for grey hair? Longevity Mag. reported about 10 years ago that he said it turned his grey hair back to its original color in areas where he accidentally smeared it (near his forehead).

sfrbm - after my post, I found the GliSODin LEF product and ordered some.

As for Allergen, they don't list any grey hair trials on their clinical trials page. You can contact them if you like, but I don't believe they are planning any grey hair trials for their glaucoma product.

Posted By : orbit71 - 11/10/2006 1:16 PM
what about COSMELYNK ?
 

Posted By : Gaizz - 11/10/2006 1:59 PM
orbit71 said...
what about COSMELYNK ?
 
It's a dye....

Posted By : Goku - 11/14/2006 1:00 AM
zorba990 said...
greyboy said...

US PATENT: 20050214821



This is a patent filed by Loreal paris about reversing grey hair by fixing the genetic problem that causes it. apparently by administering "polynucleotide fragments" in a form of lotion or shampoo you can reverse grey hair. This patent is only brand new but hopefully a shampoo isn't far away. Its reassuring that it is in the hands of a big international company that would have the ability to release it quickly to the market. let me know what you all think.


Sounds like pTpT Thymidine Dinucleotide which was used to tan the skins of pigs and was going to be developed into a sunless tanning cream.



http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:QvvHJYSTurMJ:www.shopbloomfield.com/ironwill/CurrentIssue/ptpt.html+pTpT+thymidine+dinucleotide&hl=en



pTpT are little DNA fragments that the body uses to repair damaged DNA. They are also a a pigmentation signal so it would be unclear if the effect was through DNA repair or through stimulation of pigmentation response.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9356500&dopt=Citation



It would be interesting if the effect was through DNA repair but less so if it is simply stimulating an already tired system. Topical tyrosinase and DOPA like compunds are, IMHO also likely to be simply stimulating a worn out system and would be of limited us long term (like taking a cup of coffee to stimulate adrenals instead of giving them fuel like pantothenic acid <oversimplified> )






Hi, I was wondering you mentioned PTPT and then went on to comment on topical tyrosinase and DOPA like compounds; do you mean to say topical tyrosinase and DOPA like compounds can stimulate tanning in skin?

This would very valuable to me who lives in a very sunny climate with very fair and sensitive skin that has already accrued lots of sun damage. Please let me know.

Seems like pTpT would be too risky a thing to try right in that regard from what I've read until human clinicals have elucidated more on that.

Posted By : island808 - 11/14/2006 2:57 PM
I've been taking 500 mg daily of PABA for close to four months now and haven't noticed any discernable reversal in graying.  
What about HGH? Not the analogs or percursers but the real deal expensive injectable stuff. Any reports of gray reversal there? (I can't afford the $ to go that route but am just curious.)


Posted By : gotsomegray - 12/7/2006 11:36 AM
Just an update on my trials.  I have not been on Reminex/Melancor for a year.  I've been using resthairation shampoo for about four months now along with trying a couple different scalp massagers.  I'm also taking anti-oxidants as a supplement.  My latest is about a week ago I've started applying amla oil to my scalp a few nights a week for a couple hours.  I don't have any progress as of yet, but I'm still going to keep on for now.  In about six months if I don't see any progress, I think I may try Arganine.

Posted By : ssphere - 12/7/2006 5:12 PM
Almost 50% of my hair are gray and 10% on my chest and bear. I'm very keen to find a solution which can stop or reverse my grey hair growth.

I tried Melancor NH for3 months but did not find any difference. Want to knowif anyone has tried Herb China
http://www.herbchina2000.com/therapies/LGH.shtml

Posted By : SS1984 - 12/8/2006 7:14 PM
On that site they say that you can get premature grey hair from masturbating too much....Yeah right, and Santa Claus really exists....

I've been trying PABA 500 mg for 4 months now, with no results...Best solution for grey hair : dye it.
 
- The above hypothesis rests on zinc depletion. - Mod.

Posted By : easybrit - 12/10/2006 6:24 PM
I am interested to hear a couple of suggestions on this topic that refer us to the hair dye shelves at the supermarket.

I've been using these products for many years, hair dye on the head every two months, and facial hair dye once a week or every two weeks on a short trimmed beard but have stopped after reading and subsequently researching the ingredients of these products - which all sound horrifyingly dangerous. Thed idea of the skin - particularly under the beard - absorbing these toxins is the stuff nightmares are made of.

Am I perhaps over-reacting here - or is just better to accept the gray hair and get on with my life. :-)

I wonder! Any thoughts?

Posted By : gotsomegray - 12/21/2006 12:56 PM
Well, I've got another link for everyone that "sounds promising".  I know that probably gets really old when going through this thread, but I would love to hear some comments on this.  I will probably try this in a couple months after I'm done with my current experiments that haven't shown any benefit yet.
 
 
This is another HGH releaser type of product that contains several essential amino acids.

Posted By : P.Minton, MD - 12/21/2006 10:06 PM
There is a theory that anything that opens up the small arteries serving the hair follicles reverses greying. Some drs claim that their arterial cleansing IVs reverse grey hair in some people.


Posted By : brm - 12/29/2006 3:40 PM
Hello.

I am a newbie on this forum and I have "bad" news for us all. None of the treatments I have been using works:
-3 months on 1000 mg PABA then 1 month on 2000 mg: no effect. nono
-5 months now on Ho shou wu twice a day: no effect. nono
-2 months on black sesam once a day: no effect. nono
- 1 year and a half intermittently on 3 g arginine + 5 g ornithine daily: no effect. nono
-2 months on topical melatonin: no effect, nono unless it has rather made things worse as some UK study implies it may.
-7 years on moderate to high doses of beta-carotene: no effect nono

I also take biotin, a little topical tyrosine, 2 mg copper, 17 mg Zinc, multivit, flax lignans, etc...

What is there left to try? burger I might go in for melatonan [does anyone know if there can be any results with this, hairwise?  (Their search engine returns very few results)], topical copper peptides (has anyone had any success?) and injectable HGH.
idea The last resort will be Grecian. I heard that they had replaced lead acetate with something else that made the product less toxic (but was it THAT toxic) but les effective as well (?)...

Any comments, suggestions, questions appreciated.

Thank you. yeah

Posted By : AussieDavid - 12/31/2006 4:31 PM

Hi brm,

The only other thing I can think of is trying Bimatoprost. It's been mentioned a few times before on this forum. Here is a link to the allergan patent.

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=US2004027547&DISPLAY=DESC

My current hair routine has a lot of similarities to yours:

 - He Shou Wu (6 x 400mg caps/day)

 - 2000mg PABA/day

 - 3g Tyrosine/day

 - 1ml DMAE H3/day

 - SODZYME with Glysodin (3 caps/day)

 - RestHAIRation 'Color Rejuvenator' shampoo and conditioner (wouldn't recommend it).

 - LEF MIX tabs (9/day... contains 35mg zinc and 1mg copper).

 - Trans-d-Tropin to stimulate HGH release.

I also take other LEF supplements for general health (CoQ10, Prostate formula, Omega 3.....)
 
I have definitely found a few hairs which are grey on the tip and have a dark base. I feel like I have started to have some reversal, though I am still very grey. Maybe I am just getting comfortable about my grey hair, but until recently I always used to put 'just for men' through my hair before getting it cut. Now I'm happy to get it cut without dying it first (I take a cap with me). I find that if I wet my hair and put enough 'product' in it, then the greys are not so noticeable. I'm gonna continue on my current routine for the next 12 months. It took years for me to go grey, so I figure it may take a long time to reverse it.

Posted By : dLaertios - 12/31/2006 4:33 PM
Hi,

Brm, reversing gray hair isn' t so easy after all. The solution will be the right combination of supplements for some time to have a visible effect.  The good thing is that searching for success stories you will find the same ingredients : PABA, vitamin E, vitamin C, copper, B complex, iron.  I guess we have to experiment and stick with a remedy for a long time.  What is your age and how much grey hair do you have?
Look at this patented remedy as it is close to your way.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6149933.html

Personally I take black strap molasses first thing in morning, drink acv and started vitamin E 1000 iu and beta carotene 15 mg.  I think that I have less gray hair since I first tried to reverse the graying (9 months ago) but the changes aren't so dramatic. But we have to stick with a remedy for a long time. After all don't forget you have to save and the other hair from going grey (second head).

Posted By : zorba990 - 12/31/2006 4:37 PM
After adjusting a topical formula several times, I beleive the topical ionic copper and topical DMAE-H3 were key.

Posted By : Conquer - 12/31/2006 11:09 PM
I suggest a collaborated effort to research the prior mentioned possibly effective ingredients / factors.

Consider our situation: We have identified numerous ingredients / factors, numerous possible quantities of such and methods of application / consumption. However, the time taken to test any of these (in isolation or otherwise) is possibly in excess of 12 months. Therefore it is impractical for any one person to scientifically / systematically sequentially test more than a few possibilities. However, there are a great many gray haired individuals out there who would likely be motivated, and might be available to participate in a well constructed collaborative internet-based scientific study. Assuming we recruited the required numbers of participants, we could in the space of a couple of years test extensively and thoroughly every variation of every approach that remains under consideration on this forum today. Think open-source research...

The construction of such a study would need careful consideration. Processes for scientific methods and data accumulation would need to be carefully defined. We could never escape the fact that such a study would not match a typical scientific study, where conditions are much more precisely controlled. However, with careful planning we might eliminate or account for, to some extent, our reduced control. Hopefully 2 years on we just might have some meaningful data...

To accomplish this would be no small undertaking. Obviously a dedicated web facility would need to be constructed. People of scientific competence would need to be involved at the level of study design and moderation, and I would also very strongly suggest governance by medical Doctors and physiologists. However, between the millions of us affected by gray hair, there just might be enough motivation and resource to accomplish this.

Posted By : Niko - 1/1/2007 11:09 PM
Has anyone heard of this product?

Advanced Bao Shi for Men™

It's guaranteed to reverse hair loss and premature graying.

They also state is contains medicinal herbs from both Traditional Chinese Medicine and Ayurvedic Medicine used successfully for hair loss and premature graying in China. In addition, it contains Saw Palmetto, known for its reputation for blocking DHT. (DHT has been implicated as a factor in men’s hair loss.)

http://www.biomed-health.com

Posted By : dLaertios - 1/4/2007 11:47 AM
Conquer,
I think most of us have tried something and put our conclusions for some remedies. It's difficult to make a huge experiment by ourselves.

The good news is that as Zorba says ionic copper and DMAE works topically. Also I think that you have to add vitamin E to your supplements; it's my premature conclusion but I believe it works. I don' t know to what degree and how but as far as I see to the ones that they haven't success although they take a lot of supplements they don' t take a supplement of E (at least 800 iu).

Last but not least if you can see the previous link with the patent and also this one http://www.recouleur.com/  you can see that people with vitiligo can reverse their gray using a special formula.

I see AussieDavid takes 2000 PABA (too much) but I can't understand why he doesn't give up with all the other supplements he takes and add folic, B5 and B6 and less PABA. That formula works. Look at the 2 links I gave. PABA alone probably won't work and he is in danger to suffer from vitiligo himself with so high doses of PABA. AussieDavid try to add straight vitamin E, paba, folic, B5, B6, copper and cut all the other crap and see in a couple of months what will happen and tell us.

I was laughing at guys that took large amounts of supplement but I do it now because of the stress having a head full of gray hair before 30 (although my facial now started to go gray) and to have to go for work, to be a single, to have to answer questions like how old are you with this silly direct eye contact.

I forgot I dye my hair very often and think that makes the situation worst as it wears the scalp, so if Froscolin for topical works the same way as Bismatoprost I wouldn't bother to use. As about the opinions of zorba and flower girl that bismatoprost wears out melanocytes I was LOL.  What melanocytes? Of the already gray hair? If this works it is a HUGE DISCOVERY. Can you imagine the suffering of the scalp using all these dangerous chemicals as you dye it? If Bismatoprost works and if I find it I will go for it. Reading the patent and the experiments I believe it works. And my question goes to Zorba: do you believe that froscolin will have the same success? How can anyone who would like using bismatoprost or similar product will be able to find it and make a regimen? Also these chemicals are innocent (are they suspicious for cancers)? I know that you have the best chemistry knowledge in this forum, that's why I ask.
Regards
P.S.
My supplement regimen (Quest): Super Mega B+C after lunch, E 1000 iu and beta- carotene 15 mg after dinner.

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 1/4/2007 9:50:50 AM (GMT-5)


Posted By : Kola - 1/8/2007 12:10 AM
Get Gary Null's GET HEALTHY NOW - the revised book with 22 added chapters. Look at the hair protocol in it. He has conducted a number of hair studies with thousands of people. It has all been documented and photographed. The people who got excellent results did the protocol FULLY.  If you do it halfway, you may experience things like increased energy, rapid fingernail growth and etc..., but possibly no reversal and darkening of hair. Null's lifelong nutritional focus has been to find ways to repair DNA and reverse the aging process as much as possible. He has manged to do that. Again, its all documented.
If you go to his website at www.garynull.com , you will see the results of one of his studies. Only 2% of the people who participated did not experience any change. Please remember that many did not finish.
I have see the hair changes with my own eyes. I have gone to his center in NY, and I've seen many people with dark roots and a head of grey hair. Its a common phenemonenon that there are people who have been bald and greying for 20 or more years to get their full head of hair back with its natural hair color.
If you happen to get the book at the library, you will see the nonrevised version. The pages of the hair protocol in that version are 848 and 849. Or call his office at 646-505-6440. They may be able to fax you the protocol, or at least you can ask questions.
I have not lost my hair yet. I'm just interested in all things concerning the body. Just thought I'd let you guys and gals know that there is hope.
In my crude opinion, I must say that if you improve adrenal function, you will find that you will generally at least halt greying and loss. Then you can go about re-growing it. Most of us are chronically stressed or in "fight or flight mode," which stresses the adrenal glands. That leaves them depleted. The hair usually starts to go grey then. Taking many supplements at the wrong time, dosage, and with some of its "other ingredients", will also stress the adrenals. Eating the wrong foods, pollution, LACK OF SLEEP (super-big one), LACK OF VERY GOOD QUALITY WATER and LACK OF SUN at the proper time, will also stress the adrenals. Take care of the things in bold, and also of the supplement issues and you will help to rejuvenate your adrenals. But I digress...
 
Again Gary Null's  protocol is designed to detoxify, repair the DNA, and reverse aging at least to the degree that we can. And we can! Its just that many of us don't know and never really try to restore our your innate biological aptitude. Anyway,  along with the hair benefit, your body, by default, will go through great changes. I may have issues with Gary Null personality, I cannot deny he knows his stuff, and he has proved it over and over and over again.
Good luck to all of you!

"You see things;  and you say, 'Why?'  But I dream things that never were; 

And I say, 'Why not?' "       

-----George Bernard Shaw

Post Edited (Kola) : 1/7/2007 11:42:39 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : swetha - 1/9/2007 1:30 PM
ok my advice is to !! You can take home made medicine for your good hair ..
.. Home Remedy Tip 3: Daily application of coconut oil mixed with lime juice on the hair is also beneficial. Applying juice of green coriander leaves on the head is good
Home Remedy Tip 4: Rub your scalp vigorously after washing the hair. It increases the blood circulation. and locate the root cause in your diet
Home Remedy Tip 5: Massage your scalp with fingers gently. It will help to improve blood circulation.
Home Remedy Tip 6:Apply Amla oil for hair conditioning.
Home Remedy Tip 7: Wash your hair with warm apple cider vinegar. Then cover your head with a towel or a shower cap and leave for about 30-40 minutes. Rinse with plain water. Repeat 2 times a week until your dandruff goes away.
Home Remedy Tip 8: Brush gently. Don't brush wet hair. Untangle hair with fingers gently.

http://myhomeremedy.blogspot.com/














http://myhomeremedy.blogspot.com

Posted By : BartSimpson - 1/10/2007 1:32 PM
Hey.

Just to keep everyone uptodate.

I too have taken PABA with no success.


Cheers



---------------------------------------------------------

www.englishisland.com.br

Posted By : Niko - 1/10/2007 1:32 PM
Since this product guarantees to reverse hair loss and premature graying, it should considered:
 
Bao Shi for Men and Woman™

http://www.biomed-health.com

Posted By : AussieDavid - 1/10/2007 1:32 PM

I spoke to the compounding chemist who makes up my minoxidil/retinoic acid solution the other day and she is very keen to experiment with a topical solution for grey hair.

What I need is suggestions from members about the best possible ingredients for a topical solution. Zorba has mentioned DMAE and Copper. I was thinking maybe melatonin as well?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

 


Posted By : StinkyJoe - 1/10/2007 1:33 PM
Niko said...
Has anyone heard of this product?

Advanced Bao Shi for Men™
...
Yes, I Bao Shi for a year or more. It did not reverse the grey, but it did make my hair quite a bit thicker. Since I stopped using it a year or two ago, the grey has gotten worse, so it might have helped some with stopping new greys.

Posted By : brm - 1/10/2007 6:43 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6766170&dopt=Abstract

Aussie, check this out. I read thru the complete study (accessible on the journal of dermatology's site). It tends to demonstrate that melatonin is in fact DETRIMENTAL to hair colour. And I can only corroborate this fear. My greying has increased over the 2 months I was on topical melatonin.

Last week, I added amla oil to my regimen, the alleged best Indian remedy...

Posted By : brm - 1/10/2007 7:05 PM
Zorba990, where do you get your topical ionic copper and DMAE-H3 from?
Thank you.

Posted By : zorba990 - 1/10/2007 10:59 PM
brm said...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6766170&dopt=Abstract

Aussie, check this out. I read thru the complete study (accessible on the journal of dermatology's site). It tends to demonstrate that melatonin is in fact DETRIMENTAL to hair colour. And I can only corroborate this fear. My greying has increased over the 2 months I was on topical melatonin.

Last week, I added amla oil to my regimen, the alleged best Indian remedy...
That has not been my experience.  IMHO melatonin has a special relationship with stem cells as does phosphatidylserine.

Posted By : brm - 1/11/2007 11:57 AM
How do you mean Zorba? You are positive about melatonin's harmlesness from using it yourself? or even had some reversal? How much melatonin did you use daily, what concentration and for how long?

Posted By : zorba990 - 1/11/2007 1:15 PM
brm said...
How do you mean Zorba? You are positive about melatonin's harmlesness from using it yourself? or even had some reversal? How much melatonin did you use daily, what concentration and for how long?
> 1 year - about 3mg per day topically.  The study quoted says nothing about
topical application in relation to hair pigmentation.  It might have an effect on skin
pigmentation but, again, I've seen no removal or alteration of melanin on my forehead.  I would expect to see a tan line there and there is nothing.  Of course it may be that the number of other nutrients has a balancing effect.  Its in my formula for a number of reasons (hair growth, medium for stem cells, possible stimulation of stem cell growth, seems to counteract irritation in an opposite manner to cortisol).  Vitamin D was recently added for similar reasons.  I'm fairly close to 100% reversal - removing the copper and DMAE-H3 for a few months set me back a little bit.  It's not any kind of exact science.
 
 
 

Posted By : hermes - 1/11/2007 1:45 PM
1-Has anyone tried emu oil (different from indian amla oil) for reversing gray hairs?
 
2-And has anyone experience with topical NAC?
 
3-Zorba, you said somewhere in this forum that you take PABA for gray hair and NAC for hair loss. Do you take them at the same time? I'd like to take both in my regimen, but NAC contains sulfur and PABA can interfere with it.
 

Posted By : zorba990 - 1/11/2007 5:18 PM
hermes said...
1-Has anyone tried emu oil (different from indian amla oil) for reversing gray hairs?
 
2-And has anyone experience with topical NAC?
 
3-Zorba, you said somewhere in this forum that you take PABA for gray hair and NAC for hair loss. Do you take them at the same time? I'd like to take both in my regimen, but NAC contains sulfur and PABA can interfere with it.
 
PABA can theoretically interfere with sulfa antibiotics because they have a similar structure.  No relation to NAC that I know of.  I take DMAE-H3 orally with other supplements.
 
Maybe topical glisodin might help?

Posted By : brm - 1/12/2007 12:57 PM
zorba990 said...
brm said...

How do you mean Zorba? You are positive about melatonin's harmlesness from using it yourself? or even had some reversal? How much melatonin did you use daily, what concentration and for how long?
> 1 year - about 3mg per day topically. The study quoted says nothing about
topical application in relation to hair pigmentation. It might have an effect on skin

pigmentation but, again, I've seen no removal or alteration of melanin on my forehead. I would expect to see a tan line there and there is nothing. Of course it may be that the number of other nutrients has a balancing effect. Its in my formula for a number of reasons (hair growth, medium for stem cells, possible stimulation of stem cell growth, seems to counteract irritation in an opposite manner to cortisol). Vitamin D was recently added for similar reasons. I'm fairly close to 100% reversal - removing the copper and DMAE-H3 for a few months set me back a little bit. It's not any kind of exact science.


Download the study (PDF) at http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v74/n1/abs/5616101a.html
Can't in vitro culture be likened to topical aplication? Is this not always the more or less admitted equation in in vitro testing? I applied 3 mg daily of melatonin for 3 months as well and saw things only worsen all the way long.

Anyway, you are close to 100% reversal and the only one on this site to be so. What's your exact regimen and how far are you back from, in this reversal process, i.e, how much grey hair did you have?
Thanks.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 1/12/2007 1:03 PM

Hi Zorba,

I have gone back through this thread and found this post from you:

"I apply 1 dropperful DMAE-H3, 1 capful ionic copper, 1T arginine and 1T carnosine topically.  I make this on the fly not in advance.  It stinks to high hell, so on occasion I have tried adding some essential oils of orange, lavendar, rosemary, etc. -- but I don't always remember to do that.  I take NAC sustain to stop fallout of hair (I might be considered a norwood .5 or something, but previously had some thinning at the top front).  I am leary of minoxidil, but might explore other things if the thinning comes back."
 
I was wondering if this is still the exact forumla you are using? I get the impression you are applying topical melatonin as well?
 
I am getting my compounding chemist to make up a topical solution for me and I want to make sure I have the best ingredients possible. Do you think adding bimatoprost would be a good idea?
 
In regards to the minoxidil, I have a 7% Minoxidil, 0.025% Retinoic Acid solution compounded for me and have been using it for several years with good results.
 

Posted By : viroid - 1/12/2007 5:07 PM
I'm 27 and going grey. I'll be salt and pepper by 30. Its not that big of a deal I guess. Most people say i'll look distingushed. :) I say thanks for nothing. Maybe if i was a prof it would be nice, but i work construction.

Posted By : brm - 1/12/2007 5:17 PM
Good point, Aussie, and I've found this as well

"1. Instead of just He Shou Wu, take Shou Wu Jit the original fermented forumla, comes in an I dream of Genie type bottle at the Chinese herb store (beware of potential metal toxicity with some brands).
2. Source of DMAE-H3 is http://www.beyond-a-century.com/ I think it's $8.00.  I am currently taking a double dose with no issues (worked up to it over 6 months or so).
3. Are you taking a multinutrient like LE Mix?  Nutrients work synergistically and taking something special purpose won't usually work well if the basics are not covered (for instance pantothenic acid is required in larger doses for anything that is cholinergic).
4. DMAE-H3 and liquid ionic copper topically.  Too much oral copper is not good, and should be balanced with zinc.  Among other things, copper is particularly toxic to microorganisms and could possible kill off good GI bacteria if taken to excess.
I've noticed head hair darkening more than beard hair and I think it is due to topical PABA and copper.
 
5. SODZyme/GLisodin from LEF
 
6. Experimental...topical carnosine.  I am currently using the powder from BAC in my topical regimen.
 
7. Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer from LEF or similar forumula.
 
That's about all I can think of for now.  I won't publish such a list again as it's been done several times in this thread already.

with this: More than 95% 'reversal'.  Not sure if that is the correct term as I haven't stopped the treatment."



Zorba, can you streamline your regimen since your personal experience may have evolved lately? And what about melatonin at all???

Thank you.

Post Edited (brm) : 1/12/2007 3:24:09 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : zorba990 - 1/16/2007 5:26 PM
AussieDavid said...

Hi Zorba,

I have gone back through this thread and found this post from you:

"I apply 1 dropperful DMAE-H3, 1 capful ionic copper, 1T arginine and 1T carnosine topically.  I make this on the fly not in advance.  It stinks to high hell, so on occasion I have tried adding some essential oils of orange, lavendar, rosemary, etc. -- but I don't always remember to do that.  I take NAC sustain to stop fallout of hair (I might be considered a norwood .5 or something, but previously had some thinning at the top front).  I am leary of minoxidil, but might explore other things if the thinning comes back."
 
I was wondering if this is still the exact forumla you are using? I get the impression you are applying topical melatonin as well?
 
I am getting my compounding chemist to make up a topical solution for me and I want to make sure I have the best ingredients possible. Do you think adding bimatoprost would be a good idea?
 
In regards to the minoxidil, I have a 7% Minoxidil, 0.025% Retinoic Acid solution compounded for me and have been using it for several years with good results.
 
 
I am currently avoding any xenobiotics in topicals.  As far as the 'exact' forumula, it changes as I try different things.  As I posted previously, though, for the hair graying effects I think DMAE-H3 and copper are key.  Several sources of both ionic and peptide copper forumulas report the same thing.  Google/froogle can be used to search or purchase. 
 

Posted By : zorba990 - 1/16/2007 5:53 PM
brm said...
Good point, Aussie, and I've found this as well

"1. Instead of just He Shou Wu, take Shou Wu Jit the original fermented forumla, comes in an I dream of Genie type bottle at the Chinese herb store (beware of potential metal toxicity with some brands).
2. Source of DMAE-H3 is http://www.beyond-a-century.com/ I think it's $8.00.  I am currently taking a double dose with no issues (worked up to it over 6 months or so).
3. Are you taking a multinutrient like LE Mix?  Nutrients work synergistically and taking something special purpose won't usually work well if the basics are not covered (for instance pantothenic acid is required in larger doses for anything that is cholinergic).
4. DMAE-H3 and liquid ionic copper topically.  Too much oral copper is not good, and should be balanced with zinc.  Among other things, copper is particularly toxic to microorganisms and could possible kill off good GI bacteria if taken to excess.
I've noticed head hair darkening more than beard hair and I think it is due to topical PABA and copper.
 
5. SODZyme/GLisodin from LEF
 
6. Experimental...topical carnosine.  I am currently using the powder from BAC in my topical regimen.
 
7. Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer from LEF or similar forumula.
 
That's about all I can think of for now.  I won't publish such a list again as it's been done several times in this thread already.

with this: More than 95% 'reversal'.  Not sure if that is the correct term as I haven't stopped the treatment."



Zorba, can you streamline your regimen since your personal experience may have evolved lately? And what about melatonin at all???

Thank you.
Yes, I have been adding melatonin for a while.  I added it for reasons described previously.  From what I can tell, there is evidence that melatonin and vitamin D will help with maintaining hair and color, but I don't expect anthing too dramatic.  I think adequate blood levels of vitamin D are very important to delaying hair loss.
 
I still suspect it is a copper compound that will ultimately produce faster more dramatic results.  (Copper ATP, Copper Carnosine, etc).  I think I mentioned a while ago that high oral doses of MSM brought on gray hair many many years ago that reversed when I stopped the high MSM supplementation.  I suspect the MSM was liberating the copper from some compound.
 
Copper gluconate and ATP sodium can be used to make copper ATP so perhaps someone wants to try that.  ATP is right at the borderline of molecule size for topical absorption, though so copper-ATP is probably too big.  Might suggest copper-ATP as a phophatidyl serine liposome.
 
Zinc-Carnosine is already sold by LEF as a stomach remedy so perhaps this will increase interest in exploring uses for copper-carnosine.
 
The big question, though, is what will stimulate the body to replace lost melanocyte stem cells?  Once that is achieved a real reversal (not requiring constant application) could be achieved.  Perhaps the copper-carnosine compound would allow carnosine to remove AGEs which might be causing the stem cell mistakes that Bcl2 gene down regulation causes.
 
BTW, Bcl2 as it turns out is very copper depedent!
"Lower Bcl-2 levels were detected in the copper-deficient rat hearts"
 
I think all the herbs and vitamins that show effects will be found to be related to copper (affect copper metabolism or contain a form of copper).
 
In any case any type of reversal due to this is likely going to take 6 months - 1 year or possible more to wait for cellular turnover.
 
 

Posted By : brm - 1/16/2007 6:34 PM
Hi Zorba.

As to the advisability of copper topicals, check this out
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=37085&mode=full

Have you never got itching ot irritation or what?

Posted By : zorba990 - 1/16/2007 7:49 PM
No, in fact anyone can apply a supplemental ionic copper liquid to a patch of skin (test) and see that this is certainly false at the concentrations currently sold as
supplements. I've taken a handful of it and applied it all over my face with no bad reaction whatsoever. Perhaps this person is referring to a high concentration?

Posted By : JasonT - 1/16/2007 7:50 PM
Dennis James said...
One great though to remove grey hair would be to use the following nutrients:
 
 
    smhair   1. Pantothenic acid
        2. PABA
        3. Brewers yeast
 
Take the recommended dosage of the PABA and the pantothenic acid and take 8 of the brewers yeast. 
 
Take them all daily! Watch what happens to your roots in a couple of months.
 
Hope this works for you.
 
Let me know!
 
Dennis James
Life Extension Member
 
How much of each.

Posted By : brm - 1/17/2007 11:46 AM
Oh sorry, my calculus is wrong. That would be 0.01%, so way weaker a solution... Could I have any efficiency at such a low figure?

Posted By : brm - 1/17/2007 11:47 AM
OK Zorba. I have copper pidolate caps containing 2mg copper each. If I empty three of them into a 60ml minox bottle, I get a 1% solution. Is this the kind of concentration you're talking about? rolleyes

Posted By : zorba990 - 1/17/2007 3:14 PM
brm said...
OK Zorba. I have copper pidolate caps containing 2 mg copper each. If I empty three of them into a 60 ml minox bottle, I get a 1% solution. Is this the kind of concentration you're talking about? rolleyes
Ionic copper producers use an electrical process (I believe) to produce their product(s).  You would have to figure this out and duplicate it.  You could purchase one and send it to a lab for analysis to find out the concentration. 
 
 
Dissolving a compound will not likely produce the same result.
 
I'm not a chemist, and for all I know the 'ionic' copper buzzword is not truly what is contained in the liquids that are sold.  It might just be weak copper oxide or something else.

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 1/17/2007 3:14 PM
JLo grey hair pic:

http://www.hollywoodtuna.com/photo.php?id=jennifer_lopez_grey_hair_big&title=Jennifer%20Lopez%20Grey%20Hair%20Pictures

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 1/17/2007 3:16 PM
confused  
 
 
Forget hair dyes and elaborate henna conditioning. The easiest way to combat grey hair is by simply rubbing your nails together!
Before you dismiss this as sheer quackery, here’s Yoga expert S. Goswami on why rubbing nails together is an effective technique for reducing grey hair.
Expert advice – Yoga expert S. Goswami
“Nerve endings below your fingernails are directly connected to your hair roots. By rubbing your nails against one another, you help to improve the blood circulation in your scalp, which in turn reduces grey hair.”
Other than rubbing your nails together, here are other 5 Minute Fix-Its that are equally effective in controlling premature graying:
• When you get up in the morning, rub the area of your forehead closest to your hairline. This helps in removing any blocks in circulation in your scalp. Rub lightly for a few minutes. That’s all it takes!
• Yoga Asana: Kapalbhati
Sit comfortably in any meditative posture. Sit erect. Exhale through both nostrils, sucking in your abdomen.
Release your tummy quickly and immediately follow with another forceful exhalation. So the asana goes like this: contract tummy, exhale through nose (like blowing your nose).
Inhale passively and effortlessly.
Gradually increase the frequency to about 100 strokes/minute.
After the round take a deep breath and gradually exhale.
Benefits:
• Purifies the frontal portion of the brain (hence improves blood circulation and reduces grey hair)
• Cleans nasal passages
• Helps in combating asthma, diabetes, chronic bronchitis and nervous disorders

-Be careful with breathing exercises. - mod


Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 1/17/2007 3:32 PM
home remedies:

1. Amla or Indian gooseberry is a popular home remedy. If fresh amla are available , a paste of amla can made and applied to the hair. Dry amla can be ground into a powder, mixed with water and massaged into the hair. Otherwise amla hair oil can applied to the hair. Dried amla is also available for eating but the pouches are expensive - 200 g cost Rs 45 (about US$ 1)

2. Take black tea (without milk or sugar) and massage it on the roots of the hair. Leave it on the hair for an hour and then wash it away. This will coat the hair strand, hide the grey colour.

3.Massage the scalp with coconut oil (with lemon) or almond oil. Vegetable and essential oil also contain nutrients for slowing the greying of hair.

4. Processed foods and junk foods contain many preservatives and should be avoided. Fish and other seafood contain iodine which is required for melanin production. Also eat nuts and other food which contain copper.

5.Some people have used a mixture of blackstrap molasses, brewer's yeast and wheat germ to prevent formation of grey hair. However, blackstrap molasses may not be available in all countries.

6.Curry leaves are boiled in coconut oil and the mixture can be applied to the hair to prevent formation of white hair. Ribbed gourd should be soaked in coconut oil for 3 to 4 days and the mixture should be boiled. The oil produced should be massaged into the scalp.

Posted By : dLaertios - 1/18/2007 2:32 PM
Hi,
Zorba says that ionic copper and DMAE-H3 works topically maybe because of PABA. I wonder if ionic copper and PABA works as well, because it is easier for me to get PABA than DMAE-H3. Also I can add bigger quantity of PABA to the final solution.

Zorba what is the timeline that this solution gave you reversal? Do you apply this daily?

I guess will all have to experiment with topical solutions and to post our results so at the end some remedies for grey hair and unlucky guys like us will be availiable.

Zorba 's discovery is huge I think because it proved that grey hair caused from copper deficiency. All the other ingredients are critical for the absorption of copper. That is Paba, B5, vitamin C, zinc, B12.

My advice: add vitamin E to your regimen 1000 iu.

Posted By : chessman - 1/19/2007 5:50 PM
Just a follow up on my last post in which I spoke about the product Promel by Loreal. After my post I actually went to the Loreal web site, found a phone number for their corporate head quarters, and called. I was referred to their customer service center, which had the phone number 1-800-631-7358. I called them and asked for information about when the product would be on the market.

Their answer was interesting. They actually confirmed that the product was REAL. However they did not have the date upon which it would be released. They said that it had actually been developed by their Lorel division in France, who are the ones working out all those details. The girl I spoke with was very friendly and asked that if I should find out any additional information myself to please call and let them know. So apparently the news is TRUE, but France has the product and the details, not the US division, at least at the level I spoke with.

Posted By : chessman - 1/19/2007 5:51 PM
I just wanted to share this. Perhaps many of you have already head of this but I have been following it for about a year now. The company Loreal has come up with an 85% effective cure for gray hair. They kept is very quiet for a long time and after news crept out denied it for a long time. Anyway, here is a URL with information about their cure. It is going to be introduced around parts of Europe and the United States this year in 2007.

http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06/promel.html
http://www.bodyofwealth.com/entry/stay-young-forever-with-worlds-first-drug-to-reverse-gray-hair/http//www.2gohealth.com

I believe the product is being called Promel.

An interesting concept. Of course it will destroy their hair coloring sales along with everybody else's, but on the other hand they will have the patent on a product that will corner the market. Obviously who would want to purchase hair coloring when they can have a for real cure. So I guess the bottom line is that if you can corner the market they will make more money than ever even if it does kill their hair coloring business because at the same time they pick up everybody else's business also.

Posted By : Gaizz - 1/19/2007 5:59 PM
".........Copper is beneficial for graying and thinning hair......."

http://www.kornax.com/Liquid_Copper_Water.htm

Posted By : teenagegraygal - 1/19/2007 6:00 PM
HI ALL,

Test it

Posted By : AussieDavid - 1/19/2007 6:06 PM

I've just spent the last few hours going through all of the posts on this topic, trying to work out what's best to put in a topical solution that my compounding chemist will make up for me.

Based on what others have tried, this is what I have come up with for a TOPICAL solution:

(1) Ionic copper

(2) DMAE H3

(3) Pantothenic Acid

(4) Carnosine

(5) SOD

(6) B vitamins, vit D, C and E

(7) Tyrosine

(8) PABA

(9) Arginine

I also considered Bimatoprost, but there are 2 posts by 'zorba990' expressing some concerns with Bimatoprost. I also considered melatonin, but 'brm' experienced accelerated greying with topical melatonin, yet 'zorba990' has used it with no adverse effects. If it's an unknown, I'd rather leave it out for now. I don't know if my compounding chemist can get all of the above ingredients in a stable solution, but I'll speak to her on Monday and she what she can do. I will also take 'date imprinted' photographs so I have an accurate record of results (or lack thereof).

There was one thing mentioned on page 1 of this forum which we should keep an eye on for developments: Dihydroxyl-5,6-indole  It seems this is scientifically proven to reverse grey hair, but is not yet commercially available.

Also, here is a link to a website which basically summarizes the 3 different groups of approaches to reversing grey hair:

(1) Nutritional - Oral and topical

(2) Medical

(3) Cosmetic

Here's the link:  http://www.antiaging-wellness.com/Pages/Treatments/Hair/grey_hair.php


Posted By : AussieDavid - 1/19/2007 6:09 PM
I did a google search looking for a shampoo with omega 3 in it and this is what I found. Anyone tried it?  The advertisement says:

Rich in Vitamins E, B1, B3, B6, Omega-3 and rare oligoelements such as selenium, copper and zinc. Strengthens the hair from the root to the tips, reconstructs the hair fiber.

http://www.webvitamins.com/product.aspx?ID=22105

Contains

Water, Dissodium Cocoyl Glutamate(from coconut), Decyl Glucoside, Oleyl Cocamide(from coconut), Cocamidopropyl Betaine(from coconut), PEG-120 Methyl Glucose Dioleate(from sugar), Lawsonia inermis(Henna) Leaf Extract, Vegetable Protein Complex(hydrolized Corn, Wheat and Soy protein), Bertholletia excelsa(Brazil nut) Seed Oil, Carapa guianensis(Andiroba-crabwood)Seed Oil, Citric Acid, Dipterix odorata(Cumaru) Essential Oil, Aniba canelilla(Preciosa) Essential Oil, Phenoxyethanol and DMDM Hydantoin.

It sounds interesting because the vitamins and minerals are similar to what are referred to in this forum for reversing grey hair. Just wondering if this might be worthwhile using in addition to a topical solution. Any comments? Zorba? Up till recently I've been trying 'resthairation' shampoo and conditioner, but it's a total scam. I have gone back to using Alchemy shampoo/conditioner.


Posted By : brm - 1/19/2007 7:34 PM
Aussie David, making this list up is a good job. Thank you. The problem is: what quantities will you put in? As a starting point, we should reasonably take the nominal data we can collect from specific topical solutions. But, for PABA, we have no indication, do we? And what will be the vehicle solution? Your chemist might answer?

Posted By : AussieDavid - 1/22/2007 5:25 PM

Hi 'brm',

As for the specific quantities of the ingredients, I will have to discuss that with my chemist and go with what she recommends. When I briefly discussed the idea with her a few weeks ago, I remember her saying that there is a reference she has which determines the relative quantities of ingredients in compounding formulas. In the end, it will be left to her skills to create a formula that mixes ok. She has been one of the few people able to get my minoxidil solution stable and that was through experimentation, so I am confident that she has the skills to produce something good here as well. I'll get more specific details from her in respect to relative quantities once she has worked it out and I'll publish them here. I'm getting my hair cut in the next week, so I'll also publish my 'before' pics on 'fotothing' and put the link on here.

In relation to PABA, I'll have to discuss that with her. There is PABA already in the DMAE-H3. The list I made was simply my 'wish list' based on all of the posts made in this forum.


Posted By : hermes - 1/22/2007 5:50 PM
Aussie David,
I don't think any shampoo can do much help for gray hair. But I suggest you to try Reminex gray hair shampoo.It contains what you searching for in a shampoo. Emu oil is a good source of omega 3 & 6.

Posted By : brm - 1/22/2007 6:22 PM
None of us has greeted chessmann over his post about Loreal's hoped breakthrough. Thank you chessman, at least for this renewed hope you're giving us. I think I'll ring Loreal up here in Paris to try and know a little more. I even don't live far away from their headquarters north Paris. I wouldn''t be surprised if they were not half as talkative as the girl chessman had on the phone.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 1/23/2007 11:14 AM
'Promel' was discussed on page 10 of this forum. The general consensus was that it was a hoax. Google 'Promel' and you won't find any 'mainstream' information on it. Has something changed in relation to Promel?

Posted By : brm - 1/23/2007 3:53 PM
Hi Aussie. First of all, check out your PM box by logging in, then clicking any PM red icon (yours for instance), then click the "inbox". I have questions there for you.
Second, I agree there's no real serious background as yet behind Loreal's product. But since there's no product to scam over, what interest would they have to stake such claims? Swell their hair dye selling share? Quite improbable. As yet, there's only rumor about a possible rollout, but certainty about the study they're carrying out, successfully or not. And there's a new element: Loreal's public relation and marketing services seem no longer to deny the project. And this is encouraging since any real hoax could only damage their cred in the mid and long run.

Posted By : brm - 1/25/2007 10:46 AM
Hey Aussie, did you check out your PM inbox and read my message?

Posted By : greyboy - 1/26/2007 11:14 AM
loreal paris filed a patent for this product months before it was mentioned on the internet. the product is real its just a matter of when it will be released and how effective it is.

Posted By : gotsomegray - 1/29/2007 12:05 PM
Someone gave me another suggestion on the possible reversal of gray hair that seems ridiculous at first, but I'll pass it along regardless.  The suggestion was to get yourself upside down for a period time (15-20 minutes?) by whatever means so blood can rush to the head.  I don't know how long would be too long and what way is best, but it's another idea for anyone desperate enough to try it.  And yes, I am desperate enough to try it so I have started to lie backward off of my couch for 15-20 minutes while watching television each day.
 
 

Posted By : Niko - 1/29/2007 12:08 PM

L’Oreal, the French cosmetic giant, (who brought you the L-Taurine patent as a treatment for MPB ) has developed a drug called “Promel” that reportedly returns gray hair back to its natural color within 2-4 months.  It is apparently based upon addressing 2 genes that are related to the malfunctioning of the melanocytes.  

Rumor has it that it will be available within 3 months in Europe, no word yet on the costs.


Posted By : dang - 1/29/2007 12:30 PM
zorba - do you think copper peptides (ie. folligen) would have the same effect as ionic copper?

Posted By : zorba990 - 1/29/2007 4:24 PM
dang said...
zorba - do you think copper peptides (ie. folligen) would have the same effect as ionic copper?
It has been reported to have the same effect.  It might be worth a try - seems relatively inexensive and many people do use it for calming down scalp inflammation caused by minox.  It seems fairly highly concentrated, though and I would wonder about long term copper overload in using it with a penetrating lotion.
 

Posted By : reverse - 1/31/2007 1:18 PM
Ok, so where's all this information coming from regarding L'Oreal's "promeal"? I tried to get information months ago and couldn't get any. Does anyone have any reliable sources?  Available in Europe in 3 months?  Please tell me/us where you heard this.

Posted By : dLaertios - 1/31/2007 6:15 PM
It is possible that topical application of ionic or other form of copper to have a dye effect.
I was sceptical after I found this http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4173453.html .

"The copper sulfide generated within the hair follicles provides a more or less permanent coloration. More particularly, in the hair, free sulfur is slowly changed to hydrogen sulfide by the action of microorganisms in the scalp ...".

The meaning is that if we add a little quantity of sulfur instead of Paba to ionic copper and apply this topically to our scalp we will have a dye effect and our hair will start to color. Am I right?

Maybe the ionic copper alone reacts with other microorganisms and we have the copper sulfide or something else which dyes the roots of hairs gradually.

I also started to use topical colloidal copper and Paba to scalp for a week -daily and I think that this remedy works too but it 's too early to tell anything. I am curious if another one started to see differences to hair color after only one week of topical application of copper and Dmae-H3 or Paba or it is just a mind game.

Give a try to topical solutions maybe copper + sulfur do the trick although it will be just a dye effect.

Posted By : teenagegraygal - 2/1/2007 1:40 PM
It is easy to know whether the solution is giving dying effect or working internally. If the existing gray hair remains gray and if the root of the gray strand gradually turns to dark then it means the solution is working internally.

Posted By : dLaertios - 2/1/2007 4:32 PM
Teenagegraygal,
I don't think that it is so easy to know. The patent says that microorganisms inside the hair follicle make the whole procedure of dying.
Also I have read that Paba and sulfur are antagonistic. For the last week I apply topical colloidal copper + Paba every day. As I check thoroughly my side hair I definitely have less gray hair since I started to reverse them (9 months ago). Maybe the topical application of copper boosted my regimen reversal.
Right now I am curious what will happen after two or three months following my regimen.

Posted By : teenagegraygal - 2/2/2007 12:34 PM
Does anyone know the cause of convulsions? I have seen few people who get convulsions but to my surprise i noticed all of them have also got gray hair in their childhood. I don't think the vice versa is true as there are so many people (like me) who are suffering from this gray hair in their early teens though they have never got convulsions before. I always wondered that convulsions and gray hair has got very close relationship. I just wanted to put it across to u all as i thought it may give a clue in finding out the right medicine for gray hair.

Posted By : Vincentvangogo - 2/2/2007 4:42 PM
Teenagegreygal, I've not seen any connection with convulsions, but I read somewhere on the net that someone had noticed a connection between schizophrenia and premature greying (I've also seen this in a couple of people with the illness.) The theory was that schizophrenics might not be able to metabolize a certain vitamin (B2?) and that this led to another chemical being produced in their bodies that was close in structure to a hallucinogenic drug. I think the molecular structure of LSD is sometimes used to understand schizophrenia (the gene??) and there certainly seem to be a lot of similarities been schizophrenic episodes and people who are tripping/hallucinating, hence I thought there might be something in this theory.
 
 Another interesting thing was that they mentioned some schizophrenics improved by simply giving them mollasses every day, which I think contains this B vitamin and I  know that some people claim molasses has restored their hair to its original colour. 
As you must have guessed already I am not a scientist, but perhaps someone out there can make something of all this. 
 
- Could one of the drugs used to treat seizure disorders cause graying? - mod

Posted By : brm - 2/2/2007 10:51 PM
Hi dLaertios.You seem to be case n°2 of reversal after Zorba. Here are some questions for you.

1°) Would you please tll us what your exact regimen has been over the past nine months to obtain the reversal effect?

2°) You are currently using colloidal copper + PABA. Where do you get these ingredients from?

Thank you.

Posted By : dLaertios - 2/3/2007 2:30 PM
Hi, my results aren't as dramatic as Zorba's.

But my reversal is more than 10% for sure. Become more noticable after I started to apply the topical solution of colloidal copper and Paba.

1) My daily regimen now is
a) Blackstrap mollasses+acv+honey and 15 mg beta carotene in the morning
b) B+C supplement after lunch (1000 mg C, 50mg of each B5, PABA, Folacin, B12 and other of B complex)
c) E 1000 iu after dinner.
2)
I apply castor oil daily
and I make the colloidal (if you search the net you can find instruction how to make or to buy a device) with regular water after I have drop the content of a Paba 550 mg tablet in there.

If I had to chooce between one supplement and one topical I would go for the
super B+C and colloidal copper with Paba.
Good luck (I need it too).

Posted By : StarGazer - 2/4/2007 9:01 PM
Promel is a proven Internet hoax. L'Oreal is working anti-greying research and has been for some time, but they are not developing a drug called Promel, and they are not close to any such product that will be commercialized.

Any other reports are bull s___.

Someone made up a hoax about Promel, then submitted it to news feeds, and it was picked up by some websites in order to gain additional traffic.

I'm not sure if it was this board or another board that posted responses from L'Oreal of France in which the reps said that there is no real proposed pill called Promel or any other such pill.

If L'Oreal did ever come out with such a product, it would probably be a lotion or something added to the shampoo, and not a pill.

A pill would require clinical trials in all likelihood, which would mean many many years down the road for approval - even if there was such a pill in development.

Posted By : StarGazer - 2/4/2007 9:02 PM
Thank you for visiting L'Oréal Paris on the Web.

Recently, L'Oréal's scientists presented significant new research about what makes hair grow curly or straight, and about why hair turns gray. It is possible that, at some point in the future, these discoveries may lead to a pill that controls hair shape or color. However, such a pill is not available at this time.

We hope this information is helpful.

Sincerely,
Cynthia Bosse
Consumer Affairs Advisor
Ref # 3529851

Now let's put the Promel b.s. to rest once and for all. There is no such drug about to be available.

Posted By : flowergirl - 2/10/2007 2:34 PM
aussiedavid have you been able to get a formula from your chemist yet?? and have you had any results? i see thru this post you had a few hairs reverse. has there been any greater reversal than that yet?

and zorba, you say that you think the dmae-h3 and the copper were the key ingredients, but to achieve a reversal, do you think you should add to that ?? you mention melatonin and vit d and sodzyme/glisodin. i'm not much of a chemist, so i'm trying with the dmae-h3 and ionic copper, but i wanna make sure im not wasting time if i need other ingredients to facilitate the efficacy of the dmae-h3 and ionic copper.

i know you've posted these things before, but as you say, your research and formula is ongoing, so i'd like to know where you're at with it, if you wanna share!

thanx to everyone for sharing all their info!!

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 2/10/2007 6:05 PM
Hey Zorba!
 
Thanks for all the info you've provided. You have not mentioned the dermaroller in a while.
 
Are you still using it? How useful is it? Which one did you get?
 
The Dermarollers appear to have a wide range of prices (is it a trademarked name?), so it is hard to know which one to get.
 
Thanks,
StinkyJoe
yeah

Posted By : zorba990 - 2/10/2007 8:03 PM
No, not really (dermaroller). The main problem with it is it bends the hair shafts no matter how careful I was). This makes it dificult to style thick hair.  I also have doubts about long term puncturing of the skin causing scarring even though
the creators say this won't happen due to the small size of the needles being used.

I think most topical forumulas can go right down the hair shaft no problem. If you look at recent evidence on stem cell stimulation by vitamin d, I'd say this is a good bet to add (I'm puting in enough for 1200 IU for each topical dose). I didn't notice anything from carnosine so I'm betting N-Acetyl-carnosine would work better (its horrendously expensive though).  Didn't notice anything from histidine but for sulfur intolerance people it might be crucial since 6 histidines are needed during melanin production and histidine is low in most cooked diets.

Sonic blending with phosphatidylserine might be an interesting next step... (looking for bulk liquid supplier now) as opposed to the usual PC used in liposomes. I think PS has special role in stem cell production but no definitive proof yet.

Post Edited (zorba990) : 2/10/2007 6:47:36 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : JRL - 2/11/2007 4:16 PM
Zorba,

I'm a new member, and after reading through the old posts I have been impressed by your knowledge and results and believe I want to try out your topical application for myself. The most recent post citing your recipe states that it is:

1 dropper DMAE-H3
1 capful ionic copper
1T arginine
1T carnosine

You also mention is a past posts that you apply your topical "straight" and that you just mix it up "on the fly."

My questions:

- Are the arginine and carnosine in powder form? And if not where can I find liquid forms?

- How do you mix up the ingredients? If I understand "straight" as not using any sort of medium for the mixing of ingredients you would end up with a very small amount of product for application to a whole head of hair.

- In this post you seem to infer that carnosine is not showing results, so I guess you are dropping that from you topical?

Sorry I'm so ignorant, but it's better to ask and look dumb once than to be dumb all of your life.

Post Edited (JRL) : 2/11/2007 6:23:27 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : flowergirl - 2/11/2007 4:16 PM
zorba, how often are you applying your formula? and do u put it on at nite?? are u stil using melatonin? and the vit d ur adding, what form are you using?? do u add it to a liquid, or just use the ionic copper as the liquid base?

& do you think msm is a no-no??

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 2/11/2007 4:17 PM
Guys, check these out:
 
 
 
 
 

Posted By : AussieDavid - 2/11/2007 4:24 PM

Hi flowergirl,

No formula as yet. Apparently getting everything I want into a stable solution is near impossible. Will post here when I have any more information.

I had found a few hairs last year that had dark roots and grey tips. They must have just been 'one off's' since I don't think I have noticeable results with the supplement regime I have been following. All kinda disappointing really. I'm hoping the topical solution will make a difference.


Posted By : zorba990 - 2/11/2007 9:03 PM
flowergirl said...
zorba, how often are you applying your formula? and do u put it on at nite?? are u stil using melatonin? and the vit d ur adding, what form are you using?? do u add it to a liquid, or just use the ionic copper as the liquid base?

& do you think msm is a no-no??
Applying most every day.  Didn't notice anything positive from MSM in the topical formula and based on previous experience I would avoid it for gray hair but might use it for thinning without graying.
 
 

Posted By : dang - 2/11/2007 9:05 PM
"Guys, check these out:

Milanitin : http://www.milanitin.com/index.htm


MELATAB : http://melatab.com/index.html"



these both look interesting, although the websites are quite amateurish and the products are pretty expensive, relatively speaking. anywhere we can find feedback on these two? are they new? i'm not opposed to taking a small risk and trying something out if it's only money to lose, but i'd like to make sure that they're not total scams before i send money away, you know ...

Posted By : AussieDavid - 2/12/2007 11:42 AM
I have tried to email Milanitin (via their website) and find out more about their product and what scientific evidence they have to back the claims they make. Every time I select 'submit' I get an internet explorer 'error' page. I also see the website has a 2006 copyright, so it seems they are new. Can't find anything good or bad about the product using google.

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 2/12/2007 11:45 AM
Redneck Rivera said...
Guys, check these out:
 
 
Something smells fishy here...
 
milanitin.com 
Domain created: 2007-01-06
Registered with godaddy.com
Registrant in Germany
Credit card processor: CCNow
Homeopathic
$95
60-day treatment plan. (One-time use?)
Money-back guarantee after 60 days
 
melatab.com 
Domain created: 2006-12-29
Registered with godaddy.com
registrant in Scotland 
Credit card processor: CCNow
Traditional Greek herbal blend.
$230 per month.
Money-back guarantee after 90 days
 

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 2/12/2007 11:45 AM
dang, I agree...I liked their 100% guarantee though one can promise anything to get your money...
interesting, Milanitin mentions the treatment period of 60 days and "Unsatisfactory results after following instructions for 60 days automatically qualify you for a complete refund with no questions asked"....hmm...very specific if you know what I mean... anyway, here is the composition for Milanitin:


Ingredient Name Dilution
Verat alb D30+100C
Thuja D2+20C
Antim crud D10+100C
Theridion D10+100C
Ferr met D10+100C
Phosphorus D10+100C
Sulphur D10+100C

any feedback on the ingredients?

Posted By : hermes - 2/12/2007 1:56 PM

milanitin and melatab are spam, but there are some homeopathic remedies for gray hair with acid phos, lycopodium,Thyroidin, and topical use of a plant named Pilocarpus jaborandi.

 


Posted By : flowergirl - 2/12/2007 3:23 PM
thanx 4 answerin aussie n zorba.

i know i keep asking, but am really trying to get clear without wasting time. zorba, what form of vit d are u using?? and are u still using melatonin topically??

keep the faith aussie, seems like the topical solution is the answer.

do you think it would be enough to just use the dmae-h3 and the ionic copper alone as a topical???

and if not, wot are the prime ingredients???

this is the last time im gonna ask, i promise!!

Posted By : gotsomegray - 2/12/2007 5:25 PM

For anyone wanting to try the Milanitin or Melatab, be sure to pay by credit card.  I'm definitely willing to try with the money back guarantee.  The only thing I worry about is the company not coming through with the guarantee.  If you pay by credit card you can charge the company back through a credit dispute whether they like it or not.  The time limitation is 90 days on that so I'm more willing to try the Milanitin since it gives a 60-day time frame.  Also, I am big fan of homeopathics.

 


Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 2/13/2007 12:09 PM
gotsomegray, please let us know Milanitin's email address ( from the order confirmation email) and when you'll get the package
GOOD LUCK! :)

Posted By : cdkona - 2/15/2007 2:07 PM
I just ordered DMAE H3 for a topical application along with ionic copper. I have read that it stinks. How soon after application can the hair be washed/rinsed? Do these two need to be mixed or applied separately? I am going to try one side of my head as a control for oral suppliments. I will let you know.

Posted By : UltraGrayMan - 2/15/2007 2:46 PM
I am a new member on this forum. I have a lot of gray hair on my scalp. I just wanted to find out from those very experienced member out there, what type of vitamin, mineral or simply any medication that when taken orally has been proven it has reversed gray hair to any other color, lets say brown or black color hair.

Thank You & Best Regards rolleyes

Posted By : lad - 2/15/2007 2:49 PM
It seems like the "escape clause" of both the pricey pill cures mentioned here is that they are for treating "premature grey hair."
 
I mean, if you are already 40-50 something, can you expect any greying to truely be "premature?" confused

Posted By : zorba990 - 2/15/2007 6:31 PM
cdkona said...
I just ordered DMAE H3 for a topical application along with ionic copper. I have read that it stinks. How soon after application can the hair be washed/rinsed? Do these two need to be mixed or applied separately? I am going to try one side of my head as a control for oral suppliments. I will let you know.
BTW I declare 'prior art' on DMAE-H3 + copper for treating gray hair so that no one will be able to patent it and ruin the fun  LOL   ; )
 
 

Posted By : flowergirl - 2/15/2007 8:37 PM
"BTW I declare 'prior art' on DMAE-H3 + copper for treating gray hair so that no one will be able to patent it and ruin the fun LOL ; )"

u betta patent it urself zorba!! u seem to have got it down!

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 2/15/2007 9:54 PM
zorba, do you think a copper product (Folligen) from Skin Biology is ionic and would it work with DMAE-H3 in the same way?


Posted By : zorba990 - 2/16/2007 11:46 AM
Redneck Rivera said...
zorba, do you think a copper product (Folligen) from Skin Biology is ionic and would it work with DMAE-H3 in the same way?

Its a peptide product.  So, no its not ionic.  It might work with DMAE-H3 the same way.  PABA seems to help with distribution of melanin.
 
People might want to start differentiating between gray hair which is a partial malfunction of the melanocytes and white hair which is complete (even if temporary) dysfunction.  It may be much more difficult reverse the condition once the hair is white.
 
 
 


Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 2/16/2007 9:59 PM
Thank you, zorba!!!

I am almost done with my Folligen bottle and I need to purchase another copper product...what would you suggest for the best results: to continue with Folligen or to purchase ionic copper?

Interesting about gray hair vs white hair...where did you find this information?

Posted By : Vincentvangogo - 2/18/2007 3:25 PM
Zorba, I am a bit confused about the difference between ionic and colloidal copper. When I've Googled the two, the makers of each seem to claim their product is superior to the other, any thoughts? Also I'm a bit worried about your white hair/grey hair thoughts, where mine have changed colour its from brown straight to white, I don't think I've ever seen a grey one, is all hope lost?

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 2/19/2007 11:36 AM

COPYRIGHT 2004 Financial Times Ltd.

(From Japan Corporate News Network)

Byline: Aki Tsukioka-Staff Writer, newsroom@japancorp.net

"Japanese leading cosmetic company Shiseido announced on July 23 that its research group has discovered a unique property of an extract from hops in collaboration with Kirin Brewery . . .
Detailed research results will be co-presented by the two companies at the 51st Annual Meeting of the Japanese Society of Pharmacognosy held in September."

Copyright : 2004 Japan Corporate News Network. All rights reserved.

COPYRIGHT 2004 Financial Times Ltd.


Posted By : cdkona - 2/19/2007 12:42 PM
I know this is a gray hair forum, but some have mentioned hair loss supplements as part of thier routine. I was able to reverse hair loss completely using saw palmetto (pill) and nizoral (ketokozanole) daily. I will footnote that I only had the very beginning stages of hair loss (<5%) but I tracked it closely and the fine hairs slowly changed back to normal over 2-3 years (and counting). I don't want to get hopes up as it was very early stages for me, but if you want to save on Propecia or whatever, this was an easy, two step solution that can be found at any Wal-mart.

Posted By : brm - 2/19/2007 4:58 PM
Has this product ever been discussed here?

http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/graying.php

Lipoxidil has a very disputable reputation on hairloss sites but maybe...

As to the gray/white pb, I don't believe it to be relevant. Hair pigmentation decreases as the activity of melanocytes decreases then turns white and unpigmented when it is shut down. I can"t imagine any other route...?...

Posted By : dLaertios - 2/20/2007 4:03 PM
I am interesting of adding and another supplement to my regimen.  I am between TOKI COLOR (http://www.lanelabs.com) and RECOULEUR (www.recouleur.com). My only concern is about the ascorbic acid if it is from natural source or synthetic.
Emailed recouleur twice but there was no response. Also emailed lanelabs yesterday but no response either.  Instead melatab replied to a question very soon (http://www.melatab.com/).
If vitamin C is from natural source I would go for recouleur, but I am thinking very seriously to give a try to melatab.

Posted By : JRL - 2/20/2007 5:25 PM
Zorba,

about a week ago I made a post asking about your topical and how you mixed it (medium used, etc.). I'd really appreciate it if you could let us know how you do it. I'm starting a vitamin regimen and would really like to add your topical (at least DMAE-H3 and copper) to my routine. I'm new here but I plan to stick to this project and keep you all posted on how it goes.

Thanks

Posted By : reverse - 2/21/2007 1:14 PM
Don't waste your money on Recouleur. I tried it and it didn't work. I also wasted my money on Melancor too. None of these products work. Just thought I'd save you the disappointment and some money.

Posted By : cdkona - 2/21/2007 6:02 PM
I just tried the ionic copper and DMAE H3 topically. I applied the copper first (using a plastic syringe) and a few minutes later used the dropper provided to apply the DMAE H3, lightly rubbing each in. the areas where I applied the DMAE over the copper, dried and turned white (ironically turning my hair gray!!). It wipes off easily once dry and doesn't smell bad at all, but I was worndering if this was normal?

Posted By : dLaertios - 2/22/2007 10:48 AM

reverse,

thank you for the information about recouleur.

I see some reversal to my hair after 10 months and I believe that it is from B complex and C so that is the reason that I would like to try recouleur or toki color. The procedure is slow.

Also I saw a hair with white end and colored root. I didn't believe that such a think was possible although I have heard it from Aussie too. 

A reversal from supplement is possible but it takes time (maybe 2 years) that 's my estimation. 


Posted By : zorba990 - 2/22/2007 4:41 PM
JRL said...
Zorba,

about a week ago I made a post asking about your topical and how you mixed it (medium used, etc.). I'd really appreciate it if you could let us know how you do it. I'm starting a vitamin regimen and would really like to add your topical (at least DMAE-H3 and copper) to my routine. I'm new here but I plan to stick to this project and keep you all posted on how it goes.

Thanks
Usually an amount of water is the base of everything so that they can all dissolve.  Tyrosine is not water soluble but n-acetyl-tyrosine is (I don't use it though).  It's really individualized as it depends on the pH and concentrations that will work for you and your skin.

Posted By : zorba990 - 2/22/2007 4:42 PM
cdkona said...
I just tried the ionic copper and DMAE H3 topically. I applied the copper first (using a plastic syringe) and a few minutes later used the dropper provided to apply the DMAE H3, lightly rubbing each in. the areas where I applied the DMAE over the copper, dried and turned white (ironically turning my hair gray!!). It wipes off easily once dry and doesn't smell bad at all, but I was worndering if this was normal?
I'm not sure why you are aplying them seperately but to each his own I guess.  Sounds like the concentration was pretty high if the salt (DMAE-H3) came out of solution so strongly.
 
If you cannot smell DMAE-H3 then I would guess you have a zinc deficiency.  It has a very strong fish like odor.   This is one of the reasons why each person should individualize their formula based on how their body responds and what is going on with the rest of their nutrition program.  Just got sonification equipment so I will be adding liposomes I think.  This may make a difference -- not sure yet ---  might not get it it for a few weeks though ---
 
 

Posted By : flowergirl - 2/22/2007 9:59 PM
am currently using 1 1/2 dropper of twinlab dmae h3 mixed with a capful of ionic copper every nite. the dmae h3 smells but once its in the copper and on the hair i can't smell it really. i am taking zinc anyway as my kinesiologist advised me.

as i am in the UK at present and not back in the US for a while, it is easier for me to get GH3. is this an adequate substitute for the dmae h3 or should i send for some more dmae h3?

as for quantities, once the dmae h3 is in the ionic copper, the solution is pretty much a clear liquid. is this enough dmae h3?

as melatonin is banned in the UK and hard for me to get hold of here, is it essential to the mix?

will keep you all informed as to my progress. am going to add vitamin d to my mix.

Posted By : longliver - 2/25/2007 2:36 PM
  Obviously I'm new to this site. I clicked on your icon b/c I thought someone was going to tell some nifty treatment to reverse greying. I'm sooo glad that I found this site. I've been into healthy life extension since I was a teen. I'm now 35 and plan on looking, and feeling 35(if not younger) for as long as I'm on this planet. Hey, I would appreciate it if someone could guide me to the Reverse Grey Hair spot. I'm sure it's ridiculously easy....but like I said, I'm new.

Posted By : hermes - 2/25/2007 2:36 PM
 
"Stemcelex" is a new hair-growth product that claims stem cell treatment for baldness: http://stemcelex.com
 
and this is link to its patent that I have already posted as a seperate topic in lef forum:
 
and they claim as well that in the test group:
 
"restoration of original hair colour was observed within four to six weeks in almost all subjects whose hair was silver white or grey, including subjects over 60 years of age."
 
 
 

Posted By : brm - 2/25/2007 2:46 PM
I join flowergirl's query about the dilemma between GH3 (banned in the US) and its soft form DMAE-H3. Would the real thing not be more advisable and if so, by which online supplier?
I keep on warning against melatonin. In a UK study (dated 1980 and available in 'journal of dernatology" if I remember correctly), melatonin is proved to rather inhibit than enhance melanin production in the hair follicle. I personally tried topical melatonin (3/1000) for a 3 month period last year and have observed an acceleration of my graying process.

Posted By : zorba990 - 2/26/2007 3:01 PM
brm said...
 I personally tried topical melatonin (3/1000) for a 3 month period last year and have observed an acceleration of my graying process.
Don't know why this would be true...here is something to the contrary.
 
 
 

Posted By : JRL - 2/26/2007 3:08 PM
Zorba,

Thanks a lot for the reply. I'm going to try mixing up the topical and start applying it. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Posted By : flowergirl - 2/26/2007 7:07 PM
"Don't know why this would be true...here is something to the contrary.

http://www.grouppekurosawa.com/blog/2005/03/regrow-hair-naturally-while-changing.htm "

this aritcle was written 2 years ago. he said he was gonna try it on his beard and post the results. did he ever post the results??

as i'm in the UK at the moment, i cant get hold of any melatonin in capsule form and as it seemed to have no positive efects on brm, i'm happy to leave it out for now. i have 3 bottles of DMAE H3. when i run out of these, i'll move onto the GH3 and see which one is more powerful.

Posted By : brm - 2/27/2007 6:32 PM
I keep on refering to
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v74/n1/abs/5616101a.html

I read thru the entire study which I downloaded from The Journal of Dermatology's site. I found it quite serious and convincing though dating 1980 and dealing only with in vitro samples having retained their ability to create melanin. This only adds to my personal conclusion about topical melatonin which I tried with no positive result, at best. If you tried melatonin, Zorba, i can only imagine that it did not counteract the positive effect of the other ingredients you 've been using and which I advise all to primarily focus on, given the good and enjoyable results you seem to encounter...unless you can document the specific effects ot topical melatonin on its own, which I think is not the case (?). Incidentally, you don't seem to advise real GH3 rather than DMAE-H3. Can you tell us more about this?
Thank you.

Posted By : zorba990 - 2/28/2007 11:57 AM
brm said...
I keep on refering to
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v74/n1/abs/5616101a.html

I read thru the entire study which I downloaded from The Journal of Dermatology's site. I found it quite serious and convincing though dating 1980 and dealing only with in vitro samples having retained their ability to create melanin. This only adds to my personal conclusion about topical melatonin which I tried with no positive result, at best. If you tried melatonin, Zorba, i can only imagine that it did not counteract the positive effect of the other ingredients you 've been using and which I advise all to primarily focus on, given the good and enjoyable results you seem to encounter...unless you can document the specific effects ot topical melatonin on its own, which I think is not the case (?). Incidentally, you don't seem to advise real GH3 rather than DMAE-H3. Can you tell us more about this?
Thank you.
I don't find the study all that noteworthy as it was done with hair in a test tube. It is interesting though.  Melatonin has, perhaps, a role in degrading melanin. Perhaps one that is useful to avoid hyperpigmentation or melanoma.
 
I guess someone will just have to do a test on live animals painting it on their coats - meanwhile I'm not going to stop using it.  I have never used GH3 and have
no experience with it.  I'm using DMAE-H3 for the paba and DMAE effects.  BTW
DMAE also has pigment removal effects - in fact many people use it for just that purpose (to get rid of age spots).  I put in DMAE-H3 based on many reports that people with vitiligo were using it with success.  Also, my experience with using it orally is that, like the complete Chinese herbal forumula, I could easily see that it was causing hair darkening.  Net effect is what I am looking for and DMAE-H3, ionic copper, and Chinese herbals all cause hair darkening when taken orally.
 
I imagine that resveratrol might be interesting to add, but so far I have avoided
it and green tea since they both might have strong staining effects. 
 
Melatonin reduces cortisol and acts as an a powerful antioxidant.  Psoralens used to treat vitiligo result in increased melatonin levels.  It may be that reducing oxidation affects pigmentation in the short run because the pigmentation reaction requires an oxidative pathway.  So, again, a person needs to individualize their forumla for their biochemistry. And this will likely change over time. 
 
Sovetre E, Salvati E, Belugou JL
5-Methoxypsolaren increases the plasma melatonin levels in humans.
J Invest Dermatol 1987;89:152-5
 
But there is a theory that melatonin might actually be causal in vitiligo. I don't find it very compelling though, because it incorrectly assumes melatonin is oxidative which is incorrect.  There are lots of theories.
 
 

Posted By : brm - 3/1/2007 11:48 AM
Zorba, you've never mentioned (or have you?...) the exact amount of DMAE-H3 you 've been taking or I missed it. What is it? I had also forgotten that you were taking chinese herbs. I do: Ho shou wou twice a day for the past 7 months, with no result. i've been taking green tea for more than a year too (3 caps a day, around 600 or 700 mg i think altogether) and no result...

I believe oral melatonin may have positive effect though I noticed some years ago a drowsiness effect on getting up in the morning. I gave up.

Posted By : dLaertios - 3/1/2007 2:28 PM
Possible contribution of mercury dental fillings to grey hair.

http://www.doewatch.com/gws.html  

The reduction of the clearance of toxic metals due to GSH is easily observed in the population as it plays a direct role in why hair turns gray. Grey hair is caused principally by rising levels of Hg or mercury in the body being incorporated into the hair follicles causing the loss of pigment from the higher cellular ROS problems. Grey hair has higher levels of mercury in it than pigmented hair strands and the effect helps to pull some mercury from tissues. Grey hair for many people begins in areas of the chin and face, where the highest concentrations of mercury tend to accumulate in tissues from mercury dental fillings. With increasing age the gray hair can affect most of the head's hair. This is a common example of the effects of reduced GSH and SOD enzymes that happens with age and rise of internal retention of PCB, pesticides, HF, and Hg that act to damage GSH and SOD production.

Posted By : drjrgates - 3/2/2007 11:40 AM
Greetings,

It's been quite some since the Grey Hair issue has been discussed. Has anyone discovered further solutions to this problem? Also...whatever happend to "Amber" to claimed to have patented an inexpensive product that "worked"?

Thanks

Posted By : brm - 3/5/2007 12:03 PM
Hello guy.

To date, dLaertios and Zorba are the only trustworthy "guideline resources" we're offered. Check out their posts. (Amber must be a full head of grey hair by now).

Posted By : brm - 3/8/2007 11:51 AM
A question that has never really been discussed here:

Does a hair become grey from the tip or from the root?
Well, obviously, we tend to answer "from the root". Is this that obvious? I've read some opinions contrary to it and it seems that both theories circulate. We could imagine indeed that the little melanin produced is projected from the root to the stem (the dead cells part) until the time when not enough melanin is produced anylonger to permit a uniform coating up to the tip. Why am I discussing this point? For a good reason: I have collected two hairs in the past days that are pigmented at the root and white at the tip. Being of a leery nature and not quick to hearten myself at the first sign, I am just wondering if those strands are getting black or white...

Posted By : august - 3/8/2007 12:47 PM
Ok - the new LEF magazine interviews John Abdo. In his supplememt list, he states that he takes Fo Ti to keep hair from going gray. If he's been teaching fitness for over 35 years, he is likely near or over 50 - no gray hair at all in photos.  Has anyone tried Fo Ti ?

Posted By : brm - 3/9/2007 11:27 AM
I have been taking ho shou wouh (whose brand name is fo ti) for the past 8 months with no result. I have recently increased my dosage though. The chinese girl that sells me the stuff told me that no improvement could be expected before the year mark since the newly pigmented hair needs the white one to be naturally shed first. Which I doubt a lot... Since the greying process doesn't imply shedding, why would repigmentation? But that speech binds me as a customer for the coming year or so...

Posted By : AussieDavid - 3/9/2007 11:35 AM

8th March 2007

Today I started applying a topical copper solution to my grey hair.

My before pics are here:

http://www.fotothing.com/AussieDavid/

I will post more pics if/when I notice any changes.

I had the solution made by a compounding chemist.

I have a 100ml bottle which has the following ingredients:

20mg copper
DMAE H3
PABA
Vitamin E
Lavender
Propylene Glycol

The lavender makes it smell good, and the solution is easy to apply. I am going to apply morning and evening and gently rub it in.

It is difficult to source ionic copper here in Australia, so we ended up using 10 copper caps from my Twinlab bottle (10 caps = 20mg copper).

http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00119.html

I am not sure if this copper will work. Also, the caps have a green dye in them, so my solution is also green, but it doesn't make my scalp or hair green when I apply it. I would really appreciate anyone passing on details of their source of ionic copper. I have googled and found this product:

http://www.essense-of-life.com/info/copper.htm

The solution I have started using is really compromise until I can source some good ionic copper. Unfortunately here in Australia we just don't have access to the same products that are available in the USA. I travel to LA frequently, so if anyone can give me details of a reliable source, I will order some and collect it in LA. As far as the PABA goes, we simply used some of the Twinlab PABA caps that I purchased from LEF.

The DMAE H3 was purchased from here:

http://www.vitaminexpress.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/19/products_id/285

There are many suppliers out there, but these guys had the most reasonable postage costs to Australia.

My current vitamin/supplement regime is as follows:

LEF Mix Tabs (9/day, has 1mg of copper)

He Shou Wu (800 mg/day - The brand is 'ActiveHerb - Hairvive'. I don't think this is the best brand. Does anyone have a good 'Fo-Ti' supplier?)

SODzyme with Glysodin (LEF)

Liquid Cats Claw (5 ml/day)

Mitochondrial Energy Optomizer (LEF)

Zinc Picolinate (Only just recently started zinc supplementation again)

CoQ10 (LEF)

Grapeseed Extract with Resveratrol (LEF)

Advance Natural Prostate Formula (LEF)

Chrysin 500mg (Compounding Chemist)

Super EPA/DHA (LEF)

1/2 Proscar/day (for DHT suppression)

DMAE H3 (1ml/day)

Trans-d-tropin

Up until a few weeks ago, I was also taking tyrosine. I have stopped because I believe it was giving me freckles. I was also taking 'Super Miraforte', but have also stopped that.

I will update the forum if I have any success with the topical solution.

 

 

 


Posted By : brm - 3/9/2007 1:20 PM
Hello Aussiedavid. Good to hear from you again as it seems you were actively involved in some new experiment. Your photos are a nice job. In fact, you don't really look grey but rather a pale blond head of hair. As to copper, Zorba advocates ionic copper where others on other hair related sites rather advise colloidal copper or copper peptides. I didn't want to take useless risks and opted out for folligen. I apply 2ml of it everyday before bedtime and will keep you all posted as to any progress. about he shou wou, I get mine in its raw form, ground by the local chinese girl that sells it in Paris. Maybe you can find such a store in Sydney or Melbourne or in any big city your job will fly you to. But so far, so bad, I mean, no result.
Like you, I have noticed 2 strands grey at the tip and dark at the base. But yesterday night, I found as well the opposite case: 2 other strands grey at the root and dark at the tip. So, whatever the greying mechanism is, 2 of these 4 strands (whichever group) must be going under a repigmentation process... Wishful thinking isn't it...

Posted By : gotsomegray - 3/9/2007 2:45 PM
brm said...
I have been taking ho shou wouh (whose brand name is fo ti) for the past 8 months with no result. I have recently increased my dosage though. The chinese girl that sells me the stuff told me that no improvement could be expected before the year mark since the newly pigmented hair needs the white one to be naturally shed first. Which I doubt a lot... Since the greying process doesn't imply shedding, why would repigmentation? But that speech binds me as a customer for the coming year or so...
brm,
 
That make actually make sense.  I think what she is saying is that any individual hair doesn't re-color itself.  Since every hair on the head is shedded and replaced (except when balding or thinning) within 2 to 7 years, she may mean that all of your gray hair gets shed while the replacement hairs come in with pigmentation.  In that case, it would take at least a year to see some difference. 
 
For those of you wanting to hear about my experience with milanitin, I haven't started yet and probably won't for a couple of months.  As much as I am excited to try it, I want to keep to my current supplements without adding anything else, so I know what it is that works if I get some reversal.
 
 

Posted By : dLaertios - 3/9/2007 3:37 PM
Good luck to all of you.
Aussie nice job with your photos.
Colloidal copper + Paba will work I think the same as Zorba described. I remember his phrase :" I see less and less grey hair". The same goes with me.
My only wish is this method could work faster but at least we have something in our hands.
The cost is minimal:
90 tablets of 550mg Paba (3 month supply) 21 euros and to make a device for colloidal I payed about maybe 35 euros I don't really remember. You need an ac to dc converter, a machine that makes bubbles for aquarium, and copper electrodes (I took a copper stick with 1 cm diameter - 15 euros- and made the electrodes of it).
I don't believe that you need something else for topical.
If I had to experiment with something else would be that patent with copper and sulphur. I gave a link to my previous posts. It says that has a dye effect but maybe it works faster than Paba and maybe copper + Paba has a dye effect too. Check that post again.
Don't be lazy try that method and you will see the difference in less than a month!!!
Amazing is't it?
And all these thanks to pioneer Zorba and his kindness to share it.
Also I want to add that I have still a head full of grey hair and I dye it (more stress to it and maybe delays the process of reversal especially as I dye it every week). But as I look between dyes at my roots many hairs have reversed I think more than 10% of pure white hairs - not grey- reversed.
At first I was very optimist I believed that I would have a full reversal in about 3 months but the process isn't so fast.
I hope I will be able to achieve a full reversal too and not the process to stop and no more hairs to reverse.
Try to experiment too and not just start to ask how because I also experiment with the method and also I apply it for only one and a half month.
Make your colloidal after you have resolve a tablet of Paba in there and you need either a bubble machine for aquarium or maybe a little mixer so as the Paba will be able to resolve in the water.
My current supplement regimen:
I added Pantothenic acid 550mg 3 days ago so
15 mg beta carotene in morning
super B+C and pantothenic acid 550mg after lunch
1000iu E after dinner.
P.S.
I know that some of you started to try your own topicals it would be nice to give feedback.

Posted By : Kier - 3/9/2007 6:31 PM

Just For Men (haircoloring) - $7/mo.   Can't beat it!!!

That's why so much money goes into hair loss instead of hair greying.
 
Cheers,
Kier
Jacksonville, FL, USA

Posted By : august - 3/9/2007 8:03 PM
Yes, my problem with gray hair is not the color (easily covered with dye) but the texture.  Wirey, thin, stick straight up in the air, etc.  If something could prevent gray hair from losing it's quality I might even enjoy the white.

Posted By : brm - 3/9/2007 8:06 PM
Hi dlaertios. I am completely unable to build this machine you're talking about. Can you share a photo of this outfit you've made? How can you be sure that the copper solution you get is proper colloidal copper? How do you get rid of filling particles that melt from the paba tablets you throw in?
Gotsomegray, if this route is correct (shedding needed), how come I found mixed colored strands, some grey and dark and others dark and grey from root to tip? It seems to be the proof that the hair doesn't need to be shed to get pigmented again?...

Posted By : flowergirl - 3/9/2007 9:39 PM
thats great aussie. thanks for sharing. im currently in th UK and I got my ionic copper from a great company here that my kinesiologist uses, and is also stocked at the nutricentre here, the company is called metabolics. i dont know if they have a website, but their number is tel: +44 1380 812799. they may have a sister company in australia as i think thorne does, so its worth a try!

im currently applying the twinlab dmae - h3 and ionic copper and vit D3 every nite, for the past i think 3 weeks.

i used the shen min tablets for about 5/6 mths last year but saw no change - they have he shu wu in them.

when i first noticed grey i took pure he shu wu tonic from the herbal suppliers and i saw reversal - as in dark roots on the white hairs, but i found the herb too strong for me and i stopped. zorba said its best to use the chinese formula rahter than just the he shu wu on its own. anyone got anything to say on this?

Posted By : brm - 3/11/2007 9:10 PM
Hi Flowergal.

The real chinese stuff IS he shou wou just as you took last year. In my case, the chinese girl mixes it with other chinese ingredients plus some black sesame. Under what form did you have and take he shou wouh? Leaves or ground leaves , i.e powder? How do you mean "too strong"? made you jumpy or something, right? Where did you get it from? What dose did you take?
How much twinlab dmaeH3 and ionic copper do you apply daily?
Thanks.

Posted By : dLaertios - 3/11/2007 9:14 PM
Hi,
http://www.bagelhole.org/?page=141  I made the device according to that. Google for colloidal silver or copper and you will find a lot of devices and instructions to make it.
Also I cut Paba tablets and use the content only. LOL.

Flowergirl, did you see any difference? I know that 3 weeks is nothing but the method works fast.

Anyone else that tried it?

Also I have asked Zorba and before after how many months of daily use he had a full reversal.
At first I was very optimistic but now I believe that maybe one or two years are needed.

Posted By : brm - 3/11/2007 9:25 PM
http://www.vitaminexpress.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/19/products_id/285

So, this is the site you got your DMAE from, Aussie David.
1°) I understand that this new topical you have has been made with this, all right. But, do you know (or anyone here) why they warn against any topical use?
2°) Reading your regimen, I understand as well you drink 1 ml of it daily, correct? How long have you been doing so?

Thank you AD.

Posted By : jcwst1 - 3/11/2007 9:28 PM

Hello all,

     I see all the posts on gray hair, and I'm posting what I know from an entirely different point of view, which is, alternative medicine.  I read on Dr. walt Stoll's forum (see askwaltstollmd.com, look in the forums, under hair color loss or search on gray hair), that gray hair is caused mostly by a magnesium deficiency (believeable, since 95% of Americans are deficient in it); and, I have been taking a full dose of Mg for about 2 years, and my whitish gray hair is now a very light camel (note: take an absorbable form of Mg such as mg glycincate; less absorbable forms will have a "milk of magnesia" effect; mg citrate is cheaper but somewhat less absorbable).  However, I have not been taking it for the purposes of gray hair -- I have been taking it because I have an adrenal disorder, and mg is very good for recovering adrenals.

     It would be interesting to see if this continues, but I am about to ruin the experiment, by taking a small daily dose of HGH (see other forums), which should definitely increase hair color.  But my contribution is this -- you must take a daily full dose of magnesium (one way or another), relying on HGH alone is not enough.

Jim


Posted By : AussieDavid - 3/12/2007 11:33 AM
brm said...
So, this is the site you got your DMAE from, Aussie David.
1°) I understand that this new topical you have has been made with this, all right. But, do you know (or anyone here) why they warn against any topical use?
2°) Reading your regimen, I understand as well you drink 1 ml of it daily, correct? How long have you been doing so?

Thank you AD.
The label says: 'Not intended for topical use - Use only as directed.'
I didn't take that as meaning it's dangerous for topical use. I do not have any pharmaceutical knowledge so I don't know why they put this on the label. My chemist has successfully mixed it in to the copper solution, and I am happy to give it a go. Zorba990 is having success with it and doesn't report any adverse side-effects.
I have been taking DMAE H3 orally since August 2006. I have no noticeable reversal of grey hair.

Posted By : flowergirl - 3/12/2007 5:12 PM
The real chinese stuff IS he shou wou just as you took last year. In my case, the chinese girl mixes it with other chinese ingredients plus some black sesame. Under what form did you have and take he shou wouh? Leaves or ground leaves , i.e powder? How do you mean "too strong"? made you jumpy or something, right? Where did you get it from? What dose did you take?
How much twinlab dmaeH3 and ionic copper do you apply daily?
Thanks.

i got it from a herbal company that sells direct to practitioners, but i forgot their name. it came in a huge tub in liquid form. i took way too much, i was drinkin it down (lol), and of course i impacted my liver! but i was also taking too many vitamins on an empty stomach too. thats why i switched to the shen min, but saw no dfference at all with that. the he shu wu defnitely worked, but i'd have to go back to experimenting with the dosages again. i tried to rememba the companys name but i cant find any of the receipts.

im using a whole dropper full of dmae-h3 (1 ml)
4 drops of vit b3
capful of ionic copper

which is what zorba recommended. im not sure if theres been any reversal yet. im pretty impatient so unless theres a huge difference i dont really see it. but am gonna keep on with it, cos now its an easy routine to stick with. im not taking any dmae-h3 orally as i cant stand the smell!

one thing i am doing everyday is im visualizing my hair follicle getting re-ignited with full color and my hair growing back in its rich full original color!! cant but help...!

Posted By : zorba990 - 3/12/2007 7:25 PM
flowergirl said...
The real chinese stuff IS he shou wou just as you took last year. In my case, the chinese girl mixes it with other chinese ingredients plus some black sesame. Under what form did you have and take he shou wouh? Leaves or ground leaves , i.e powder? How do you mean "too strong"? made you jumpy or something, right? Where did you get it from? What dose did you take?
How much twinlab dmaeH3 and ionic copper do you apply daily?
Thanks.

i got it from a herbal company that sells direct to practitioners, but i forgot their name. it came in a huge tub in liquid form. i took way too much, i was drinkin it down (lol), and of course i impacted my liver! but i was also taking too many vitamins on an empty stomach too. thats why i switched to the shen min, but saw no dfference at all with that. the he shu wu defnitely worked, but i'd have to go back to experimenting with the dosages again. i tried to rememba the companys name but i cant find any of the receipts.

im using a whole dropper full of dmae-h3 (1 ml)
4 drops of vit b3
capful of ionic copper

which is what zorba recommended. im not sure if theres been any reversal yet. im pretty impatient so unless theres a huge difference i dont really see it. but am gonna keep on with it, cos now its an easy routine to stick with. im not taking any dmae-h3 orally as i cant stand the smell!

one thing i am doing everyday is im visualizing my hair follicle getting re-ignited with full color and my hair growing back in its rich full original color!! cant but help...!
The real chinese herbal formula for graying hair is not just he shou wu. I never reccomended B3.  Vitamin D would be good to add in emulsified form.

Posted By : zorba990 - 3/12/2007 7:29 PM
jcwst1 said...

Hello all,

     I see all the posts on gray hair, and I'm posting what I know from an entirely different point of view, which is, alternative medicine.  I read on Dr. walt Stoll's forum (see askwaltstollmd.com, look in the forums, under hair color loss or search on gray hair), that gray hair is caused mostly by a magnesium deficiency (believeable, since 95% of Americans are deficient in it); and, I have been taking a full dose of Mg for about 2 years, and my whitish gray hair is now a very light camel (note: take an absorbable form of Mg such as mg glycincate; less absorbable forms will have a "milk of magnesia" effect; mg citrate is cheaper but somewhat less absorbable).  However, I have not been taking it for the purposes of gray hair -- I have been taking it because I have an adrenal disorder, and mg is very good for recovering adrenals.

     It would be interesting to see if this continues, but I am about to ruin the experiment, by taking a small daily dose of HGH (see other forums), which should definitely increase hair color.  But my contribution is this -- you must take a daily full dose of magnesium (one way or another), relying on HGH alone is not enough.

Jim

Magnesium can be absorbed topically by bathing in Epsom Salts  For those that are very deficiencient you can dump 2-4 pounds in a bath at a time.  (topically only) 

http://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/articles/Report_on_Absorption_of_magnesium_sulfate.pdf


Posted By : jcwst1 - 3/13/2007 6:29 PM
>Magnesium can be absorbed topically by bathing in Epsom Salts 
 
That is an interesting study (if you really want to see an interesting use of Epsom salts, do a search on liver cleanse using Epson salts & olive oil, but I digress), but the effects would be short lived.  It's easy to take a daily magnesium supplement; I take "Doctor's Best" High Absorption Magnesium, which contains mg glycinate; I used to take Mg citrate (from vitamin world), which is cheaper but less absorbable.
     Aside from the gray hair issue, I recent heard (source Mercola.com) that Fish Oil and Magnesium are the two supplements a person should take, if they take nothing else.  This agrees with what I've read elsewhere, including in regards to gray hair, so I advocate magnesium supplementation.  

Posted By : zorba990 - 3/13/2007 7:28 PM
jcwst1 said...
>Magnesium can be absorbed topically by bathing in Epsom Salts 
 
That is an interesting study (if you really want to see an interesting use of Epsom salts, do a search on liver cleanse using Epson salts & olive oil, but I digress), but the effects would be short lived.  It's easy to take a daily magnesium supplement; I take "Doctor's Best" High Absorption Magnesium, which contains mg glycinate; I used to take Mg citrate (from vitamin world), which is cheaper but less absorbable.
     Aside from the gray hair issue, I recent heard (source Mercola.com) that Fish Oil and Magnesium are the two supplements a person should take, if they take nothing else.  This agrees with what I've read elsewhere, including in regards to gray hair, so I advocate magnesium supplementation.  
For some reason once you get below a certain level of magnesium in the body it becomes more difficult to absorb it.  Taking epson salt baths can get you over the hump so to speak.  I also take magnesium supplements since I am a heavy exerciser and there is ample evidence that more magnesium is used up doing that. 

Posted By : greyboy - 3/14/2007 11:07 AM
i agree about the magnesium. I ws told by a chemist i was really low in magnesium and since supplementing for 2-3 months my hair is darker and healthier but no reversal yet. My gp also told me magnesium would halt my greying. I agree that any supplement program should include magnesium as it helps to absorb other vitamins such as b12. if one was to research the benefits of magnesium they would see that it will have a very beneficial effect.

Posted By : RED- No Source Talk # 2 - 3/16/2007 11:10 AM

For the guy who wrote about the stop the gray hair.  I'm young 33 don't  have much gray hair except on the sides.  You can't stop it.  Women like it.  They find it distinguishing.  I'm good looking so if my hair was completely grey or just go out and or buy "Just for men"  - RRM  You wrote:

HI EVERYONE:

 
HOW DOES ONE REVERSE THE GROWTH OF GREY HAIR?  I AM A 39 YR. OLD MALE.  I EXERCISE 4 TO 5 TIMES A WEEK (MOSTLY BODYBUILDING), I DON'T SMOKE AND DRINK ONLY SOCIALLY.  I WATCH MY DIET REGULARLY AS I LIKE TO STAY IN GOOD PHYSICAL SHAPE.   I HAVE A FULL HEAD OF DARK HAIR AND I WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. BUT I HAVE A SMALL GROUP OF GREYS SHOWING UP ON THE FRONT RIGHT PART OF MY HEAD.  I ALSO HAVE A SMALL GOATEE WICH IS NOW LOOKING SALT & PEPPER.  ARE THERE ANY FOODS WHICH WOULD REVERSE THIS PROCESS, OR STOP IT BEFORE IT GETS WORSE? freaked

Posted By : StarGazer - 3/19/2007 10:33 AM
From a 1944 book -

Inositol (at least 2000 mg) was recommended for grey hair.

Also, it said "If you are serious about wanting your hair to change back to its natural color, drink a quart of yogurt daily and have a teaspoon of brewers' yeast before each meal."

The author also said "I personally believe iodine can be of value in hair difficulties."

Anyone try any of these?
Inositol, quart of yogurt, brewers' yeast, iodine?

Posted By : gotsomegray - 3/19/2007 11:36 AM
brm said...
Hi dlaertios. I am completely unable to build this machine you're talking about. Can you share a photo of this outfit you've made? How can you be sure that the copper solution you get is proper colloidal copper? How do you get rid of filling particles that melt from the paba tablets you throw in?
Gotsomegray, if this route is correct (shedding needed), how come I found mixed colored strands, some grey and dark and others dark and grey from root to tip? It seems to be the proof that the hair doesn't need to be shed to get pigmented again?...
brm,
I was just speculating and forgot that you had found strands that had repigmented.  That is better news in my opinion as it would take less time to recolor that way.  I am just beginning to wonder if a lot of these "cures" for gray hair are counting on shedding of the gray hair. 

Posted By : brm - 3/20/2007 6:16 PM
Hi gotsomegray (but until we've found any "cure", you should go in for "gotmoregray")

While looking close at my hair yesterday, I could assess that no overall improvement was on. I found 2 more strands white at the root and dark at the tip, indicating the greying process must rather be this one. But I found a new species: white at the root, pigmented over 1/2 inch and white again at the tip... What the heck is this? Could repigmentation trigger and hold up intermittently?...
One more point: daily use of folligen (2ml) gives white strands a pale greenish tint hop even after washing. Could (and may!) this process get enhanced over time?:

Posted By : Niko - 3/26/2007 11:53 AM
The following study showed an interesting effect of oral Tribulus extract, its apparent ability to restore hair pigmentation in rats.
 
Nan Fang Yi Ke Da Xue Xue Bao. 2006 Dec;26(12):1777-9.
 
Department of Traditional Chinese Medicine, Southern Medical University, Guangzhou 510515, China.

Yang L, Lu JW, An J, Jiang X.
 
"OBJECTIVE: To observe the effect of Tribulus terrestris extract on melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH) expression in C57BL/6J mouse hair follicles, and investigate the role of Tribulus terrestris extract in activation, proliferation, epidermal migration of dormant hair follicle melanocytes.
CONCLUSION: The aqueous extract of Tribulus terrestris can significantly increase MSH expression in the hair follicle melanocytes by activating tyrosinase activity and promoting melanocyte proliferation, melanine synthesis, and epidermal migration of dormant melanocytes."
 
PMID: 17259119

Posted By : dLaertios - 3/26/2007 11:54 AM
Brm,
How old are you and how much of your hair is grey (percentage)? Also how many amalgam dental fillings do you have? I have a lot, maybe 20, and I intend to replace them with nontoxic white ones. Mercury is very toxic and depletes your body's zinc and copper.

After all that research I believe that copper is the main ingredient that is responsible for our hair color. You need to protect it and also to help your body to absorb it (I think with vitamin C, PABA, pantothenic and some protein, minerals and amino acids).
I think that until I change all the amalgam fillings my body will have problem with all that mercury toxicity and won't be able to make a full reversal to hair color.

As far as the topical is concerned, try to use colloidal copper (or better, ionic) and PABA, drink a little, maybe 2 teaspoons and the rest try to massage it to your scalp. Massage vigorously to your side hair (as it is stronger and you are not afraid if they fall) for 5 minutes to help your follicles to absorb it. Good luck.

Posted By : kench - 3/27/2007 11:01 AM
This has been a great, long thread, with dedicated investigators (amateur) who are determined to see if a few anecdotal trial and observe experiments can uncover what should be a straight-forward aging mechanism.

Since we have easy access to our skin and melanocytes through topical treatments, and we can farily accurately gauge the results, this should be an ideal test bed for dedicated laymen, and is a model that LEF should have picked up on long ago, for making use of smart life-extenders.

Posted By : brm - 3/27/2007 1:02 PM
dLaertios said...
Brm,
How old are you and how much of your hair is grey (percentage)? Also how many amalgam dental fillings do you have? I have a lot, maybe 20, and I intend to replace them with nontoxic white ones. Mercury is very toxic and depletes your body's zinc and copper.

After all that research I believe that copper is the main ingredient that is responsible for our hair color. You need to protect it and also to help your body to absorb it (I think with vitamin C, PABA, pantothenic and some protein, minerals and amino acids).
I think that until I change all the amalgam fillings my body will have problem with all that mercury toxicity and won't be able to make a full reversal to hair color.

As far as the topical is concerned, try to use colloidal copper (or better, ionic) and PABA, drink a little, maybe 2 teaspoons and the rest try to massage it to your scalp. Massage vigorously to your side hair (as it is stronger and you are not afraid if they fall) for 5 minutes to help your follicles to absorb it. Good luck.


Hi dlaertios.

I will turn 43 next month. The overall percentage of my grey hair is around 2 -5%, but in the front area, this percentage is rather around 10 - 20%, which means I am now at great lengths to hide my grey. I must cut each strand short and rely upon the longer dark ones to make this possible. I have many dental fillings as well, though 13 of my 31 teeth are now protheses whose frame are metallic but not made of mercury. I don't plan to replace the existing fillings since many of the affected teeth might just collapse from the very removing of the filling itself. I supplement both zinc and copper orally. I also take vit C (only 100 mg daily since it plays a little havoc on my stomach), PABA (500 mg) and a complete formulation I 've found on the internet but think useless to give away here until proof to its efficiency.

I'll talk this filling problem up again with my new dentist. May I point out though that my father whose mouth was full of mercury fillings for decade got his first grey strands in his mid 60s and that my brother who is quite "mercury free" was struck by grey in his late 30s, as was my mother whose dental condition has always been remarkable. I do not believe too much in this option.

dLaertios, what you suggest is : ionic copper (what concentration?) + PABA (what concentration?). But I understood in a previous post of yours that what you needed the machine for was precisely colloidal copper. So, dissolving some copper Cu2+ something would rather do the trick without the machine?

Niko: as any prohormonal substance, tribulus is likely to induce hairloss with individuals subject to DHT overproduction. I would touch it with a grain of salt.

BTW: I 've found 2 more strands white at the tip and black at the root and 2 other exhibiting the exact reverse condition. Since I see no overall improvement, I am wondering if depletion of melanin is not a puffing-choking process in its early stages until melanocytes come to an outright shutdown after a few weeks. sad

Posted By : dLaertios - 3/27/2007 8:28 PM
Brm,

Interesting information.

Maybe the whole thing of grey hair is genetic but I believe that we can help our bodies with the right supplementation to overcome it. Maybe if your brother had amalgam fillings [he would have] started to go grey from his early teens. Who knows?

It isn't the same thing to dissolve copper. Colloidal copper are negative ions and as Dr Wallach says the body can absorb them easily. Ionic copper is better because the particles are smaller and our body can absorb it very easy.

Something else is that maybe with aging the hair follicle becomes bigger in diameter and although there are plenty of melanocytes to dark colored persons can't dye the hair. Thats my opinion. So maybe with copper as it helps the skin become tighter and with the massage our scalp skin become tighter and the melanocytes become able to dye the hair. It is something possible.

Posted By : brm - 3/28/2007 11:07 AM
So, this ionic copper you talk about is negative ionic copper? Right? processed from colloidal copper or what? But where does flowergirl get her ionic copper? And do you know what kind of copper folligen contains (copper peptides): positive or negative?

Posted By : dLaertios - 3/28/2007 2:21 PM
I read that colloidal form of copper (ionic also) is anion. It doesn't matter as our body needs copper not in form of anion or cation.

The whole thing is experimental. There were anecdotal reports that copper worked. Zorba tried a solution and it worked for him and was kind to share.

I tried a similar solution and this works for me. Maybe are the supplements that help I don't know but I don't have to check it right now as my number one priority is to reverse my white hair. :).

Supplement regimen:
breakfast: 15 mg beta-carotene, 4 of brewers yeast
lunch: super B+C, 550 mg pantothenic
dinner (not every day now as sometimes have fast food and take lunch late at noon): Vit E 1000 iu.

Posted By : brm - 3/29/2007 11:17 AM
dLaertios, thank you for this regime you share here. But again, what is the concentration of this copper solution you have? I think I remember that water is not the vehicle, is it?
I may consider buying this http://www.purestcolloids.com/mesocopper.htm

Posted By : dLaertios - 4/4/2007 7:12 PM
Brm,
your colloid seems good. It isn't bad idea to use it internally. Maybe is better than the one I make in my home and you will be able to control the daily dosage of copper which I can't.

I don' t know how much copper I take daily because I don't know the concentration of my homemade solution. I have only searched about copper overload to body and I am careful if any of these symptoms appears to lower my dose. Also I try to take 2 tablespoons (to 4) as it is very difficult to have achieve so much copper concentration that will be more than the daily 4 mg dosage which doesn't hurt.

As far as the topical concerned I wouldn't use that expensive colloid but I suggest to make your own bulk homemade as it won't hurt your scalp I assume.

Good luck

Posted By : cdkona - 4/5/2007 10:19 AM

I have been using a topical solution of ionic copper and dmae H3 for about 6 weeks, with no visible change.  I want to make sure I am using the right copper solution.  It is found here http://www.kornax.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ACU&Category_Code=&Store_Code=KE

If anyone could take a look and let me know if I am on the right track, that would be great.  Having read about homemade solutions, collodials, etc, I am wondering if I am using the right stuff.

By the way I have not used this or the DMAE H3 orally, so that may be the reason this hasn't produced results yet.

Thanks!


Posted By : dLaertios - 4/5/2007 3:10 PM
Nice feedback cdkona,
I don't know what other supplements do you take, your age and the percentance of your gray hair.
I think you don't apply sufficient amount to your scalp .
Try to make your own colloidal as it will be cheap and you won't have a problem to massage generous amounts to your scalp every day. Use this bottle for oral supplementation 2-4 mg a day sounds good.
I am almost in the third month and every day I see less and less gray.
I became optimist and started to give my scalp a half hour massage daily as I want to get rid of gray hair asap.
supplement regimen:
morning : beta carotene 15 mg, 4 brewers yeast
lunch : super B+C, 550mg pantothenic acid
dinner : 1000 iu vitamin E

Posted By : cdkona - 4/5/2007 6:52 PM
I am in my mid 30s, probably 15-20% gray, more so in the back of the head and above the ears.

I use half a tablespoon of copper solution and a dropperful of the Twinlab DMAE H3. I apply that and it totally saturates my head, to the point where it will be running/dripping all over the place if I use more.

For supplements I take acetyl L-Carnitine 400 mg and ALA 200 mg, saw Palmetto, PABA (500 mg), Fo-ti 1220 mg and a daily vitamin. I just added magnesium 400 mg /zinc 15 mg and this week biotin 60 0mcg due to what I read about ALA inducing grays. I also take a B-150 vitamin supplement.

I got a strange sensation from the DMAE H3 orally, maybe I should start with a lower dose than the 10 drops.

Anyway that's the full report, it looks like I need to change my shopping list and maybe pick up some brewer's yeast, vitamin E, pantothenic acid. I want to try this route first. If I find something that works I hope to drop the things that don't. Its a lot of pills to keep track of daily.

Any place you could recommend buying the colloidal?

Thanks!

Posted By : dLaertios - 4/6/2007 10:32 AM
I think half tablespoon is a little quantity.  Try to make your own for topical use so as to be cheap to use a large quantity. Also I dissolve a PABA capsule 550 mg to my solution, I believe a lot more than that to a dropperful of your DMAE.

Last I would recommend to take some copper internally maybe 1-2 teaspoon daily.
Good Luck.

Posted By : cdkona - 4/6/2007 11:56 AM
Thanks dLaertios. I definitely have the PABA caps to dissolve into the solution.

Am I looking to buy a dry copper powder to make my own solution? All the ionic and collodial products appear to be dissovled in water. If you can point me towards a source it would really help.

My current solution of ionic copper is 750 mcg per teaspoon which it says is about 40% of the daily value for adults so maybe it isn't that strong. I think 150 ppm.

Posted By : cdkona - 4/9/2007 11:43 AM
I tried mixing Paba caps (500mg) Twinlab into my ionic copper solution. It would not dissolve and eventually the copper oxidized and turned green. Is there a more concentrated liquid form other than DMAE H3? It is only 150 mg of Paba. I also saw that zorba mentioned a vegetarian form that he was considering. Thanks, cd

Posted By : Niko - 4/11/2007 1:53 PM

A nutritional way to release cyclic AMP [growth hormone and ACTH]?

If so…

 

A study indicates that gray hair is cause by a decrease of melanocyte controls by the MSH from the pituitary gland that requires cyclic AMP. Gray hair and age spots are highly visible indications that cyclic AMP levels are probably running low in your pituitary and cyclic AMP [growth hormone and ACTH] are having a difficult time being released into the bloodstream. This would suggest that if there was a way to stimulate this release we could reverse graying hair.

The epidermis has melanocytes that release melanin responsible for tanning and protection of the skin against UV radiation. As melanocytes decrease with age, your protection against UV also decreases. This leads to the appearances of "age-spots" that does UV catalyze accumulations of cross-linked proteins and fats, due to the absence of sufficient melanin.

Gray hair is also caused by a decrease in the number of melanocytes within the hair follicles. MSH controls the number of these melanocytes. The release of MSH from the pituitary gland requires cyclic AMP.

 

General References


Wu, C.-C., Ko, F.-N., Kuo, S.-C., et al. YC-1 inhibited human platelet aggregation through NO-independent activation of soluble guanylate cyclase. Br. J. Pharmacol. 116, 1973-1978 (1995).


Leitinger, N., Blazek, lace w:st="on">I. lace>, and Sinzinger, H. The influence of isoprostanes on ADP-induced platelet aggregation and cyclic AMP- generation in human platelets. Thromb. Res. 86, 337-342 (1997).


Ko, F.-N., Wu, C.-C., Kuo, S.-C., et al. YC-1, a novel activator of platelet guanylate cyclase. Blood 84, 4226-4233 (1994).

 

Pradelles, P., Grassi, J., Chabardes, D., et al. Enzyme immunoassays of adenosine cyclic 3',5'-monophosphate and guanosine cyclic 3',5'- monophosphate using acetylcholinesterase. Anal. Chem. 61, 447-452 (1989).



Posted By : cdkona - 4/11/2007 4:20 PM
I saw this from a company that sells copper based toothpaste. You may want to rinse with your copper solution as well.

Copper hinders the polymerization of the sialic acid found in saliva, preventing the formation of the sticky polymers (pellicile) that lead to both sticky plaque and calculus formation.

Posted By : brm - 4/11/2007 4:26 PM
http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/news/ng.asp?n=75319-anti-aging-hair-gray

If this is the exclusive underlying cause of greying, then all our efforts seem to be doomed. How can we reverse a genetic malfunction with the petty weapons we have?

Posted By : dLaertios - 4/11/2007 4:34 PM
Cdcona,
if you see my previous post (3/9/2007) you wil find that I have a bubble machine for aquarium. This machine helps PABA to dissolve.

You say that eventually copper oxidized and turned green, you are too close to what I use for topical. My copper electrodes are covered from a thick green layer. I don't clean them as I believe that is more beneficial to have this oxidized copper. Although there is a lot of green my final solution isn't green.
 
In the past when I cleaned the electrodes my solution was green, I don't know why but green is ok too and maybe more beneficial.

Posted By : august - 4/11/2007 7:12 PM

Regarding Nikkos post today where he said:

Gray hair and age spots are highly visible indications that cyclic AMP levels are probably running low in your pituitary and cyclic AMP [growth hormone and ACTH] are having a difficult time being released into the bloodstream. This would suggest that if there was a way to stimulate this release we could reverse graying hair

The LEF product below is said to do just that!
 

Posted By : sashi - 4/12/2007 10:43 AM
Hi,
Well, we all still need to find some solution to gray hair problem. i am 30, and my crown has already started showing a few grays. Well, currently i am just hiding my grays by way of coloring or dyeing.

sashi

Posted By : Energy Goddess - 4/12/2007 6:49 PM
My hair is starting to turn back to my natural dark brown. It has been graying since I was 25. I found two hairs that were dark from the root and after about 2 inches were gray. Of course if hair grays from the tip back, this might mean nothing. But I do energy work. I used to supplement, I ate raw food exclusively for a year, I've taken Dr. Wallach's supplements, I've done cleansing, but the thing that has done the most good for my health, and my appearance is definitely ridding myself of fear, negative energy, and dark energy.

Try EFT on gray hair. (www.emofree.com ) I know if you have read my posts, I am starting to sound like a broken record, but this REALLY works, and it is a basic energy technique that doesn't require any kind of training or the ability to muscle test or astral project. It is also highly effective. I did one round of EFT with my 9 year old niece last May, and she has not has an asthma attack since. She was a heavily medicated asthmatic up until that point.

Posted By : flowergirl - 4/12/2007 8:08 PM
hey enrgy gdss,

i know eft. how exactly did you use the eft with regards to grey hair?? and how many times did you do eft on it?

as for the forskolin, i remenber zorba mentioned that a while ago.

zorba do you think it has had effect on the grey??

Posted By : zorba990 - 4/13/2007 3:41 PM
flowergirl said...
hey enrgy gdss,

i know eft. how exactly did you use the eft with regards to grey hair?? and how many times did you do eft on it?

as for the forskolin, i remenber zorba mentioned that a while ago.

zorba do you think it has had effect on the grey??
Not sure. My trial with it topically produced a rash every time. So I'm not keen to try it on my scalp where I want inflammation minimized.  Hot water adzuki bean extract might be something to try.  No rash for me on that one.  Topical ATP (disodium salt) seems to be promoting hair growth but no change in color from that (of course its not really needed for me now).  ATP is a large molecule but I believe it can travel down the hair shaft no problem.
 
Resveratrol might be worth a try topically...just need the pure stuff...Pomegranate probably promotes growth since it enhances NO. However, it has the classic plant pigment staining problem.   Might be funny to go purple!
 
 
 

Posted By : AussieDavid - 4/14/2007 7:53 PM

Yesterday I went to see a doctor who practices 'integrative medicine'. I wanted a second opinion on my hair analysis that I had done last year, as well as wanting a second opinion on my current supplement regime and my efforts to reverse my grey hair.

A few interesting things came out of the consultation.

(1) The doctor said the copper/zinc ratio in the body should be 1.2:1   He is now getting my serum copper and plasma zinc levels checked. He said that most people generally have too much copper in their system and not enough zinc. High zinc levels in the hair are actually indicative of LOW zinc levels in the body. Conversely, high copper levels in the hair indicate high copper levels in the body (although using dyes on the hair will give an abnormally high copper result). It makes me wonder if those people getting results by applying topical copper actually have low zinc levels (ie, low body zinc=high hair zinc. Applying copper topically to the hair may be 'balancing' the copper/zinc ratio in the scalp/hair). I'm not a chemist, so this is just a concept i'm curious about. The bottom line is that testing serum copper levels and plasma zinc levels and then looking at the ratio may help determine whether you should be supplementing with either copper or zinc, or neither. 

(2) The doctor said that he has had comments from a few patients who have detoxed with Zeolite that their grey hairs have gone or reduced in number. He said it is a very effective detox agent and it's probably worth a try. If you google 'zeolite' and 'waiora', you will find heaps of sites selling it. He metioned to me that it's sold under a multi-level marketing system, so check the prices. I have found one that looks ok.

http://www.spectrumsupplements.com/en/LiquidZeolite/index.html

The doctor said that the 3 pack is all the you need. Week one, you start with one drop in water, 3 times/day. Week two, you increase it to 2 drops, 3 times/day, week three, 3 drops, 3 times/day...etc etc, increasing to 10 drops/3 times/day by week 10. Then just finish off the 3 bottles at the maximum dosage of 10 drops/3 times/day. He said that he had one patient who started out straight on the 10 drops,3 times/day and broke out in severe hives. It turned out that she had toxic levels of mercury in her body.

(3) Probably the most interesting thing that came out of the consultation was the possibility of getting injected with stem cells that target the hair. He has sent patients with chronic illnesses to have stem cell injections and has had amazing results. It's very expensive and I need to research it more. I have the company business card and contact details and will email them to see if they can do anything for hair. I've looked at their website and they do offer an 'anti-ageing' stem cell injection. Exactly what it involves, I need to find out. The doctor mentioned to me that they take the cells from Rabbits in Russia that have been clinically bred and isolated from the outside world. The procedures are approved by Australia's TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) and they're a tough bunch to get anything past. The treatment is currently NOT available in Australia however because hospital ethics committees don't approve of it (the injection has to be done in a sterile hospital environment). The company he referred me to has offices in Asia, Europe and Mexico that do it. They also have offices in the USA, but I don't think they can do the injections there. He said the cost would probably be in the order of USD15000. The cells are taken by courier from Russia, and then injected on the day of delivery at destination. I'd be interested to know what others think of this possibility. Here is their asia website:

www.bcro-asia.com

Post Edited (AussieDavid) : 4/14/2007 11:50:27 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : zorba990 - 4/16/2007 9:45 AM
"High zinc levels in the hair are actually indicative of LOW zinc levels in the body. Conversely, high copper levels in the hair indicate high copper levels in the body "

Huh? How/why would this be so? How would the high levels of zinc get into the hair
if they were not coming form the body?

"Probably the most interesting thing that came out of the consultation was the possibility of getting injected with stem cells that target the hair."
Hopefully these would be your own stem cells. Otherwise it sounds very risky to me.

Has zeolite been approved for ingestion? From the description of these minerals they
sound an awful lot like asbestos. Cilantro seems much safer as a chelator to me.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 4/16/2007 10:54 AM
zorba990 said...
"High zinc levels in the hair are actually indicative of LOW zinc levels in the body. Conversely, high copper levels in the hair indicate high copper levels in the body "

Huh? How/why would this be so? How would the high levels of zinc get into the hair
if they were not coming form the body? 
It's definitely true about high hair zinc levels indicating low internal zinc levels. I have now been told this by 2 doctors and a trichologist. My hair analysis was done by 'Doctors Data' in Chicago USA. In relation to my high hair zinc levels they said:
 
"High hair Zinc (Zn) may be indicative of low Zn in cells, and functional Zn deficiency. Zn can be displaced from proteins such as intracellular metallothionein by other metals, particularly cadmium, lead, copper, and mercury (Toxicology of Merals, 1994), resulting in paradoxically elevated hair Zn. Zn may also be high in hair as a result of the use of Zn-containing anti-dandruff shampoo. Rough or dry, flaky skin is a symptom of Zn deficiency, so it is not uncommon for Zn deficient patients to use an anti-dandruff shampoo. A result of high hair Zn warrants further testing to assess Zn status."
 
I don't have rough or dry flaky skin, and I don't use an anti-dandruff shampoo. I do however have high hair zinc levels. The serum copper and plasma zinc tests I'm about to get done will provide some more insight.
 
zorba990 said....
"Probably the most interesting thing that came out of the consultation was the possibility of getting injected with stem cells that target the hair."
Hopefully these would be your own stem cells. Otherwise it sounds very risky to me
That was my initial thought as well. Apparently there is virtually no risk associated with using rabbit stem cells. If you have a read of the website it gives more detail.
 
 
The doctor I saw works for a very reputable practice and I believe what he tells me. He has sent many diabetes patients to have stem cell injections and he described the results as being 'remarkable'.
 
zorba990 said...
Has zeolite been approved for ingestion? From the description of these minerals they
sound an awful lot like asbestos. Cilantro seems much safer as a chelator to me.
I do not know if Zeolite has been approved for ingestion. If you google it, you will find loads of information about it. Again, he has used it on several patients and in his words 'a high percentage' said that their grey hair had reduced or disappeared. I've ordered some today, so I'll give it a go.
 
On another note....today I found another hair with a dark root and white tip. It's a new hair, about 6mm long and sprouting out of an area where I had shedding a couple of months ago. It is not in an area where I apply the topical copper however. It's at the top of my forehead and I don't apply copper there because I use a minoxidil solution. I've been taking liquid Cats Claw again now for a couple of months and I'm starting to wonder if this might be having an effect. I remember when I first found 2 hairs last year that had a dark root and white tip, I was taking cats claw then as well. I think that makes about 4 or 5 hairs in total that I have found over the past year that have had this reversal. Don't get too excited though, I think I've actually had a lot more go grey in the same time.

Post Edited (AussieDavid) : 4/16/2007 10:05:43 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : flowergirl - 4/16/2007 8:19 PM
i came accross zeolite cos gabrile cousens was talkin about it about a year ago. he is at the forefront of the raw food movement and has written seminal books on eating and health. he has been doing programmes of detoxing with zeolite and seems to have had amazing results. his website is treeoflife.nu

thanx aussie - u remninded me about it. was gonna order some back then, but didnt. think i will now!!

Posted By : AL1 - 4/17/2007 9:54 AM
Have you considered using an HGH supplement? From my understanding hgh has been shown to reverse hair graying. Apparently the only way to really find out is to try the supplements as not all people will get the same result. Check out this site it has a list of successful supplements that could be tried risk free. http://www.hghinfo.org/hgh-supplements.php

Posted By : zorba990 - 4/17/2007 6:01 PM
flowergirl said...
i came accross zeolite cos gabrile cousens was talkin about it about a year ago. he is at the forefront of the raw food movement and has written seminal books on eating and health. he has been doing programmes of detoxing with zeolite and seems to have had amazing results. his website is treeoflife.nu

thanx aussie - u remninded me about it. was gonna order some back then, but didnt. think i will now!!
While the description sounds good, http://www.treeoflife.nu/zeolite.html, it (the page) doesn't really mention what this O-ring testing is and how it is able to determine toxins in peoples brains, liver, etc. 
 
If you read through this, http://www.newstarget.com/015232.html , it also looks good.  But if you read to the comments at the end of the page you can see that some have found it difficult to find reliable references that support the author's statements.
 
It would be simple enough to test people's urine before and after (as is done with many chelators) to determine if this stuff is really eliminating metals, etc.  But there doesn't appear to be that minimal effort on the part of people selling it.  The mechanism of action sounds interesting, some more solid research would be welcome.
 
 
 

Posted By : cdkona - 4/18/2007 6:38 PM
Below is the title of a patent from free patents online. Not much detail, and I do not know how old it is, but I assume you cannot buy a topical application of alpha-MSH at this time. The release of MSH via cyclic AMP appears to be the only route for this theory.

"Method of stimulating melanocytes by topical application of analogs of alpha-MSH, and compositions for use in same"

Posted By : cdkona - 4/18/2007 6:39 PM
http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0002429/47/

More on forskolin from last September.

Posted By : lad - 4/18/2007 6:45 PM
I think "O-Ring Testing" is simple "applied kinesiology" muscle-testing -noting resistance when puling apart your pinched thumb/index fingers when exposed to suspected "toxins." Applied kinesiology has pretty much failed every double-blind study thrown at it, so I wouldn't put much faith in the O-Ring variant.

I have an inexpensive home metals testing kit (for water and urine) I got from eBay. When I used an expensive rapid chelator product, my urine did test high for mercury. I have another kit on hand I may use if I ever try some eBay zeolite.

Posted By : DapperDon - 4/20/2007 10:47 AM
Unfortunately HGH does nothing to reverse the silver hairs!



 


Posted By : lad - 4/20/2007 2:46 PM
The muscle-testing studies involved the commonly used "applied kinesiology" technique - pushing the subject's arm down while they were somehow exposed to various toxic or beneficial substances, thoughts, etc. One study even allowed the practitoners to pre-test, qualify and pick from many subjects based on their arm strength's consistant responses to known substances.

The substances were later masked, mixed and retested so that neither the practioners, subjects and testers knew which was which until after the test. There were no longer consistant responses when no one consciously knew what was being held and tested.

No disrespect, but If this kind of testing is truly an intuitive, subjective, developed skill that can falter at times, then it can't always be reliably used (esp. when you are risking ingesting toxins, allergens and such). I'm open-minded to a lot of things, but in more of a "trust, but verify" way.

Can you, or anyone you know, claim to see "auras" consistantly? Even in the dark? If so, I have some very interesting proposals... :-)

Posted By : Niko - 4/22/2007 7:39 PM
cdkona said...
http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0002429/47/

More on forskolin from last September.

That's interesting. From my last post the study suggest that:

Gray hair and age spots are highly visible indications that cyclic AMP levels are probably running low in your pituitary and cyclic AMP [growth hormone and ACTH] are having a difficult time being released into the bloodstream. This would suggest that if there was a way to stimulate this release we could reverse graying hair.

Now this mouse experiment seems to concur although, it was the with skin:

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0002429/47/

And, on the LEF product Forskolin description is states, "The basic mechanism of action of forskolin is the activation of an enzyme, adenylate cyclase, which increases cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) in cells".

I think this is more reasonable than the copper theory.


Posted By : anna888 - 4/22/2007 7:39 PM
Wow, if not cure your gray hair, at least all these antioxidants, herbs, and vitamins you are consuming will at least make you all very healthy, and you will have excellent skin. I starting to notice a few white roots, mostly at the top of my head and I'm only in my 20s. So I'm trying to take lots of vitamins like omega complexes, vitamin b complex, vit c, chorella, inositol... And I just read on this board the topical retin-A might help. Since no one really has done studies on what helps and not, why not try? I mean if retin-A does reduce the white hair some may just say, oh that was determined and some people develop white hair and it develops very slowly and may not link it to the retin a. I think also that they will develop a cure.. maybe that will be 10-20 years off but eventually. Hair is hair, and to spark hair to grow colour again cannot be too hard to develop, since they can come up with cures for so many other things. The only thing is that scientists are really paying much again to it because obviously they would rather cure things like cancers first. But it would be nice if the top scientists who would really be able to make that cure, would spend a little time on the graying hair issue.

Posted By : gotsomegray - 4/23/2007 6:24 PM
I know some of you wanted me to give you a contact e-mail or phone for Milanitin since I mentioned I would try it.  Well, I finally ordered some today and here is the e-mail that I was given from my order confirmation e-mail:  support@berlin-homeo.com.
 
I am a big fan of homeopathy so this will be interesting.  As always, I will keep everyone informed if I have any success.
 
 

Posted By : brm - 4/24/2007 8:00 PM
anna888 said...
Wow, if not cure your gray hair, at least all these antioxidants, herbs, and vitamins you are consuming will at least make you all very healthy, and you will have excellent skin. I starting to notice a few white roots, mostly at the top of my head and I'm only in my 20s. So I'm trying to take lots of vitamins like omega complexes, vitamin b complex, vit c, chorella, inositol... And I just read on this board the topical retin-A might help. Since no one really has done studies on what helps and not, why not try? I mean if retin-A does reduce the white hair some may just say, oh that was determined and some people develop white hair and it develops very slowly and may not link it to the retin a. I think also that they will develop a cure.. maybe that will be 10-20 years off but eventually. Hair is hair, and to spark hair to grow colour again cannot be too hard to develop, since they can come up with cures for so many other things. The only thing is that scientists are really paying much again to it because obviously they would rather cure things like cancers first. But it would be nice if the top scientists who would really be able to make that cure, would spend a little time on the graying hair issue.


tretinoin (=retin-a= acid vit A) is widely used as a penetration enhancer in hairloss related issues, in combination with minoxidil. Any effect in term of melanin production has never been clearly reported and it is even the first time I hear of it. What we know is that high concentration (0.05 to 0.1%) tretinoin helps fight age spots both on face and hands. As such, it would rather appear as a melanin limiter if anything. This substance is an irritating one and must be used cautiously. Sun exposure has to be limited as well since tretinoin is photosensitizing.

Posted By : dang - 4/25/2007 11:37 AM
has anyone tried or had any success taking forskolin orally?

while we're on the subject, anyone know anything about this:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050208086.html

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 4/25/2007 11:44 AM
hey guys, here is another herbal product for premature gray hair:
 
 
 

Posted By : brm - 4/25/2007 9:07 PM
dang said...
has anyone tried or had any success taking forskolin orally?

while we're on the subject, anyone know anything about this:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050208086.html


Some more about it truly with this:
http://www.google.fr/search?q=%22bruno+bernard%22+%22stephane+commo%22&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&start=0&sa=N
I confess a little laziness to go through all this... But one information is interesting: one of the two guys, named Bruno Bernard, works at..... L'Oreal.

Posted By : cdkona - 4/26/2007 1:00 PM
Has anyone been using tyrosine consistently? I know zorba was supplementing it (topically or orally?) but never mentioned it as a strong contributor. Saw this below, thought it was interesting.

Greying is a progressive process caused by the decrease in activity of an amino acid called tyrosine in the hair bulb. Alterations or degeneration of the nervous supply to the papilla or autoimmune reactions may instigate this gradual change causing dilution of pigment.

Posted By : greyboy - 4/29/2007 10:20 PM
us patent: 20070092894
 
new patent from loreal for a kit for diagnosing a predisposition to grey hair.
 
surely they are on to something!
I still believe we will see a product from them in the next few years that will reverse grey hair.

Posted By : greyboy - 4/29/2007 10:20 PM
us patent: 20070077215
us patent: 20070071699
 
 two more loreal related patents describing methods of reversing grey hair and promoting hair regrowth

Posted By : cdkona - 4/30/2007 11:30 AM
can you provide a link? the number you gave does not come up in google.
thnx.

Posted By : zorba990 - 4/30/2007 2:57 PM
cdkona said...
Has anyone been using tyrosine consistently? I know zorba was supplementing it (topically or orally?) but never mentioned it as a strong contributor. Saw this below, thought it was interesting.

Greying is a progressive process caused by the decrease in activity of an amino acid called tyrosine in the hair bulb. Alterations or degeneration of the nervous supply to the papilla or autoimmune reactions may instigate this gradual change causing dilution of pigment.
Tyrosine is very insoluble so not suitable for topicals. I rarely use it orally.  N-acetyl tyrosine is water soluble but I've not found it makes much of a difference for me.
Neverthless it is required along with copper for the process so tyrosine, copper, histidine might be beneficial supplements if needed.  I do use arginine topically.

Posted By : greyboy - 4/30/2007 5:57 PM

www.uspto.gov go to the site and search the patents with the keyword canities or use the numbers.



Posted By : reverse - 5/3/2007 12:18 PM

Good job Greyboy!

There is some good information in those patent applications.  And the fact that L'Oreal is behind the patents makes it that much more promising.

Now I would love to know a timeline on when this product will be released. I did some digging but came up empty.  I even checked the Food and Drug Administration website to see if the product was awaiting approval but couldn't find anything.  I would love to know if you dig up any more info on this "new product".


Posted By : dang - 5/3/2007 6:41 PM
i have a question for zorba (or anyone else who has had some success reversing gray hair) -- was the texture of the gray hair any different from your normal hair before the reversal? did you notice any change/improvement there? i know gray hair tends to be more coarse than normal hair, and i'm wondering if it's possible to regain a softer texture using the same methods that have shown some success reversing the color. i remember on the hairborn site (they seem to have gone under, by the way - i guess nobody was buying it at $190 a bottle) they had some pictures of guys who had seen almost a full reversal with the texture appearing much more normal after treatment, so i'm thinking that it's not impossible, but like everything else we're dealing with here it seems to be more conjecture than anything else.

Posted By : Rob9737 - 5/3/2007 8:54 PM
Borage Seed Oil, probably from the high concentration of gamma linoleic acid, makes my hair tangibly soft approximately thirty to forty five minutes after ingesting the supplement -- and the effect usually persists for approximately eight hours. I have been amazed by the supplement -- it is one of the very few, other than perhaps LEF's Mitochondrial Optimizer formula, in which I can actually "feel" a positive benefit.

Posted By : dang - 5/7/2007 1:26 PM
found this recently:

http://www.tbfinc.com/blog/archives/6-Protandim.html

anyone have any thoughts about this or heard of this product? just seems like an antioxidant to me .. wondering if the apple cider vinegar has much to do with this.

Posted By : scott73 - 5/16/2007 11:32 AM
hey greyboy i'm having some trouble finding these patents on the site you specified. can you please give me some more details about what section to enter numbers, etc in?

Posted By : cdkona - 5/17/2007 11:07 AM
I am having trouble figuring out the homemade copper solution. I have been using pre-mixed ionic copper solution bought online with a concentration 750 mcg per teaspoon (which it says is about 40% of the daily value for adults so maybe it isn't that strong). I think 150 ppm. I have used this + DMAE H3 topically for over two months (in addition to oral supplements) continuously with no perceivable effect. It may be possible that the ionic solution is too weak?

If I get a bubble machine dLaeritios mentioned what is my copper source? Do I need a dry copper powder to mix in? All the ionic and collodial products appear to be dissovled in water. If you can point me towards a source it would really help.

Besides dLaeritios and zorba, is anyone else using the copper + DMAE H3 topically? Any positive results?

Posted By : dLaertios - 5/17/2007 6:17 PM
Make your own colloidal.
You don't need to disolve something.
Search for instructions on making colloidal or you can see the links I gave in previous posts as to make a similar device like me. Search my previous posts with instructions.
Good luck

Posted By : teengraygal - 5/22/2007 11:34 AM
 
 Hi All,
 
        It is a fact that 95% of the girls (including me) who is suffering from lot of gray hair in their teens and early 20's have abnormally saggy breasts. It has been observed in atleast 12 women who have lot of gray hair in their early 20s and late teens. I just wanted to share with u all this fact if this can give some clue for any pioneer to find out a medicine to get rid of this deadly gray hair. I have been following this thread from a long time and sometimes felt happy to see the contribution and enthusiasm people r showing to fnd out a medicine for gray hair. But these days the posts r getting less and it is making me worry if people stop showing interest.
  
        It is my humble request to LEF to extend research on this gray hair as there r many girls like me suffering from this and lost confidence and hope on life. In teenagers the grief it causes is really unbearable. Sir, pls put in more efforts in this area and find out a medicine to prevent gray hair as soon as possible. We (teenage sufferers of gray hair ) shall be thankful to u.
 
      
 
 

Posted By : DapperDon - 5/24/2007 10:54 AM
As annoying as gray hair can be to most of us the problem is easily solved in 25 minutes with a bottle of hair dye.

What happened to the talk of a product coming out of France to permanently reverse gray hair? Bump for any info on that

Don



  Everything dapperdon says on these forums is for entertainment purposes only. dapperdon is a fictional character. I do not use GH or anabolic steroids and I do not condone their use without being under a doctors supervision.
 
 ** Beware of sources Pming or emailing you to try their services. If a source comes to you, or someone promoting a source does, the chances are very high that you are about to get scammed or sent over to a rip off site. Stay safe.


Posted By : kench - 5/24/2007 11:00 AM
Greyboy - Issued US patent numbers are 7 digits long. Recently issued patents would lead with a 6 or a 7.  Preliminary or Patent Pending numbers will be different.

Posted By : Russell22 - 5/28/2007 8:10 PM
I'm a guy aged 36 and i have about 20% grey in my hair now. I've just ordered reminexs shampoo and am following some tips on here as well. I noticed today that holland and barrat were selling a new pill called "mega vitamins for hair" designed for every aspect of healthy hair.... The main ingredients are..vitimin c, beta-carotene, thiamin, copper, L-cystine, vitamin B12, niacin, biolin, zinc, inisolitol, ribofavin, thiamin, paba.
 
I got some earlier.  You gotta take 3 a day which i'm now doing and i'm also gonna top up my zinc and copper a bit too, hopefully with the reminex shampoo this can help it also.
 
I post any changes i notice.

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 5/28/2007 8:23 PM
"Further study into these mechanisms may soon result in a pharmaceutical based method of treating grey hair rather than only hair dyes."
 

Posted By : Alessio - 5/31/2007 11:58 AM

Hello!

According to Dr. Tobin Loreal patent does mention that early or even normal graying is a polygenic train and so several genes will be involved. This makes a genetic approach difficult.

Others of interest are green tea polyphenols, phytoestrogens, melatonin, and as yet unidentified substances from TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) and Ayurveda.
 
According to Dr. Ming (TCM) the herbs which are good for hair are as follows: gastrodia elata, radix-polygoni multiflori, mulberry fruit, pepared rhizome of rehmania.
 
Has anyone any experience with these herbs?
 
 


Posted By : nota - 6/4/2007 11:10 AM
Ok guys, to my experience and study in TC, there's a magic formula in TCM called Erzhi Wan that is considered to be superior in treating premature graying and hair loss, this formula is comprised of just ligustrum plus eclipta
ligustrum (Nu Zhen Zi) : http://www.dragonherbs.com/herbs/herbs.asp?herb_id=10467
Eclipta (mo han lian) http://www.sandmountainherbs.com/eclipta.html This formula is usually added to (Qibao Meiran Dan) "Seven-Treasure Special Pill for Beautiful hair" for the highest effect of it,
Qibao Meiran Dan: http://www.sacredlotus.com/formulas/formula.cfm/fid/147
Simply you need to only add He-shou-wu (main ingredient of Qibao Meiran Dan) to Erzhi Wan to make it higher in rank for treating your gray hair or hair loss, or can consume modification of Qibao Meiran Dan by adding Erzhi Wan to it, but note that He-shou-wu - ligustrum - eclipta are the main ingredients (meanwhile you can add some black sesame as well) this is going to be use daily for 3 month straight (to see the result), at the meantime you should avoid all chemical shampoos, I would like also encourige you study this page first:
http://www.aubrey-organics.com/about/articles/toxic_shampoos.cfm
and during your treatment by using these magic herbs you must use a 100% herbal shampoo, if you are in west you can go for Lamas herbal shampoos www.lamasbeauty.com , you'll be amazed how even herbal shampoos treat your condition alone or if you are in east you can go for Dr. Zhang guang '101' hair-loss and shampoo products. You see these chinese herbal shampoos alone could treat your hair-loss and gray hair, so do not forget to stop using usual chemical shampoos.
I'm sure you'll be treated, be a believer, you're the son of the nature let it alone treats you. smilewinkgrin
Sorry for my english guys, take care. :-)

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 6/4/2007 10:13:43 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : Alessio - 6/4/2007 12:09 PM
Hi!

Here is one more Loreal product that will combat canities.

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2005065633

I wonder when it will be commercially available?

Alessio

Posted By : cdkona - 6/4/2007 12:11 PM
Is anyone trying copper + DMAE H3 topically besides zorba and dLaertios? Any success? I have been using ionic copper and dmae h3 for 90 days and I only see more gray hair. I have not yet made my own colloidal with the device that dLaertios recommends, but I may switch to that soon.

I do think the supplements have improved the quality but not the color of my hair. If anyone can weigh in with progress or lack thereof, it would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Posted By : flowergirl - 6/4/2007 1:26 PM
yes, ive been using the ionic copper and the DMAE H3 for about the same time, and no obvious change with me either. i thought there may have been about a 10% improvement, but now im not so sure. am in half a mind to stop doing it, but think i'll carry on for a couple more months

any tips from you zorba??

Posted By : dLaertios - 6/5/2007 2:49 PM
The herb Ginkgo biloba seems to help our body to repigment.
http://www.wddty.com/03363800370873899165/the-best-alternative-treatment-for-vitiligo-what-to-do-instead.html
Also gray hair and vitiligo may have some things in common. One of these is the malfunction of melanocytes.

Posted By : Alessio - 6/5/2007 5:23 PM
Hello!

Has anyone access to this article? An unusual case of increased hair pigmentation in previously grey-white hair.

http://www.eblue.org/article/PIIS0190962206033810/fulltext

Best regards,
Alessio.

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/6/2007 6:44 PM
flowergirl said...
yes, ive been using the ionic copper and the DMAE H3 for about the same time, and no obvious change with me either. i thought there may have been about a 10% improvement, but now im not so sure. am in half a mind to stop doing it, but think i'll carry on for a couple more months

any tips from you zorba??
Not sure.  Its possible my other oral or topical ingredients are having more of an effect (see many past posts).  Shouldn't be much longer for a stem cell rejuvenation treatment:
 
 

Posted By : AussieDavid - 6/7/2007 11:28 AM

I have also been applying topical ionic copper with DMAE H3 and PABA for the past few months. It has had no effect whatsoever.

I haved looked into stem cell injections for anti-ageing purposes. I spoke with one of the doctors from BCRO Asia, a Bio-cellular research organisation that does such injections. They said that to date, they have not had any patients who had a reversal of grey hair, but they had also not been targeting that particular part of the body. They said they have had very good results in treating some illnesses which conventional medicine still struggles with.

http://www.bcro-asia.com/home.html


Posted By : dLaertios - 6/7/2007 11:29 AM
Interesting:
http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/transform.jsp?requestURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/albinism.jsp  
The "hairbulb pigmentation test" is used to identify carriers by incubating a piece of the person's hair in a solution of tyrosine, a substance in food which the body uses to make melanin. If the hair turns dark, it means the hair is making melanin (a "positive" test); light hair means there is no melanin. This test is the source of the names of two types of albinism: "ty-pos" and "ty-neg."

Has anyone used tyrosine as a topical?

Also from search I found that UVB radiation increases the population of melanocytes.
Last there is a new experimental hormone named melanotan that some people after one year of use saw reversal of their grey hair to some degree.

Post Edited (dLaertios) : 6/7/2007 10:40:19 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : dLaertios - 6/7/2007 11:31 AM
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4390341.html
Tyrosine again.
 
Not mentioned in these studies is what happens when a cat ingested too much tyrosine, anecdotal evidence suggests that the cat’s coat will darken more than it should (e.g. a chocolate cat may become almost black).  It is worth thinking about.

Post Edited (dLaertios) : 6/7/2007 11:00:20 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : AussieDavid - 6/8/2007 10:43 AM

I have been taking tyrosine for about the last 6 months, but have stopped very recently. It had no noticeable effect on my hair, but it did make my mind very active. In my opinion, I also had an increase in freckles from it. In the past 6 months, I have noticed difficulty reading things at close range. I stopped tyrosine 2 weeks ago and my eysight now seems to be back to normal. Tyrosine just seems too risky for me. I certainly had a more elevated mood while I was taking it, but the eyesight effects really bother me. I did occasionally have difficulty sleeping with my mind being so active.

I may add it to my topical copper solution and see how that goes, although if it's getting absorbed into my body, I assume the effects will be the same.


Posted By : DDye - 6/8/2007 10:44 AM
Tyrosine could enhance the growth of a pre-existing melanoma, so if this runs in anyone's family or if they have a personal history of melanoma, it would be advisable not to use it.

Posted By : jcwst1 - 6/8/2007 12:37 PM

 

*******************************************
I have many dental fillings as well, though 13 of my 31 teeth are now protheses  whose frames are metallic but not made of mercury. I don't plan to replace the      existing fillings since many of the affected teeth might just collapse from the very removing of the filling itself. I supplement both zinc and copper orally. I also take   vit C (only 100 mg daily since it plays a little havoc on my stomach).
*******************************************
 
comments on fillings & vit C --
 
       I had all my silver fillings replaced with resin "white" fillings or bondings -- they are much better because they hold the tooth together (and the reason I started using them is because my teeth with silver fillings were cracking).  Also silver fillings only last a few years, but resin fillings may last a lifetime (they do wear down a bit).  Plus the concern about mercury -- I recommend resin fillings to everyone.
      about vit C -- use Ester-C.  Ester-C is nonacidic and doesn't upset the stomach, plus it's absorbed much better because it is fat-soluble, not just water-soluble like plain vit C.
 
      I have seen my gray hair (sides and front) go from whitish to sort of light bleach-blond over the last 2-3 years. I have been following the advice on the gray hair page at askwaltstollmd.com, which includes magnesium and ester-C (I take about everying else listed in the posts above; caution, excess copper can be toxic).  I'm not sure what's working and neither is Walt Stoll, but one thing he attributes his hair color to is taking lots of ester-C (about 4 grams/day).  I take 3 grams/day.
 
Jim

Post Edited (jcwst1) : 6/8/2007 11:55:59 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : dLaertios - 6/8/2007 6:28 PM
I added tyrosine 500 mg to my daily supplement.

Also today I made my colloidal copper with tyrosine instead of Paba. I tried to taste it and it was a very metallic taste compared to the solution of Paba.  Then I massage it to my scalp. Maybe this solution is better at regaining color to hair.  I think that Paba+copper works but it needs to massage it to your scalp. As I massaged more vigorous the solution to my side hair (I am afraid of hair loss to do so on top) I observed more hair to have reversed than on top. Maybe this is due that more hair fall and the new hair is reversed because of supplements.

current daily supplement:

Morning 4 tablets of brewers yeast, and beta-carotene.
between: colloidal copper+ tyrosine.
After lunch: 4 tablets of brewers yeast, beta carotene, C+B complex , 550 mg pantothenic.
after dinner: 4 brewers yeast.

From my observations B complex is necessary, C is necessary and E is necessary.
When I took vit E and I plucked some gray facial hair these came back with color and stays that way even if I have stopped the supplementation of E. I don't believe that it can be done as easy now that I have changed E with pantothenic. My regimen needs to be improved.

Vit E is a must.

Posted By : cdkona - 6/11/2007 11:30 AM
Thanks for the update dLaertios. I began vit E as well in the last two weeks. I stopped using tyrosine due to the advice from DDye above. So you say you have some reversal; can you estimate a percentage?

Posted By : StarGazer - 6/12/2007 10:42 AM
Someone on AskWaltStollMD dot com claims that Garden of Life Original Perfect Food changed her hair color from grey back to brown. 
 
This is not an endorsement of the product - I've never heard of it, nor do I personally want to try it.
 
But I will ad Ester C to my protocol and see if it helps.

Posted By : dLaertios - 6/12/2007 6:09 PM
I estimate 20% reversal. I was too grey to start with. My head hair was grey not facial. I suppose it was genetic, stress, bad diet and a lot of smoking.  I think the topical needs a lot of massage to be effective but it is difficult to do every day.

Cdkona now that you started supplementation of E make this experiment: Find a white facial hair and pluck it - see after three weeks what happened. If it came back white pluck it again and tell us.  My supplementation of E is 1000 iu once a day. What is yours?

Also I have observed that those who supplement with C don't get grey. From my research found that one reason for grey hair is that kidney and/or liver have too many toxins and need to be flushed so as to be functional again.  I believe the ones who had a lot of C their organs are clear from toxic minerals and more functional.

Last it 's my belief that grey hair isn't the result of reduction of melanocytes - that way black people shouldn't have this problem- but it is the sagging of head skin. That 's why wrinkles and grey hair come together. In case of premature grey I hope it is a simple mineral deficiency or something simple to correct.

Posted By : Tom. - 6/13/2007 11:19 AM
Researchers have hypothesized that grey hair is a precursor to broader, underlying health issues. One biomarker that supports this theory is the amino acid cysteine. Cysteine is the major constituent of keratin, the primary component of hair and also plays a role in melanin production -- hair's pigment.

Cysteine is probably one of the most important amino acids for hair, among other critical bodily functions. It's a sulfur-containing amino acid and found in abundantly in such foods as: egg yolks and also broccoli, brussel sprouts, onions, and garlic -- most foods people avoid or dislike. However heat destroys cysteine and thus is very low in today's modern diet due to processing and cooking. In addition, most people have impaired colon function and unable to properly absorb nutrients from food so supplementing is needed.

In times of stress, malnutrition or disease the body takes cysteine from less important functions and redirects it toward more critical functions of the body -- like producing glutathione and insulin. The first signs of this redirection of cysteine can be seen in the fingernails and hair, where growth is slowed or halted and hair falls out and/or looses pigment. In times of distress, the body can do without proper hair or fingernails but you will die if you don't have proper amounts glutathione or insulin.

Undenatured whey protein contains the richest source of bio-available cysteine known as "cystine" or "bonded cysteine". (two molecules of cysteine linked together by a disulfide bond). This bonded cysteine is not degraded by stomach acids but rather safely transported via the bloodstream directly to the tissues, cells and hair follicles where it is then be utilized to make keratin, melanin, glutathione, among other things.

L-cysteine supplements which are mostly made from discarded human hair, feathers and pig bristles are spontaneously catabolized in the gastrointestinal tract and blood plasma and thus rendered ineffective. Fortunately, we have more appetizing and effective alternatives such as undenatured whey. Also supplemental cysteine is a known excitotoxin. So If you are unable to metabolize cysteine correctly you may be at risk for certain neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, among others. Consumption of foods containing cysteine is not associated with any toxicity.

When you look at the bigger picture you see that cysteine is important to other elements including methionine, taurine, vitamin B6, B12, SAMe, folic acid, among others. Perhaps this shows greying of the hair due to low levels of cysteine is linked to a larger more complex issue of poor diet and undiagnosed, chronic nutrient deficiencies.

Posted By : cdkona - 6/13/2007 4:02 PM
D'Laertios, I take vit E 400 IU twice a day. I drink endless amounts of orange juice so I assume this meets the vit C requirement. I will try the facial hair test.

Thanks for the input on cysteine Tom. I will look for undenatured whey. I exercise a lot so could probably use the protein anyway.

Posted By : Tom. - 6/15/2007 11:01 AM
I wanted to add something to my previous post. The observation of cysteine in the role of grey hair could also demonstrate how the body utilizes nutrients to sustain vital processes from the degenerative effects of aging itself, not just from chronic, self-induced malnutrition. In any regard, I think it does demonstrate that more nutrients are needed as we get older and that the governments "one-size-fits-all" RDA can present a false sense of adequacy.

Posted By : Alessio - 6/15/2007 11:06 AM
It looks like Loreal Paris made some testings according to their newest patent about premature canities.

Patent Number: 20070065389 March 22, 2007

Here is a summary from their patent:

0530] Examples of Compositions TABLE-US-00027 Hair lotion DNA fragment from chromosomal zone included 0.5 g between markers D3S1277 and D3S1285 propylene glycol 20 g 95.degree. ethanol 30 g water qsp 100 g

[0531] This lotion was applied daily to the zones to be treated, preferably to the whole scalp, for at least 10 days and preferably 1 to 2 months.

[0532] A reduction in the appearance of white or gray hairs and re-pigmentation of gray hair was observed. TABLE-US-00028 Treatment shampoo DNA fragment from the chromosomal zone included 1.5 g between the D5S2115 and D5S422 markers polyglyceryl 3-hydroxylarylether 26 g hydroxypropyl cellulose sold as Klucell G by Hercules 2 g preservatives qps 95.degree. ethanol 50 g water qsp 100 g

[0533] This shampoo was used at each wash, leaving it on the hair for about one minute. Long term use, of the order of two months, resulted in progressive re-pigmentation of gray hair. This shampoo could also be used preventatively to retard whitening of the hair. TABLE-US-00029 Treatment gel DNA fragment from the chromosomal zone 0.75 g included between markers D11S898 and D11S925 essential eucalyptus oils 1 g econozole 0.2 g lauryl polyglyceryl 6-cetearyl glycoether 1.9 g preservatives qs carbopol 934P, sold by BF Goodrich Corporation 0.3 g neutralizing agent qs pH 7 water qsp 100 g

[0534] This gel was applied to the zones to be treated twice daily (morning and evening) with a finishing massage. After three months application, repigmentation of hair was observed in the treated zone.

I hope that will be soon available on the market.

Posted By : snoopy - 6/15/2007 11:51 AM
Tom ..... When you look at the bigger picture you see that cysteine is important to other elements including methionine, taurine, vitamin B6, B12, SAMe, folic acid, among others. Perhaps this shows greying of the hair due to low levels of cysteine is linked to a larger more complex issue of poor diet and undiagnosed, chronic nutrient deficiencies.
I had (I had!) a grey area of hair near the ears.
The core of my supplements is a Multi, LEF Super Booster Softgels, omega-3 fatty acids, NAC and vitamin C additional.
After some weeks I detected the grey area becomes smaller, after six months I do not have a single grey hair. The reason for using supplements has nothing to do with grey hair, since I nearly don't care about it. That effect seems to me a "positive side effect" of the supplementation. I do not use copper, PABA, tyrosine.
Regards - Snoopy (63 years)

Posted By : dLaertios - 6/15/2007 6:17 PM
Nice side effect snoopy.
Omega-3 has been linked to reverse grey hair. Also your multi will provide most minerals to you. It seems promising.

I believe that my grey hair started to lose ground. I made some changes and I believe they affected too.

First of all my topical now is tyrosine-colloidal copper 2 days, one day Paba - colloidal. The solution of tyrosine colloidal is interesting blue!!! Its taste is very metallic.

I added again E 1000 iu. Stopped pantothenic. From a scientific site read that a compination of beta-carotene , lycopene, E and C triggers your melanocyte to work without sun exposure. I only need to add lycopene to my morning drink which is 30 mg beta carotene, E 1000 iu and I try to gulp them with a glass of juice and also to have at least one fruit.

I try to have a 10 min sun exposure during midday as there is UV-B and that triggers the regeneration and increase of population of melanocytes.

Also I try to exercise every day - running. After running there is sweat on my scalp and its color is red due to increased blood flow. This help to get rid of toxins and to feed the folicles.

I will add iodine - lugols (already started with caution).

I will try to detox myself with a natural remedy - liver, kidney etc.

Let s see how will it go.

Anyone else have a positive feedback? Or something that didn't work?

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/17/2007 6:54 PM
snoopy said...
Tom ..... When you look at the bigger picture you see that cysteine is important to other elements including methionine, taurine, vitamin B6, B12, SAMe, folic acid, among others. Perhaps this shows greying of the hair due to low levels of cysteine is linked to a larger more complex issue of poor diet and undiagnosed, chronic nutrient deficiencies.
I had (I had!) a grey area of hair near the ears.
The core of my supplements is a Multi, LEF Super Booster Softgels, omega-3 fatty acids, NAC and vitamin C additional.
After some weeks I detected the grey area becomes smaller, after six months I do not have a single grey hair. The reason for using supplements has nothing to do with grey hair, since I nearly don't care about it. That effect seems to me a "positive side effect" of the supplementation. I do not use copper, PABA, tyrosine.
Regards - Snoopy (63 years)
Super Booster contains copper as chlorophyllin.  Enough so that there is a warning for people with Wilson's.  I've found both NAC and taurine to be very beneficial at thickening and reducing fallout (to near zero).  I suspect synergy with Vitamin C.
 
 

Posted By : brm - 6/18/2007 1:06 PM
NAC? i.e N-acethyl carnitine or N-acetyl cysteine? Both are hyped regarding hairloss problems.

Posted By : Tom. - 6/18/2007 2:51 PM
Oh yes, I don't doubt they are hyped. Supplement companies love to do that once they get ahold of a study. Consuming or doing one thing is not going to give a person back a thick head of perfect hair. There are many things involved in grey hair and hair loss. Cysteine's role is just one of probably many.

Posted By : zorba990 - 6/18/2007 3:16 PM
dLaertios said...
Interesting:
http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/transform.jsp?requestURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/albinism.jsp  
The "hairbulb pigmentation test" is used to identify carriers by incubating a piece of the person's hair in a solution of tyrosine, a substance in food which the body uses to make melanin. If the hair turns dark, it means the hair is making melanin (a "positive" test); light hair means there is no melanin. This test is the source of the names of two types of albinism: "ty-pos" and "ty-neg."

Has anyone used tyrosine as a topical?

Also from search I found that UVB radiation increases the population of melanocytes.
Last there is a new experimental hormone named melanotan that some people after one year of use saw reversal of their grey hair to some degree.
If the plucked hair still contains the root with the melanocytes then perhaps this
experiment might work on the bare end of the dead hair.  And it might reveal if the cause of the lighter hair is missing/dead melanocytes which topicals would probably not help.  Its not going to suddenly turn the whole dead hair pigmented.
 
It appears that if one's hair is red or blonde then tyrosine might not be the right topical or might need to be combined with NAC/glutathione.  It looks like it is very dose sensitive, though and can inhibit the process at higher dosages.  Whether or not this is highly regulated in VIVO remains to be seen, I think.
 
As much as excessive tyrosine stimulation might be best avoided by those with predisposition to melanoma, I would counter that maintaining proper function through adequate stimulation would likely be preventative if mitochondrial function is maintained.   
 
 
 


Posted By : snoopy - 6/18/2007 3:22 PM
brm said...
NAC? i.e N-acethyl carnitine or N-acetyl cysteine? Both are hyped regarding hairloss problems.
NAC = N-acetyl cysteine

Posted By : dLaertios - 6/18/2007 6:17 PM
I believe that there is a relation to moles and grey hair. Both are dysfunction of melanocytes.
 
As I have read from my search a daily dosage of antioxidant supplement (eg 4 gr C, 1 gr E and multivitamin/mineral) help you not to go grey.
 
Also the same supplement have said to restore your grey hair on about 2 years.
 
Recently I have read that melanoma, moles etc don't come from sun exposure alone but in addition from lack of antioxidants to your body. If you take high doses of antioxidants it is very difficult to sunburn even if you have fair skin.
 
So I believe that without proper amounts of antioxidants to your body your hair melanocytes start to disfunction. Also you scalp skin start to sag and maybe although you make melanin can't go to the proper layer of hair.
 
So as far as I know it is difficult to take supplements and get rid a mole, maybe the same goes for grey hair. Maybe we need a proper topical to resolve the problem to the scalp and then with our antioxidant supplement help to maintain this function.
 
In conclusion:
 
If someone's grey is at start the best think he can do is antioxidant supplement. This way he can save the other.  If your grey is a lot maybe you need a proper topical for reversal.

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 6/18/2007 5:20:53 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : s6 - 6/18/2007 7:38 PM
My hair has been turning gray since I was in my my late teens...it's mostly gray now...say 95%...sides are white...I'm not that old...this is genetic.  I'm Irish and it runs in my family...lots of hair but it's gray/white...it's certainly not from lack of antioxidants as I have been a loyal and practicing advocate of LE applications and research since I was 19, some 20++ years ago.  I have recently run into something that may or may not work. I will pass along that info as it it develops...


Posted By : dLaertios - 6/21/2007 10:42 AM
Yes, with small steps I understand the problem of grey hair better.

S6 I know you refer to Melanotan. I hope this works and soon be availiable (and not dangerous).

This hormone boosts your melanin production. This can be done and with other methods as I said antioxidants and sun exposure, and copper with tyrosine. There is plenty of sun here to experiment.

From all that research I know more than doctors or students of chemistry. The topical solution is of great importance. I found a new patent that although is for tanning seems promising. Read the examples : Fairy skinned persons had a tan without UV exposure. Boosted their melanin production (in a way Melanotan does). Afterall I think it is peptides that solution too.

Need to further improve my chemical knowledge.
http://www.suntanscience.com/uspatent5698184.html
Tyrosine + copper hope to work similarly.
"These results indicated that the peptone-copper cream could induce melanogenesis in the absence of sunlight or ultraviolet radiation."
Anyone that will try this?
 
PS.
As I search for copper sulphate I saw that its color is blue. Amazing my copper -tyrosine topical is blue as well. Paba+ copper was green.

Post Edited (dLaertios) : 6/21/2007 9:48:42 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : brm - 6/21/2007 5:51 PM
From the ingredient list, can this be anything good?
http://www.keracyte.com/pages/purchase/

Posted By : lad - 6/21/2007 5:52 PM
http://www.keracyte.com/

It's derived from a healing protein sold in DermaLastyl-βx.
(which has some legit origins
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/0127skin27.html )

http://www.keracyte.com/pages/testimonials/

"...your new product [Keracyte] is changing all that. I am actually growing white hairs with black roots in my temple areas where I have been applying your product...."

http://www.keracyte.com/pages/how_keracyte_works/

"Who would have thought a simple scalp conditioner could restore your hair’s original color while also making it thicker and stronger? ...Thanks to Keracyte’s follicle stimulating component, your hair follicles become stronger and more resilient, allowing them to better function as intended...In response to Keracyte, these (melanocyte) cells begin to once again produce your natural hair color..."

http://www.keracyte.com/pages/ingredients/

contains:
Matrixyl 3000
Argireline
Hyaluronic acid
Tocopheryl acetate
Provitamin B
Tropoelastin
Germaben
ProliSel

And now, for the hard part:

a single 1.7-oz tube goes for...
$160 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(might be worth it for greying, receding temples, tho').

Posted By : Meldyweldy - 6/22/2007 6:24 PM

Hi

Hello, i am new to the forum. 

My gray hair has increased tremendously and I spray my hair with boiled sage water.  1/2 cup sage to 2 cups of water.  Boil, Cool, spray on hair after shampoo, let dry.  I don't rinse it anymore like other do.  It makes the hair turn dark quickly.  Spray on the roots and the next growth will be dark hair like your original color.

It does not happen overnight.  So be patient.

Melyweldy

 

 


Posted By : DDye - 6/22/2007 6:25 PM
Thanks. Doesn't this just color the hair?

Posted By : Meldyweldy - 6/25/2007 10:18 AM
I am not sure if it is temporary color. I really don't know how it works. The hair that has turned dark got darker when i applied it on my whole head for a couple of weeks. Now i just apply it on the roots and the new growth turned to my original hair color. However, i learned from someone that after she stopped for a couple of weeks, her hair started getting white again at the roots...obviously the new hair growth. But when she sprayed again, it got dark again. To me, this is safer than the commercial hair dyes. It is a very natural way of coloring one's hair.

Posted By : jcwst1 - 6/25/2007 10:35 AM
brm said...
NAC? i.e N-acethyl carnitine or N-acetyl cysteine? Both are hyped regarding hairloss problems.
     NAC which is labeled as such (e.g. swansonvitamins.com) is N-acetylcysteine; its main use is it raises glutathione levels.  I've read comments about long term use changing other nutrient levels (I forget what) so I take a break now and then.
 
     I think N-acetyl carnitine is really N-acetyl L-carnitine, which is more commonly called acetyl L-carnitine; it is great if you have sleep apnea (I do), it increases oxygen supply to the cells, so I take one when I wake up in the morning feeling oxygen-deprived, and feel better in minutes.  Didn't know it was hyped for hairloss. 


Posted By : reverse - 6/25/2007 2:00 PM
Is anyone gonna take the chance and shell out the $160 for the Keracyte-b?
If so, please keep me posted.   
I've tried almost everything out there(Melancor, Recolour, HGH growth hormone, Paba, blackstrap molasses, copper, vitamin E, Ho She Wu, Hair Plus Vitamins, Chinese ginger root and many more products) without any success; none of these worked! So don't waste your time and money on any of the above.
 
So you can see why I'm skeptical. Companies like Melancor probably made millions all because of their financial means to market a false product.
 
I can't see myself ordering any other products unless I hear something in this forum to say a product is legit and reversal was achieved.
 
I'm personally waiting for the big breakthrough from a big company like L'oreal but I'm getting frustrated waiting.
 
I can go back ten years or more, even as far back as 1994, where experts were claiming that they've stumbled upon "this or that" that will lead to reversing gray hair. One of the leading experts, Dr Des Tobin, claimed in a '97 article that something they stumbled upon should lead to a cure for gray hair. But he said the cure is at least a few years away. Well it's ten years and...

Posted By : dLaertios - 6/25/2007 3:36 PM
Yes,
I don't think that it is so easy to reverse your grey hair.  My opinion is that you need a lot of antioxidants to prevent and to delay further damage to your follicles and a topical application of something that will help with reversal.

Also there is some patents that they speak about melanogenesis. The easier to understand was the one I gave with copper+ peptone protein, and the other is with bimatoprost.

Try to clean your body of the toxins. It will take time.  I have seen a reversal of a good amount of hairs, so it is possible. With a little luck maybe I achieve a full reversal.

Supplements:
Beta-carotene, vit E 1000 iu, Mega B+C (1000 mg C + B complex), tyrosine 500 mg, brewers yeast, 2 teaspoons acv.
Topical:
Tyrosine + copper+ 1 teaspoon acv.

Posted By : Alessio - 6/26/2007 10:47 AM
Hello!

I have contacted Dr. Ming-Traditional China Medicine.

That was his reply:
We have treated some patients who have grey hair with good result. Our experts and I will do our best to help you. If you do not mind, we will prescribe the proper formula for you and make it into 20 days herbal tea for you. The 20 days herbal tea is US$180.00 in all.

IS IT WORTH TO TRY??

Posted By : dLaertios - 6/26/2007 5:48 PM
Certainly no.
It isn't possible to reverse grey hair in 20 days. I am trying to resolve it with moderate results for over a year.

It is a complicated problem. You have to see it holistic. If you are going to spend 180 $ try this instead http://www.keracyte.com/ and tell us what happens.
It has better chances to work as it works topically.

Anyone with success story or something that didn't work?

Posted By : cdkona - 6/27/2007 5:18 PM
Melanotan or something similar looks to be created/tested by clinuvel (Australia), www.clinuvel.com. the basis is a more potent signal peptide.  Although I am not sure signaling a colorless hair is going to do much if their is an underlying problem. 
 
(Oddly enough, Melanotan II or bremelanotide is being tested as a sexual dysfunction drug by a company called Palatin technologies in NJ.)
 
Below are the details from clinuvel regarding their product:
Alpha-Melanocyte stimulating hormone (VIEW IMAGE-MSH) is a naturally occurring peptide hormone which is released by cells in the skin in response to the stimulation of ultraviolet radiation (UVR) from the sun. MSH has a very short half life (seconds) in the blood stream but does reach and stimulate other skin cells (melanocytes) which in turn produce and release melanin, a dark brown pigment. Melanin is considered to be photoprotective . . .
 

Posted By : goliath - 6/28/2007 1:42 PM
Hi, I've been following this thread with much interest. However, I don't have any to contribute to stop gray hairs. Sorry, guys. However, I have this question. Can vitamins or any other methods(have work on some people) be totally effective while currently using hair dye to color my grays. Hope somebody can help.

Posted By : Alessio - 6/29/2007 10:22 AM
goliath said...
Hi, I've been following this thread with much interest. However, I don't have any to contribute to stop gray hairs. Sorry, guys. However, I have this question. Can vitamins or any other methods(have work on some people) be totally effective while currently using hair dye to color my grays. Hope somebody can help.
According to dr. Desmond Tobin, one of the leading experts in grey hair, there is  no successful treatment exept dyes yet commercially available.

Posted By : Alessio - 7/2/2007 9:47 AM
I haven't found anything about Melanotan (Clinuvel) and grey hair. Is not this only for skin pigmentation???

Posted By : flowergirl - 7/2/2007 10:59 AM
"Supplements:
Beta-carotene, vit E 1000 iu, Mega B+C (1000 mg C + B complex), tyrosine 500 mg, brewers yeast, 2 teaspoons acv.
Topical:
Tyrosine + copper+ 1 teaspoon acv."

hey dLaertios

seems like youre program is really workin 4 u. have u stopped using the paba with the copper topically? how long have u been using the tyrosine? and in what form do u use it in your topical?

and zorba, you say tyrosine may be useless in red/blonde hair.

am getting a lil confused! i tried the copper/paba topical for 3 months and there were no great changes, but i think there was some reversal.

what do you guys think is the optimum solution? which topical and which supplements?

i already take flax seeds, fish oils, b complex and plenty of raw fresh organic food daily, along with a blue/green algae green drink daily.

also what is acv?

thanx!

Posted By : westcoast - 7/2/2007 11:30 AM
I see that a few of you are thinking about trying melanotan. I have been taking melanotan2 (MT2) for 30 days so far. I do have a slightly darker tan and darker freckles but haven't seen any change to my greys yet. My facial hair seems much darker now though. I'll let you know if anything changes

BTW. My wife is taking it also with no changes to her greys either.

:)

Post Edited (westcoast) : 7/2/2007 2:23:53 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : brm - 7/2/2007 3:51 PM
acv = apple cider vinegar. Been using some toplically for the last year or so (rinsing off) and no result. My quest, with the huge number of supplements and topicals I use, is also fruitless.

Posted By : DDye - 7/2/2007 4:02 PM
info on tyrosine http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=1057212&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0007114507694458

Posted By : lad - 7/3/2007 9:58 AM
Keracyte club, anyone?

Maybe some of us could split a tube to each use on small graying areas (temples, face hair). Then we could compare the results here. We could also decide if we would want to collectively get a refund if disappointed by it. If there is an established, trusted board member here up for overseeing the money-gathering and distribution, I'd be up for it.

It's funny to hear so many "cures" shared here. There is likely more than one cause of gray hair (esp. premature). And each cause may have a chain of events involved (tho' the latest I heard involves stem cell decline). So a particular nutrient or remedy may throw a monkey-wrench somewhere along a particular person's gray hair process, but not another's.

I'm giving the sage rinse a shot. I think I'm seeing a slight blonding of some gray, but nothing definite (yet).

Posted By : Alessio - 7/3/2007 10:08 AM
Hello dLaertios!

I have a question for you.

I am at the beginnig of the greying process. So I have taken your advice about antioxidants. I take daily 2 pills with these ingredients: vitamin B1 2 mg, B2 2,4 mg, B6 2,7 mg, B12 5,4 up, B5 8,5 mg, zinc 22 mg, iron 9,8 mg baker 1,5 mg. Then vitamin E 30 mg, vit C 120 mg, selen 70 up. omega-3 240 mg. Is that enough or I should take more?

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/3/2007 3:15 PM
Alesio,
I have heard that 4 gr C, 1 gr E and a multimineral can make the changing after a period of 2 years.

As for my regimen there is sure a lot of improvement but I still dye my hair. The grey are more than colored. Also the reversal is more at my sides and I believe is from the massage of copper as it is more vigorous there. I am not afraid of hair loss there. At least greying is definately halted.

Something else I was a heavy smoker with very bad diet for many years, maybe the change of my lifestyle gave a boost to my health. Also I am less stressed than I used to be.

Still searching and experimenting.

My observations was:
When on 1000 mg=1 gr E I plucked white facial hair came back colored.
Coloidal copper + Paba works as topical. You have to massage to your scalp.

Posted By : Alessio - 7/5/2007 3:26 PM
Thank you dLaertios. I will take your advice.

Maybe it will to work. Because I am trying to live really healthy. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruits and I do not smoke and trying to reduce stress in my life.

As well I really hope that we will see a cure from any cosmetic or pharmaceutic company soon. There are many company trying to developt that cure (Unilever, P&G, Loreal, ...)

And we can not forget the wonders of competition, well in this case at least. If they don't come out with it first and one of their competitors does they are screwed. On the other hand if they get there first, they make bank and destroy the other company's market.

Posted By : teengraygal - 7/5/2007 3:32 PM
Hi All,
 
     I believe copper plays a vital role in reversing the gray hair. Because i have been observing that people (especially women) who have lot of gray hairs in teens have also got most of the copper deficiency symptoms among which the major apparent one is extremely saggy breasts in women apart from short of breath, etc.
 
   I strongly believe whatever Zorba claimed had worked for him would really work. I couldn't try it because i didn't find any Indian source to purchase colloidal copper. But i am just dying to purchase it from any of Indian source and try it asap, because i strongly believe it will surely work for me at least to the extent of 50%.
 
Zorba,
       I am aware u achieved more than 95% reversal. Could u pls tell me how much of gray hair u had got before u started taking the supplements/topicals? Based on your answer i just wanted to estimate how much reversal can happen in my case.
 
 -teengraygal
          

Posted By : august - 7/5/2007 3:35 PM
check out the post just above gray hair entitled L'oreal - sounds VERY promising for gray hair!

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/5/2007 9:51 PM
Teengraygal,
There other thinks to help yourself.
First copper is absorbed and stored to your liver. Maybe your liver has a lot of toxins and is disfunctional. Search for remedies to clean your body of toxins, heavy metals (like mercury from amalgam fillings) and be functional again.

Then you can take a food which is black strap molasses with lot of copper and other trace minerals.

Last you can make your own cheap colloidal copper and massage your scalp with it, it will absorb the copper.

Loreal and other big companies - I don't think that they have any intention to lose their profits finding a simple solution to grey hair. I have worked making new products and the scope is to have profits periodically from a product. Not just to sale something and stop.

I said before that if there is a simple supplement eg tyrosine for topical that works they will lose their sleep and will make every effort to make it illegal. It is illegal to be healthy.

Posted By : Alessio - 7/6/2007 11:13 AM
I do not think that they will lose their profit, because women will dye their hair even if they are not grey. But I think if they will release something on the market it will not be permanent, you will have to use it for a long period of time.  On the other hand pharmaceutic companies do not make profit from dyes, so perhaps they are our genie in the bottle.

Posted By : brm - 7/6/2007 5:39 PM
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=1057212&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0007114507694458

"The low root:tip ratio during malnutrition presumably arises because the tips reflect prior hair growth during ‘normal’ nutrition and the roots reflect hair growth during malnutrition;"

Hey, this sentence has come unnoticed to most of you it seems. But, if trustworthy, it points to an important clue: hair color is synched with hair growth. It means that no hair can be repigmented as such. It can only grow darker...
Well, since this article is poorly backed up by its very writers, I don't know what level of trust may be accorded to this... To those of us who had some success (dLaertios, Zorba), do you believe you grew darker hair or did the existing shafts get repigmented?

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/7/2007 3:26 PM
The existing shafts got repigmented.
 
I read a post and found something that hadn't took into account:
 
Eugenol (the principal active ingredient in cloves and clove Oil) (applied topically to the scalp) has been demonstrated to restore hair color (and may therefore be useful for the treatment of gray hair).
Has anyone tried to massage his scalp with this oil?
Sounds very interesting. I used castor oil but no improvement.
 
My repigmented hair seems more and more (I believe maybe 30% reversal) but I wish to find something that works faster.
 
Also I found this (in previous posts)
 
 
The price is very cheap $35 for a three month supply.
Have anyone tried?

Post Edited (dLaertios) : 7/8/2007 1:21:21 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : Russell22 - 7/9/2007 11:20 AM
i've posted here before. I've been taking topically Reminex's grey hair shampoo and orally ive been taking Mega vitamin gel (1tab) Holland and barratts mega hair vitamin (3 tabs) brewers yeast (3 tabs) and 1 omega 3 tab daily and sometimes 1 cat's claw.
 
I've been using for 1 month noew and haven't noticed a difference but understand it may take months to see results,so i will persevere.
 
I might try the collidial copper and poss mix some of it with the shampoo? Has anyone tried this?

Posted By : Slider - 7/9/2007 11:21 AM
Sent a PM to author of previous post on Pepperie. She said she thought it initially worked but had to return to the hair dye after a time.

Posted By : Alessio - 7/9/2007 11:31 AM
Leading Japanese cosmetics company Shiseido announced on July 23, 2004 that its research group, working in collaboration with Kirin Brewery, has discovered a unique property of an extract of hops. The research shows the hops extract helps activate the melanocyte cells that generate hair pigment. Furthermore, the hops can control microphthalmia-associated transcription factor (MITF), a gene involved in the activity of melanocyte cells.

Based on these results, Shiseido plans to introduce new hair care products.

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/9/2007 11:34 AM
I sent PM to the poster who claimed that Pepperie started to work but told me that eventually wasn't effective.

Bought some clove oil today. 10ml bottle for 6 euros. I will apply it to a patch of my head and see what happens. I already started and one drop is very strong maybe I have to dilute it. I felt the patch to burn.

I also added two drops to my topical. Lets see.

Posted By : teengraygal - 7/11/2007 11:17 AM

Hi dLaertious,

      Thanks for your reply. I would like to get rid of the toxins if any r present in my body, but i have no clue how to go about it because i don't have any knowledge about the chemicals and all. Could u pls tell me how do i make my own colloidal copper? I wanted to try this. I am glad to hear u r achieving a good amount of reversal as u have now extended the hope of desperate people like me. Congratulations too for u :)

   Is Blackstrap mollasses copper rich diet? What do u think is the major cause for ur reversal. Is it topical solution?

 Thanks

 teengraygal



Posted By : dLaertios - 7/11/2007 2:19 PM
Thanks teengraygal,
I will provide a simple remedy for thinks that worked for me and I believe they 'll work for most of you. I'll try to keep it simple.

1st factor) Super Mega B+C:
Vit C:1000 mg,
B1: 39 mg, B2: 50 MG, B3 :50, B6 41, Follacin: 400 mcg, B12:5 0mcg, biotin: 0.05, B5: 50, choline:50, inositol:50,PABA: 50.

Take two of them. Best is to take extra 1000 mg with bioflavonoids. Basically is Vit C and B complex. I recommend 3 gr C daily and B complex 100.

I believe vit C was major factor (intuition) - I think it cleared my kidneys (maybe my liver too) from heavy metals and helped my body to use minerals was starving for.

B complex - everywhere you look for grey hair remedy you find B vitamins. Maybe they play a major factor for absorbing copper. Take it.

2nd factor) Vit E. I use 1000 mg daily. It works.

3rd factor) Topical application of colloidal copper.

4th factor) Brewers yeast : Take 8 pills daily. B vitamins again but they have proteins and useful metals as well.

Cost:
2 pills B+C daily: 26 euros
1 pill E 1000mg: 20 euros
colloidal copper: ----
Brewers yeast : 10 euros
All these are costs for a month : 56 euros

It is not over yet. You need and a good multimineral that will provide copper. That is your choice.  I don't use one insted I use 2 tablespoon of acv and some himallayan sea salt to take minerals. Cost about 6 euros.

Start with that remedy and see what happens. There many other thinks that need to do as well. Get rid of toxins and help your body. Thats another story. Start reading about liver flush and other useful thinks http://curezone.com/forums/ .

Please don't ask me about colloidal copper. I have posted instructions with previous posts.  Don't expect with one day to reverse your hair. It will take a lot of time. Give the remedy a try for two months and lets see what happens.

I am still searching and experimenting.

Posted By : teengraygal - 7/12/2007 10:51 AM
 
 Thanks for the useful infm dlaertios. I will try the recommended supplements and see how it works in my case.

Posted By : Alessio - 7/12/2007 11:06 AM
Para-aminobenzoic acid

PABA, or para-aminobenzoic acid, is one of the nutrients the body uses to make the anti-stress B vitamins, especially vitamin B5, which has, in turn, been linked with slowing down the rate of both greying and hair loss. It is only suitable when greying is caused either by stress or a nutritional deficiency that the PABA could correct.
PABA was initially used for the treatment of a condition called vitiligo, where patches of skin turn chalky white. Some people with this condition also have prematurely grey hair. The researchers found that a very small percentage of patients responded so well to a combined dose of PABA and magnesium that their skin and hair colour returned to normal.

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/12/2007 2:55 PM
Teengraygal,
don't forget to massage colloidal copper to your scalp. Do them all and tell us what happens.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 7/13/2007 11:06 AM
While the copper theory may work for some people, in my case I believe it's the incorrect remedy. I have been applying a topical forumla to my hair for the past 5 months. It consists of ionic copper, PABA, DMAE h3. Without question, the greying has increased in the areas where it has been applied.
 
I have been participating in this forum for over 18 months and trying suggested remedies. One of the things that I did do was stop taking my daily bio-zinc tablet and start taking the LEF 9/day 'Mix' tablets with 1 mg copper. I have been taking the LEF tablets for over a year now. Again, without question, my greying has gotten worse in the past 12 months, and probably at a more accelerated rate than previously.
 
What I am now starting to think is that perhaps I have a zinc deficiency, not copper. I have had my zinc and copper levels checked and at the time I was resupplementing with zinc at approximately 65 mg/day. The zinc:copper ratio was 11:12, with the minimum 'normal' level being 10. So, despite heavily supplementing with zinc at the time, I was still only just in the 'normal' range. The correct zinc:copper ratio should be 1:1.2 (ie copper 20% more than zinc).
 
In the past 18 months, there have been occasions where I have found a few hairs that genuinely have reversal. The first time that happened was about 3 months after I started taking 'He Shou Wu' and Cat's Claw. At that stage, I was not taking the LEF 'Mix' with copper, nor any other remedies. The hairs definitely had a grey tip and a black base. I did find a few more later in the year, but nothing for the past 7 months. I therefore believe that reversal can only occur with regrowth and will appear as darker roots. I don't believe the hair that has already grown can be re-pigmented, so for those who are expereincing this, I am of the opinion that the topical solution you are applying is just colouring your existing hair.
 
My regime includes:
 - SODzyme
 - Liquid Cat's Claw
 - He Shou Wu (I've stopped and restarted this),
 - PABA (in the LEF Mix tablets. I was taking additional PABA supplementation but stopped)
 - CoQ10
 - Tryosine ( I was taking a lot of this, but stopped because I believe it was affecting my vision. When I stopped, the vision problem stopped. I'm now taking a tiny dosage of Tyrosine - approx 1/3 gram/day)
 - LEF 'Mix' 9/day which has among other things;
                          

Vitamin A (as 20% Betatene® D. salina natural beta-

5000 IU

carotene with mixed carotenoids1 and 80% acetate)

 

Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid, calcium ascorbate, ascorbyl

2000 mg

palmitate, magnesium ascorbate, niacinamide

 

ascorbate, and acerola juice powder)

 

Vitamin D3 (as cholecalciferol)

800 IU

Vitamin E (as D-alpha tocopheryl succinate)

400 IU

Thiamine (vitamin B1) (as thiamine HCl)

125 mg

Riboflavin (vitamin B2)

50 mg

(with 2 mg riboflavin 5’ phosphate coenzyme)

 

Niacin (vitamin B3) (as 53% niacinamide, 38% niacin,

190 mg

9% niacinamide ascorbate)

 

Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine HCI with 2.5 mg pyridoxal 5’

100 mg

phosphate coenzyme)

 

Folic acid

800 mcg

Vitamin B12 (as 42% cyanocobalamin,

600 mcg

42% hydroxylcobalamin, 16% ion exchange resin)

 

Biotin

3000 mcg

Pantothenic acid

600 mg

(as D-calcium pantothenate with 5 mg pantethine)

Zinc [as methionate (OptiZinc®3), zinc succinate]

35 mg

Copper (as copper bisglycinate chelate)

1 mg

para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA)

200 mg

I also use chemical free shampoo and conditioner with B vitamins and Omega oils.

Frankly, I'm not sure where to go from here. I'm going try taking some additional zinc, stopping the topical copper solution, finding a better 'He Shou Wu' brand, and I've also just started trying out the 'sage' theory. I simmered 1 cup of sage in 2 cups of water for 45 mins, then let sit for an hour. I'm misting it on to my hair every day. I figure if it will at least 'dye' the hair, then that's a good non-chemical way to cover things up until Loreal or someone else find a genuine fix.

For detox, I've just finished a 'Waiora Zeolite' detox. Can't say that I have noticed any difference in how I feel or how my skin looks.

The other thing that I looked in to was the possiblilty of getting stem cell injections to reverse grey hair. I spoke to one of the doctors at BCRO asia, and they said they have not noticed any hair colour reversal or regrowth with the stem cell injections they offer.

Any other suggestions on what I should do? I feel like I've tried just about everything. What is disappointing is the fact the the greying continues and at a rapid rate. Like I said, the only realy success I had was early in the process when I was just on He Shou Wu and cat's claw. I've posted this link a year ago, but one of the hairs with reversal is shown in the following link. Look closely at the particular hair and you can see the grey tip and the dark shaft.

http://www.fotothing.com/AussieDavid/photo/start=5

 


Posted By : dLaertios - 7/13/2007 7:38 PM
Hi Aussiedavid,

We signed almost at the same time to the forum.

Never said that a grown hair can be repigmented for the whole shaft. I couldn't see that because I dye them and also I don't believe that is possible to work this way. But I have seen hair that was gray at the top and colored at the root.

I know how you feel about grey hair and how disappointing is not to make an improvement.

I have a partial reversal and it helps me a lot and I believe that full reversal is possible. The only think that concerns me is the time frame. I keep on experimenting on new things and observe the outcome.

I know that your regimen has a lot of antioxidants. But from my observations
1) E is a must - I use one gram daily. When I stopped E and replace it with pantothenic 55 0mg saw no difference and I thought things went worst.
As I already took pantothenic from B+C (100 mg daily) I went back to vit E supplementation. E is a must.

2) Maybe I take more B complex than you. I take all the B complex from B+C and also take 8-12 brewers yeast daily.

3) I take acv which has all minerals and helps with absorbtion. Now I started and the Himalayan salt, and some other things which I don't like to tell right know as I haven't test them.

Anyone who intends to follow the regimen I suggest please give feedback in forum. Also the remedy will help your body in a lot of ways so it is not a waste of money you will have a health benefit after all but I believe that if you do all 4 things (5 with mineral supplementation) you will see an improvent in two months - less grey hair.

After all the regimen I suggest has 17 month experience with trial and error. I don't made that out of my mind.

Especially with E, I had cut it for a matter of time and saw that my progress wasn't as I wanted it.  The very good results came after I first added supplementation of B+C.  Colloidal copper is very helpful. The reversal is better at the sides where I massage it more vigorously.

So I didn't made the regimen from my mind and also lost a lot of time to come to that conclusions. So anyone who intends to use it let's give feedback.

Posted By : zorba990 - 7/13/2007 7:42 PM
Just Some thoughts:

I've never considered hair tests for mineral analysis as all that accurate.

Minimally, the hanging, dead hair is subject to a number of potential external influences as to its composition (shower water, any topicals you are using, hair gel, shampoo, etc). For the purpose of determining levels of toxic minerals this might not be so bad. But to use it to determine how much copper, zinc, or whatever is in the rest of your body tissues seems quite error prone to me. (Yes, I've read through lots of material on both sides of the argument but I remain unconvinced the tests are reliable for pinpointing mineral deficiencies).

As mentioned previously, some people may be more dependent upon the
glutathione pathway than the tyrosine pathway for their coloring.  In this case adding N-acetyl cysteine (I take 6 NAC sustain a day) might be beneficial to add in addition to (possibly) applying glutathione topically (which I do not do, but if I did I would use the reduced kind).

I don't see people protecting/enhancing the mitochondrial and nitric acid pathways
much in their listed supplements. MEO, berry extracts, and arginine orally and topically might help make a difference. If there is no blood flow to the area then all the other nutrients you are taking might not be getting to the places you want them to be. Same goes for exercise. ATP topically does seem to help growth for me.

Many people ask the same questions over and over that have been answered many times in this same thread. Every once in a while someone's $100+ miracle cream comes up, and much as we all hope one of these things will work, they just never seem to - certainly not as reliably as nutritional things do.

Caveat Emptor.

Stem cells and all that have great potential - but they should be YOUR stem cells being used, not someone or something else's without ALOT of immune testing
(unless you'd like to become a Chimera at best, or suffer as your immune system attacks the foreign cells at worst). This (research) is obviously being slowed down by moral issues which may become moot when better methods of replicating your own stem cells are found.

Meanwhile, meathods of increasing your own stem cell production were covered in this and other threads.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 7/14/2007 3:03 PM
Zorba990 said...
Stem cells and all that have great potential - but they should be YOUR stem cells being used, not someone or something else's without ALOT of immune testing
(unless you'd like to become a Chimera at best, or suffer as your immune system attacks the foreign cells at worst). This (research) is obviously being slowed down by moral issues which may become moot when better methods of replicating your own stem cells are found.

The stem cells they use are from rabbits clinically bred and isolated from the rest of the world. They have never had any problem with rejection by the body. There is more information on their website and I have spoken to my doctor at length about the procedures. He has patients with chronic illnesses whom he has sent to have the injections and the results has been impressive. I also know that the stem cell injections from BCRO are approved by the TGA in Australia and they are an extremely difficult regulator to get anything approved by. They don't do anything for hair at the moment as they are primarily concerned with helping people with chronic illnessess who are not having much success with conventional medication.
 
As for my hair, I'm going to look into increasing my Vit E intake. I am also taking NAC at the moment. Also, back on page 1 of this forum I found the following post. I'm going to basically try and implement as many of the things in this post as possible.
 
These substances retard the onset of or reverse gray hair:
Auxins
Dihydroxyl-5,6-indole (applied topically) reverses gray hair. This occurs via dihydroxyl-5,6-indole functioning as a precursor molecule for the production of melanin via a slow oxidation process. This compound is not yet commercially available.

Hormones
There are many (reliable) anecdotal reports claiming that human growth hormone (hGH) replacement therapy has restored normal hair color to gray hair.

Minerals
Gray hair can occur as a result of calcium deficiency.
Copper supplementation sometimes delays the onset of gray hair (due to its role in the production of melanin).
Zinc deficiency may cause premature gray hair:  Some contradictory reports state that zinc has no effect on the onset of gray hair.

Pharmaceutical drugs
Imatinib mesylate reverses gray hair (however this use of Imatinib mesylate is impractical as this drug causes many toxic side effects).

Pigments
Melanin can be encapsulated within liposomes and applied topically to the scalp in order to deliver melanin to the cells of hair follicles where it is then utilized endogenously to "pump" melanin which is responsible for hair color back into otherwise gray hair.

Vitamins
Biotin delays the onset of gray hair and may retard the further progression of gray hair. research
Folic acid helps to prevent gray hair.
Inositol has a protective effect on hair follicles and via this protection of hair follicles it sometimes prevents or halts the progression of gray hair.

Occasionally, (in approximately 10-25% of cases) para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA) use causes gray or white Hair to darken toward its original color (very large dosages of 6-24 GRAMS per day of PABA are required to achieve this effect).

- A trial undertaken in 1941 concluded that 200 mg of PABA per day for two months resulted in marked darkening of the hair in 30 patients afflicted with gray Hair.
- A trial undertaken in 1944 concluded that 200 mg of PABA combined with 100 mg of calcium pantothenate and 50 mg of Brewer’s yeast per day for eight months caused significant hair color change in only two patients out of 33 afflicted with gray Hair.
- A trial undertaken in 1964 concluded that administration of 6-24 grams of PABA per day for six weeks caused dramatic hair color change and hair regrowth in 5 patients out of 20 (i.e. 25%) with markedly gray hair (hair color returned to gray within three to four weeks of ceasing PABA treatment).

Gray hair is a symptom of vitamin B5 deficiency in rats (this finding does not necessarily extrapolate to humans, although there is scientific speculation that vitamin B5 may also prevent human graying of the hair - unfortunately no studies have yet been performed to refute nor confirm this claim).

Synthetic substances in synergy

A blend of Retin-A combined with an (unspecified) alpha-hydroxy acid (applied topically to the scalp) is under investigation as a means of returning gray hair to its original color:

- This claim is made on the basis of reports from a New York dermatologist (Jim Baral) who claims to have restored his hair color to normal after accidentally smearing the mixture onto his scalp. His hair color remained normal one year after the incident.

Volatile oils
Eugenol (the principal active ingredient in cloves and clove oil) (applied topically to the scalp) has been demonstrated to restore hair color (and may therefore be useful for the treatment of gray hair).

These herbs prevent, disguise or (possibly) reverse gray hair
Ashwagandha helps to prevent and treat gray hair (by increasing the melanin content of the hair). research
Eugenol (the principal active ingredient in cloves) (applied topically to the scalp) has been demonstrated to restore hair color (and may therefore be useful for the treatment of gray hair).
Fo-Ti (consumed orally) may reverse gray hair and restore hair color to its natural color.
Ligustrum is used in China to prevent gray hair (its usefulness is based on folklore).
Sage (strong infusion of 100 grams in 500 ml of water) cosmetically disguises gray air.

Post Edited (AussieDavid) : 7/15/2007 10:09:31 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : snoopy - 7/14/2007 4:02 PM
My simple approach, already told:
2 x 600 mg NAC from LEF plus a lot of vit c ext. rel. (from Switamin)
3 g omega 3 fatty acids (from LEF)
6 x 1 capsule of a multi (from LEF or Thorne, alternating every month)
1 x Super Booster (from LEF)
After six months I had my original color which is blond.
In the meantime appr. 10 percent of my beard reversed also to blond.  I think the big helper is NAC, which I originally started to take for protection of my lungs and boost the gluthatione level.

Posted By : snoopy - 7/14/2007 4:03 PM
Appendix to my previous post:
I know copper is necessary for building melanin, but I use a multi without copper.
It is known that copper and zinc are antagonists.
A long-term intake of more than 2 - 4 mg copper per day should be avoided and the ratio zinc-copper should be grater than 4:1 to avoid overloading with copper.

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/15/2007 4:05 PM
Thanks again snoopy.
6 months is a short period indeed. Can you provide us with more information?
1) You said had a grey area near your ears, was poliosis or just the start of greying progress?
2) How much vitamin C daily?
3) Could you suggest a remedy that you believe it will work for reversing grey hair?

Posted By : snoopy - 7/16/2007 12:02 AM
Hi dLaertios,

ad 1) It was the start of greying process (I am 63 y). But: every time I stopped the supplements, the hair become grey again. And starting again with the supplements the grey disappeared within 2 or 3 weeks. I can't say what would have happened if I would be 40 years and all of my hair is grey!

ad 2) I use 2 g vitamin C e.r. daily together with NAC daily and additional the amount of vitamin C contained in the multi (appr. 800 mg) daily plus 4 g of LEF buffered vitamin C powder (not daily, maybe every second day).

3) This is my personal approach. I do not know if it helps someone other.

But: my main interest is to remain healthy, maybe this helps to keep my natural color of the hair. In my age I do not worry about the color of my hair. In my opinion it is a gift of nature and genes. Yeah, it's pretty nice to get a drink somewhere and the ladies are saying "Oh, maybe you are already 50!" I started supplementing in 2000, in the meantime i was never ill. My last flu I had nov. 1999.

Please keep in mind: to be healthy is more important than the color of your hair!
I wish you the best!
Regards - Snoopy

Post Edited (snoopy) : 7/16/2007 5:44:57 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : StarGazer - 7/16/2007 12:06 AM
A poster, "island808" in this forum last year mentioned he knew of a lady who was eating Goji Berries and claimed her hair color was returning.

A few who have taken Goji Berry Juice claimed the same.

Here's a source for GoJi berries.
http://www.gojiberries.us/

BUT - It seems to me that if it really worked for grey hair, many people who eat the berries or drink the juice would be claiming that it is reversing their grey hair. After all, that is almost miraculous.

So, if it does work, it probably works for a small minority of those who ingest the stuff. Personally, I've decided not to try it. But if anyone else does, please report whether or not it helped.

I've already experienced a minor miracle in my life of halting my hair loss and having more hair now (I'm 42) than I did in my 20s. Perhaps having my grey hair go back to its natural color is asking for too much.

But, I'm trying.

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/16/2007 9:15 AM
Thanks a lot snoopy.
My regimen gives me a reversal too.
The good news is that more and more people in this forum experience a reversal of grey hair.

So we do something right and the problem has a solution as it seems.

From your remedy I find that you use a lot more C than me. I am trying to increase my C intake too but have to find another form that can be taken without food. My C is ascorbotic 1 gr and I wouldn't use it with empty stomach.

This period I take tyrosine and try to find out if it helps. I am looking forward to use NAC and test it.

Hope your intution about NAC is right and it is responsible for your reversal and not the omega-3 or another supplement.

Posted By : snoopy - 7/16/2007 12:22 PM

dLaertios,

Yes I am using a lot of vitamin C.

For different reasons:

* I'm smoker :-((

* If you use NAC it is recommended to take two to three times as much vitamin C at the same time. 2 x 600 mg NAC require appr. 3 g of vitamin C. You should also add some selenium, zinc and magnesium. Otherwise some of the NAC is processed to cystine which has no antioxidative effect and could (could!) increase the risk for kidney stones. RD is 0,5 - 1,5 g NAC per day. Reference: the book of Burgerstein (2007) I have mentioned somewhere in the forum.

Tom gave the advice to add some taurine, otherwise a part of NAC is converted to taurine. This is correct.

* Highly dosed vitamin C helps to keep the lipid levels healty. This is not advertising for vitamin C, I have measured the effect with a device using test strips for cholesterol, HDL and triglycerides.

* Vitamin C supports collagen.

* The one form of vitamin C I use is natural vitamin C of acerola fruits with extended release (expensive). I take it together with NAC on empty stomach. The multi I take 6 times distributed over the whole day. The LEF-powder is dissolved in a glass of water and I drink it mouthfulwise over some hours. This doesn't cause any problem (at least for me).

* You are right, I do not know if it is NAC that helps reversing grey hair. But the sulfur amino acid L-Cysteine makes up nearly 18% of hair and provides its strength and integral structure. I will continue researching.

* Tyrosine is important, but I didn't study it and I do not have any experience with it.

Regards - Snoopy

 


Posted By : brm - 7/16/2007 6:40 PM
The right vit C/vit E ratio is rather around 5, I think. SNOOPY, altogether, you take around 7 grams of vit C daily!!! How d'you manage not to have any gastric problems???? DLAERTIOS, high dose vit C is suspected of carcinogenesis: cellular cancers... My personal regimen looks like AussieDavid's except dosages are stronger. The greying process is going on, exponentially of course...

STARGAZER, what do you use against hair loss? What worked the miracle you're talking about?

Posted By : snoopy - 7/16/2007 7:20 PM
brm,
Hm, I don't know how I can calculate a vit C/vit E ratio?  With my values given above I have a mean intake 4,8 g of vit C per day.  I know how much of vit E I consume (multi plus LEF Booster). But the values for vit E are defined in I.U. and not in g or mg. The calculated conversion of I.U. is only valid for d-alpha-tocopherol.
How can you calculate this for the other tocopheroles or the tocotrienoles?  What is your reference for a ratio of 5?

Sorry for my typing errors

Post Edited (snoopy) : 7/16/2007 6:25:56 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : dLaertios - 7/17/2007 8:13 AM
I don't think that C helps cancer, I believe the contrary.  You have to listen to your body in case you are afraid of overdose, but other pioneers have proved that 5 gr of C daily are safe.

Brm something is missing from aussie's regimen and I don't know what.  From all the search on the internet success stories for reversing was:
1) 5 gr C daily, (water from copper tubes)
2) 4 gr C, 1gr E, multimineral/multivitamin
3) vit E
4) B vitamins, B complex
5) ormus copper

Every example worked alone for reversal.
My regimen has it all. And works for sure.
The problem is the time frame. If I need a year to reverse 10% - I 'll have full reversal in 10 years.

I need something to boost it. The good news is that I believe it will work and for you.

Maybe it is slow for me because:
a) I dye my hair- stress and oxidise them
b) Need more vitamin C- but already gained weight because I try to eat 3 times a day to take supplements. Tomorrow I 'll make a search to supplements of C that I can take on empty stomach.

Posted By : StarGazer - 7/17/2007 8:21 AM
brm,

I don't have a miracle cure for hair loss - just a few of the lastest, most powerful drugs. I started losing my hair at age 21 - long before any of my friends/peers started losing theirs. It was very traumatic at the time.

I have used many, many lotions and potions over the years - been using different forms of Rogaine since 1988, also used Propecia and many bogus products.

Right now, I have more hair than I had in my 20s. I certainly have more than the majority of men my age (I'm 42).

My routine is: .5 mg Avodart, Rogaine 5% foam, and the LaserComb. My hair is very thick on top and grows extremely fast (I don't like the fast growth, however).

I have missed many days of taking the Avodart recently, and amazingly my hair is still holding up fine. I have also missed several days of the lasercomb.

At this point, grey hair is my main battle. I've tried He Shou Wu from Plum Flower (supposedly a high grade) for about 4 years w/o results. I know that's a long enough trial, but I'm afraid to drop it - I don't know if it's at least slowing down the rate of greying. I suppose it isn't.

I supplement well, eat well, and exercise regularly. I also have used LEF's GliSODin for the past 6 months or so. It hasn't helped with the grey like I hoped it might (given the SOD gel research with mice), but the research shows GliSODin helps with so many other things, so I'll stay with it.

I'll probably add a few of Snoopy's items to my regimine, perhaps 1 at a time. Perhaps the LEF Super Booster next. I'll also probably switch from regular vit C to Ester-C.

Posted By : snoopy - 7/17/2007 12:16 PM
dLaertios,

If you use vit C in the form of an extract of acerola (south american fruit) with delayed release you can take it on empty stomach (at least I can do). Here you can get it. The price is EUR 76 for 365 capsules with 1 g vit C www.switamin.com (Switzerland, Netherlands).
Also the buffered LEF-vit C with ascorbates can be used without getting the stomach more acid.  The rest is only 800 mg ascorbic acid.

Two times per week I also use a base powder to avoid an acid overload and to keep the pH-value of the urine between 6,0 and 6,8. This can be verified with test strips (cheap).

At the other hand, there are some hints that our body can only process 300 mg vit C per single intake. I cannot clearify this problem, therefore I take all the vit C distributed over 16 hours.

Regards - Snoopy

Post Edited (snoopy) : 7/17/2007 12:37:08 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : snoopy - 7/17/2007 3:41 PM
brm said...
The right vit C/vit E ratio is rather around 5, I think. SNOOPY, altogether, you take around 7 grams of vit C daily!!! How d'you manage not to have any gastric problems???? DLAERTIOS, high dose vit C is suspected of carcinogenesis: cellular cancers... My personal regimen looks like AussieDavid's except dosages are stronger. The greying process is going on, exponentially of course...

STARGAZER, what do you use against hair loss? What worked the miracle you're talking about?
The vit E family consists of 4 tocopherols (alpha- to delta-tocopherol) and 4 tocotrienols (also alpha- to delta-tocotrienol).
 
As far as I know the measuring unit "IU" is only defined for alpha-tocopherol and not for the other types.  I have found a way to calculate the amoung in g to I.U. and vv.
 
1 mg D-alpha-tocopherol = 1.49 I.U. vit E
1 mg DL-alpha-tocopherol (synthetic!) = 1.00 I.U. vit E
 
Now I know that my intake is appr. 1.000 I.U. or 630 g vit E.
The vit C/vit E ratio is strongly higher than 5.
Could you give a reference for this ratio?
Thank you in advance.
 
Regards - Snoopy

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/17/2007 4:08 PM
Thanks for all snoopy.
I decided to boost the supplement regimen more.
Added one B+C more =) 3 grams of C + 3*B-complex 50.
I am sure that will work wonders.

Furthermore I ordered chelated copper 2.5 mg to add it to my regimen too.

So now I have it all.
The only concern is how I can remedy zinc and iron intake.

Lets see what will happen.

Posted By : Alessio - 7/17/2007 6:36 PM
I do not believe that so much vitamin C is the key, because body only take as much as it needs the rest goes out through urine.

Posted By : brm - 7/17/2007 6:48 PM
Snoopy, my conversion rate from I.U to mg is exactly yours: 15 IU=10 mg for d-alpha-tocopherol. I cannot clearly understand why this rate should be different for the levo- form. The chemical compound has the same molecular weight. Maybe the explanation lies in some buffer coefficient due to poorer absorption qualities. Ditto for other forms of vit E (beta, gamma,... that only define a different position of a particular substitution group in the isotope if I remember correctly).
Ratio vit C/vit E: no one can say for sure. I just consider the ADV that most developed countries give. They generally point to a value of 6 in favor of vit C. What those medicos seem positive about is that vit E or vitC used on their own act as prooxidants whereas their synergy is thought to be antioxidant.
Sorry dLaertios. I meant vit E is said by some to be connected to some forms of cellular cancers. Where do you get your vit C and vit E from?How much do they charge?
Stargazer, any side effects from avodart? I personally use 1/2 proscar a day with a poor sex drive... Do you think lasercomb is of any use? Which model d'you have?
Thank you all.

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/18/2007 10:20 AM
Cancer isn't my concern at the time.

Also I don't believe that supplements will give you cancer - except maybe tyrosine -

I don't take straight C, but super B+C. 13 euros 30 pills. For E : 20 euros 30 pills.

I know it is a lot of money for supplements but I feel better and if they eventually work against grey hair I don't mind at all.

Posted By : brm - 7/18/2007 10:29 AM
MELATONIN IN QUESTION.

http://www.nature.com/jidsp/journal/v10/n3/full/5640228a.html
Read this thru. They say that reactive oxygen species stems from the growing inability of antoixidant mechanisms to do their jobs as we age. And one of the two studies they list concerning melatonin hints at the ability of melatonin to scavenge this reactive oxygne species in a dose dependent manner. So, good point as i t seems, for melatonin.

Now this one.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1292300
Download the "complete article" in pdf.

They describe how the activation of melatonin receptors might inhibit the transformation of dopa into melanin without blocking the oxidative process of melanogenesis in its early stages. The scavenging warrior is melanin itself. Absent of it, the melanocyte gets killed by its own inablity to produce melanin because of the activatio of the melatonin receptor... in an irreversible way... Melatonin receptors activation can stem from high concentrations of melatonin in the skin, so for instance, i guess, topical supplementation. Very bad point for melatonin.

And this one http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1201498
search for melatonin in this page and you'll see that it is a "factor providing negative regulation of melanogenesis"... Another bad point
The problem is that I find melatonin having anti hair loss effects and would like to keep it in my regimen as I'm using it again since June 1st. I think I'm going to try the solution in the armpit to see whether it induces grey in an area where it is currently nonexistent.

Posted By : snoopy - 7/18/2007 12:37 PM
dLaertios,
 
for zinc are some reference values:
DACH (2000): 10 mg
US RDA (2001): 11 mg
Werbach (1990, therapeutic intake) 20 - 100 mg
 
These are the "male values", female values are a little bit lower.  My personal daily intake is 15 mg as zinc picolinate, which has a good bioavailability.  Intakes higher than 25 mg can have interactions with copper, mangan, calzium and iron.  More than 125 mg can have toxic side effects.
 
There is some consens in the literature to supplement iron only if a blood test shows a deficit of iron.  Also: if you take a lot of vit C your body will take up more iron of the normal meals.  Therefore I do not supplement iron. My last blood test confirms that.
 

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 7/18/2007 11:47:30 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : Alessio - 7/25/2007 10:48 AM
Hello!

I have read yesterday that sciece has found out that hair goes grey because the absence of LIZIN.

Posted By : Kakarot - 7/25/2007 10:49 AM
Read the following on new pigmentation enhancers being developed by biotech; we could get these from Sigma-Aldrich and try them ourselves to see which work best:

Posted By : Alessio - 7/25/2007 10:49 AM
lizin=lysine

Lysine is an essential amino acid, which means that it is essential to human health but cannot be manufactured by the body. For this reason, lysine must be obtained from food. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein. Lysine is important for proper growth and it plays an essential role in the production of carnitine, a nutrient responsible for converting fatty acids into energy and helping to lower cholesterol. Lysine appears to help the body absorb and conserve calcium and it plays an important role in the formation of collagen, a substance important for bones and connective tissues including skin, tendon, and cartilage.

Posted By : dLaertios - 7/25/2007 1:42 PM
Alessio,

give the link with the article on lysine.

A product for hair, skin and nails from Solgar has Lysine in it: 50 mg. Also I found that lysine is a cheap amino acid.

As for the article of kakarot said that psoralens can induce hair follicle pigmentation (+ DMSO or UVA).  I think that psoralens are a little dangerous to handle.

Posted By : lad - 7/25/2007 4:43 PM
Also interesting (from a hair product website):

"While L-lysine is NOT a DHT blocker, it may make dht blockers more effective. Researchers have found that adding a supplement of L-lysine can make drugs like propecia more effective. Since propecia is a DHT inhibitor, as all the natural products mentioned in this page. The addition of a l-Lysine supplement can make these products also more effective. Studies have shown that L-lysine combined with a DHT inhibitor can promote hair growth in people suffering from androgenetic alopecia."

Posted By : cdkona - 7/27/2007 11:44 AM
A interesting article about lysine-copper peptides in relation to hair loss/color.

http://www.skinbiology.com/2004RussiaHairRemodeling.html

Posted By : Alessio - 8/6/2007 10:02 AM
dLaertios!
Sorry for late respond. But I cannot provide you link, because I have read this in newspaper.

Posted By : gotsomegray - 8/6/2007 3:53 PM
I hate to post more L'Oreal info, but I decided to go to their consumer website to see if anything new had popped up.  Here's a paragraph under hair care that isn't much different from what's been posted on this message board, but I think it's promising that L'Oreal went as far as putting this on their website.  Anyway, here it is:
 
"A Revolutionary Discovery
Of course, discovering ever-more-effective ways to cover gray hair is still a key area of our research. Hair derives its natural color from melanin, a substance that absorbs the portion of available light not reflected by the hair's surface. After 30 years of research, L'Oréal's laboratories have developed a precursor molecule for melanin. This molecule enables the natural process of hair pigmentation to take place biologically through a slow oxidative process. This molecule may soon lead to a completely new way of enhancing hair color and covering gray."

Posted By : AussieDavid - 8/9/2007 10:51 AM

Some more info from the Loreal website. I don't think they're close to stopping or reversing grey hair, but maybe they're close to changing the way we cover it.

http://www.hair-science.com/_int/_en/topic/topic_sousrub.aspx?tc=ROOT-HAIR-SCIENCE^AMAZINGLY-NATURAL^GREY-HAIR&cur=GREY-HAIR


Posted By : Alessio - 8/12/2007 7:39 PM
Gotsomegray have you checked the date of this publication? I believe that Loreal have discover this molecule at least 3 or 4 years ago and so far no progress have been made.  I pesonally do not have any hope more that any cosmetic company will provide us the cure anytime soon. Perhaps in decade or so.

I personally give more on genetic. Follica have buy the licence for some potential cure for baldness, found by one American university. the finding follows the team's announcement three years ago that it had found parent cells - stem cells - in mouse hair follicles that can regenerate hair, skin and follicles after being implanted. At the time the team said that it hoped to isolate stem cells and use them to generate new follicles. But in the test tube Dr Cotsarelis and his team were surprised to find that the stem cells did not directly contribute to the growth of follicles. Today's work shows that to form follicles the body "reprograms" other skin (epidermal) cells. However, the new hair did not have pigment.

And so they will probably find the way to pigment that hair and there is a hope for us.

What about you dLaertios have you achieved any more reversal?

Posted By : StarGazer - 8/13/2007 1:05 AM
Couple things on L'Oreal:
 
1) Someone posted their patent here in which they successfully tested their patented product on a small group of humans already.  So why do you think it will still be a decade from now? 
 
Unless it has to go through regular FDA trials, which I doubt since any cream, lotion, or shampoo would not be taken internally, they could get it rolling much sooner than that if it really worked.
 
2) A read a quote from someone at L'Oreal (might have been a scientist at the firm, I don't recall), who said back in 2004 that they might have something out in "5-10 years."  It's already been 3 years since then.  Which means would could see something 2-7 years from now if his prediction is still on target.

Posted By : Alessio - 8/13/2007 10:49 AM
I have read this quote to. That said dr. Bruno Bernard head of hair biology at L'Oreal, the same claims also Dr. Chris Gummer from Proctor&Gamble.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3752785.stm

http://www.britainusa.com/sections/articles_show_nt1.asp?d=0&i=41086&L1=0&L2=0&a=24990

But I think that genetics will provide cure first.

Here is an interesting article.

http://www.pressbox.co.uk/detailed/Health/Genetics_And_Gray_Hair_134798.html

Has anyone got a clue how long it ussually takes that your grey hair to become white? How long melanocytes usually survive in grey hair?

Posted By : Alessio - 8/13/2007 11:00 AM
It looks like that GENETICS AND GRAY HAIR is another internet hoax.

Here is the article you talk about StarGazer

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/menshealth.html?in_article_id=304577&in_page_id=1800&in_a_source=

It would be ql that the cure will be out in 2 or 3 years!!

Posted By : gotsomegray - 8/15/2007 6:27 PM
Alessio said...
Gotsomegray have you checked the date of this publication? I believe that Loreal have discover this molecule at least 3 or 4 years ago and so far no progress have been made.  I pesonally do not have any hope more that any cosmetic company will provide us the cure anytime soon. Perhaps in decade or so.
 
I have no idea of the date of that publication.  I check out L'Oreal's website every six months or so and I did not remember reading that before on their website or posted by someone else on this forum.
 
One of the gray hair reversal methods that seems to be well-liked across internet message boards is black strap molasses.  When I have some more time I may scan through this forum to see what people have posted on the topic.  I know it has been mentioned before.
 

Posted By : Alessio - 8/16/2007 4:12 PM
It`s at least one year old.

Here is something interesting from one article:

For example, white follicles taken from someone who has been grey-haired for a long time still have melanocytes. They are greatly reduced in number and dormant but manage to survive for decades. By exposing these melanocytes to peptides and/or chemicals, Dr. Tobin has persuaded them to repopulate and produce melanin — in vitro.

Next, he hopes to determine which environmental factors are particularly problematic for aging hair melanocytes. He thinks it could be a nutritional deficiency, a stem cell deficiency, the inability of melanocytes to migrate, an enzymatic factor or an inability to avoid oxidative damage.

Posted By : jamesbb - 8/16/2007 11:18 PM
im sure some one has already said this but perhaps some hair dye? nothing to be ashamed of i say.
thanks
jamesbb


Thanks for your time reading
Regards

Jamesbb


Posted By : StarGazer - 8/18/2007 9:11 PM
If we all just used hair dye, would there be any need for this thread?

We're not looking to look like 45 year old pimps.

Posted By : JohnGellar - 8/18/2007 9:12 PM
Hello,

I have reviewed the information for DMSO on www.dmso-use.com and I was wondering if somebody has experienced this medicine. Can we consider this as a common way of healing?

Thank you.

Posted By : Alessio - 8/18/2007 9:13 PM
An article from hair science:

"The strange and subtle chemistry of coloration is constantly evolving, and the desire to re-pigment white hair as naturally as possible has given birth to a radical new approach: biomimetics. This is by no means a misnomer since it actually does imitate a natural biological process, that of the final stage involved in creating melanin within the melanocytes . . .

The use of precursors identical to those found in nature broadens the scope of possible colors, which may yet be extended even further by this type of recomposed natural pigments."

Posted By : Alessio - 8/26/2007 7:49 PM
dLaeritos anything new by you? Have you achieved any more progress in reversing?

Posted By : dLaertios - 8/26/2007 10:48 PM
No nothing new.

Posted By : Alessio - 8/31/2007 12:58 PM
http://news.hairlosshelp.com/hair-loss-news/scientist-discovers-protein-in-anti-wrinkle-cream-that-thickens-hair-and-restores-natural-hair-color/

Posted By : suz - 8/31/2007 2:28 PM
Hello All,

I'm new here today, so I hope I'm posting properly. I can only say, from personal experience, taking one niacin and one biotin supplement a day, in about 3 months, I do believe you will see a difference. More is "not" better...so just be patient, and let us know, and good luck. My hair was getting a few greys, so a few years ago, I did these two supplements together, as I'd read somewhere, that the biotin is better received in the body when taken with the niacin, so I did it, and it's worked for me...and I still take them, and no greys.

Posted By : StarGazer - 9/1/2007 7:22 PM
suz -
 
Very interesting post.  Please post details.  How much biotin and how much niacin? 
 
Thanks. 

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 9/3/2007 12:02 PM
AussieDavid said...
. . . Also, back on page 1 of this forum I found the following post. I'm going to basically try and implement as many of the things in this post as possible. . . .
 
A blend of Retin-A combined with an (unspecified) alpha-hydroxy acid (applied topically to the scalp) is under investigation as a means of returning gray hair to its original color:

- This claim is made on the basis of reports from a New York dermatologist (Jim Baral) who claims to have restored his hair color to normal after accidentally smearing the mixture onto his scalp. His hair color remained normal one year after the incident.
It looks like nothing came of this discovery by an apparently well-respected New York dermatologist. But here is more info from the NY Times archives:
"Restoring Hair Color Without Using Dyes

Can the fountain of youth come in a tube? Perhaps, says Dr. Jim Baral, a dermatologist in Manhattan who has received a patent for what he says is the first method of restoring the original color to gray hair without dyes.

Dr. Baral had been using a blend of two creams thought to have anti-wrinkle properties -- retinoid and ammonium lactate -- for several months when he noticed that his face had begun to look tan and that the graying hair around his forehead had turned back to its original black."

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 9/3/2007 11:05:01 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : gotsomegray - 9/3/2007 12:09 PM
suz said...
Hello All,

I'm new here today, so I hope I'm posting properly. I can only say, from personal experience, taking one niacin and one biotin supplement a day, in about 3 months, I do believe you will see a difference. More is "not" better...so just be patient, and let us know, and good luck. My hair was getting a few greys, so a few years ago, I did these two supplements together, as I'd read somewhere, that the biotin is better received in the body when taken with the niacin, so I did it, and it's worked for me...and I still take them, and no greys.
Suz,
Thanks for the info!  I'm always open to hearing new ideas on how people have reversed or prevented gray hair.  Nothing has worked for me yet, but I'm far from giving up hope.

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/3/2007 2:37 PM
guys, what do you think about Ultra H-3:
 
 
"Do you have a low sex drive? Do you suffer from depression? Do you have low energy and fatigue? Arthritis, aches and pain? Memory loss? Insomnia? Graying hair?"
 
"Supported by over 300 clinical studies and thousands of testimonials, UNI KEY'S ULTRA H-3 is highly regarded as "The Fountain of Youth." ULTRA H-3 is the ONLY patented procaine-based GH-3 type formula on the market today. GH-3 was originally popularized by the renowned physician Dr. Ana Aslan in Romania over 50 years ago. "
 
"ULTRA H-3's patented process provides 6 times more of the bioavailable procaine nutrients than the original injectable formulation at a fraction of the cost. To further target delivery, ULTRA H-3 contains standardized bilberry and ginkgo extracts to increase the circulation to the brain. "

Posted By : Gaizz - 9/3/2007 4:59 PM
StinkyJoe said...
AussieDavid said...


. . . Also, back on page 1 of this forum I found the following post. I'm going to basically try and implement as many of the things in this post as possible. . . .
NY Times archives</A>:</B>


"Restoring Hair Color Without Using Dyes

Can the fountain of youth come in a tube? Perhaps, says Dr. Jim Baral, a dermatologist in Manhattan who has received a patent for what he says is the first method of restoring the original color to gray hair without dyes.

Dr. Baral had been using a blend of two creams thought to have anti-wrinkle properties -- and ammonium lactate -- for several months when he noticed that his face had begun to look tan and that the graying hair around his forehead had turned back to its original black."

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5273739-description.html


Posted By : brm - 9/3/2007 6:49 PM
GH3 has already been discussed here, including the seemingly real deal, from Romania. I don't remember that users had noticed anything positive with this (ask Aussie David). Moreover, the American substitute for this product is more or less devoid of the real ingredient since I believe that GH3 is forbidden on the US land.
How much niacin? Niacin is vit B3.

My regimen is as unsuccessful as ever: black sesame, copper peptides (once every fourth day), specific formula in caps (with copper gluconate), amla oil, coconut oil, ho shou wuh, topical retinoic acid (low concentration though) and some others I must forget. All this for the past year or so. The only thing that slightly changes the color of my hair is topical copper peptides that turn it... greenish.

I'm beginning blackstrap molasses + brewer's yeast next wednesday. I may consider bimatoprost as well since I can get some. But the concentration to achieve seems high and impossible from the simple 3 ml lumigan bottle. And I had planned to test it on facial hair first but the thing is said to tan patches of skin permanently so....I'm a bit reluctant.

Posted By : Alessio - 9/3/2007 7:11 PM
I also take niacin and biotin for about 4 months now. I take 162 ug biotin daily and 15 mg niacin daily.  Is that enough?

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 9/4/2007 10:35 AM
Here is an anecdotal report of high-dose oral iodine partially restoring hair color in both husband and wife.  turn

Posted By : Alessio - 9/4/2007 10:35 AM
http://www.pharmadiscount.com/index.htm?prod=cat/c1s30.htm#4681

anyone good in france language???

Posted By : AussieDavid - 9/4/2007 10:56 AM

I've also recently added blackstrap molasses to my program. I heat up a mug of milk in the microwave for 2 mins, then stir one teaspoon scoop of molasses into the milk. Makes a latte coloured drink that doesn't taste too bad. I'm also getting a topical solution made up with clove oil and SODzyme.

I'm cutting back on my supplements.....eliminating some and reducing the dose of others. I've posted my program here http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=35&m=39287 I'm seriously concerned about the things that have been happening to my body since I started taking so many supplements.

I did just last week find another hair that was coloured at the base and grey at the tip. This is the first one since last year, so I am again convinced that it is possible to reverse some grey hair. Unfortunately I continue to see more and more grey and less pigmented hair.

 


Posted By : brm - 9/4/2007 2:52 PM
Alessio said...
http://www.pharmadiscount.com/index.htm?prod=cat/c1s30.htm#4681

anyone good in france language???


I'd be willing to help you. But this window simply won't open on my computer. Enclose the content as an attached file in a post (attachment manager) or copy directly.

Posted By : brm - 9/4/2007 4:21 PM
Alessio said...
http://www.pharmadiscount.com/index.htm?prod=cat/c1s30.htm#4681

anyone good in france language???


Yes I've got it now. Well this is the usual stuff sold by Loreal (you can find the same at Schwatzkopf). There's no lead acetate in this one. It is not the magic bullet that we're awaiting but... It is not hair dye either so maybe a better alternative than grecian 2000. Well, I'll have a look at it at the shop round the corner tomorrow or so. I remember seeing it on the shelves.

Posted By : StarGazer - 9/4/2007 7:49 PM
Thanks to whoever posted this patent.  I've been trying to find out exactly what Dr. Baral (as posted a few days ago) used for his AHA/Retin-A concoction for years!!!
 
Now I know!   At the very least, it seems to tan the face.  It does work for grey hair in some cases.
 
Lac Hydrin is over the counter - no script needed.  I just did a search and it can be found all over the Internet and delivered to your door.  Retin-A is very easy to get.  This is all spelled out for us!
 
Here's the patent number:  5273739
 
Just type the patent number in here:
 
http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm

Posted By : zorba990 - 9/5/2007 10:34 AM
Hmm. I wonder why the author in that patent keeps using suntanned in quotes, e.g. "suntanned".  Is he implying that the effect is not melanin related but rather a dyeing effect? DHA (sunless tanner) will color hair also but the rection has nothing to do with melanin (in the case of DHA). Of course a better sunless tanner is always welcome...

It will be interesting to see what results are obtained by this.  Retin-A and Lac-Hydrin each contain warnings about increased UV sensitivity so I'd be a bit concerned about using them together without sunblock.

Posted By : Alessio - 9/5/2007 10:34 AM
Here are several approaches to treating grey hair:

Oral Nutritional Treatments For Grey Hair:
By replacing deficient vitamins and minerals, greying of hair may be prevented, slowed or reversed.
Vitamin B12 - can be taken in tablet form.
Omega 3 - capsules and can be applied topically.
Minerals –calcium, copper and zinc supplementation sometimes delays the onset of gray hair.
Biotin - delays the onset of gray hair and may retard the further progression of gray hair.
Folic acid - helps to prevent gray hair.
Inositol - has a protective effect on hair follicles and via this protection of hair follicles it sometimes prevents or halts the progression of gray hair.
PABA - in approximately 10-25% of cases, para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA) use causes gray or white hair to darken toward its original color (6-24 grams per day is required). Clinical trials support this claim.
-200 mg of PABA per day for two months resulted in marked darkening of the hair in nearly all participants.
-200 mg of PABA combined with 100 mg of calcium pantothenate and 50 mg of Brewer’s yeast per day for eight months caused significant hair color change in only two patients out of 33.
-6-24 grams of PABA per day for six weeks caused dramatic hair color change and hair regrowth in 5 patients out of 20. With markedly grey hair (hair color returned to grey within three to four weeks of ceasing PABA treatment).
HGH - there are many reliable anecdotal reports claiming that human growth hormone (HGH) replacement therapy has restored normal hair color to grey hair.
L-Tyrosine - Tyrosine is necessary for melanin formation. A product known as Gleevec, which reversed gray hair in some people who used it, is a tyrosine kinase inhibitor.
DMAE - DMAE may not only affect coloring, but also have a possible use in maintaining or restoring hair growth:
Calorie restriction or fasting - could slow down the graying of hair.
Fo-Ti - herb
Jiaogulan (gynostemma) tea - reported to have a repigmentation effect if used for several months.


Topical Nutrient Application For Grey Hair
Retin-A combined with AHA (alpha-hydroxy acid) - applied topically to the scalp is under investigation as a means of returning grey hair to its original color. (New York dermatologist, Jim Baral - claims to have restored his hair color to normal after accidentally smearing the mixture onto his scalp. His hair color remained normal one year after the incident.)
SOD (superoxide dismutase) compound - proposes to protect against graying, found in some gels.
Omega-3 rich shampoo - works by penetrating deep into the hair follicle to deliver unprecedented nutrition to keep the hair follicle in its original colour.
Pigments - Melanin can be encapsulated within liposomes and applied topically to the scalp in order to deliver melanin to the cells of hair follicles where it is then utilized endogenously to "pump" melanin which is responsible for hair color back into otherwise gray hair.
Eugenol Oil - the principal active ingredient in cloves and clove oil, applied topically to the scalp has been demonstrated to restore hair color.
Indian Amla Oil - enriches hair growth and pigmentation, and increases the strength of hair follicles.
Ashwagandha - helps to prevent and treat gray hair by increasing the melanin content of the hair.
Ligustrum - is used in China to prevent gray hair.


Medical and Pharmaceutical Drugs For Grey Hair
Auxins - Dihydroxyl-5,6-indole (applied topically) reverses gray hair. This occurs via dihydroxyl-5,6-indole functioning as a precursor molecule for the production of melanin via a slow oxidation process. This compound is not yet commercially-available.

Imatinib Mesylate - reverses gray hair (this drug causes many toxic side effects).
Anticancer drug Gleevec - reversed hair depigmentation as a side effect in some people in a study reported in a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine.
Hair stem cell replacement therapy – unproven as yet.


Cosmetic Treatments For Grey Hair
Semi-permanent dyes - made for coloring gray hair have small molecules which pass through the cuticle into the cortex without damaging the scales of the cuticle. If you are concerned about chemically-treating your hair, choose a non-ammonium vegetable colour, such as henna, instead.
Sage - strong infusion of 100 grams in 500 ml of water cosmetically disguises grey air.

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 9/5/2007 9:38:09 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/9/2007 5:38 PM
brm said...
GH3 has already been discussed here, including the seemingly real deal, from Romania. I don't remember that users had noticed anything positive with this (ask Aussie David). Moreover, the American substitute for this product is more or less devoid of the real ingredient since I believe that GH3 is forbidden on the US land.
How much niacin? Niacin is vit B3.
 
I remember GH3 discussion...This is Ann Louise Gittleman's product - a well respected nutrion guru  so I thought that it could be 'different' (wishful thinking?)...anyway, here is the ingredient list:
Procaine HCI - 100 mg
Ascorbic Acid - 25 mg
Citric Acid -25 mg
Niacin -16 mg
Folic acid - 0.4 mg
Biotin - 0.3 mg
Potassium - 11 mg
Magnesium - 4 mg
 
p.s. why the q. about niacin?
 
just fyi: here is what she says in her book about PABA: " It's used by doctors along with  pantothenic acid and folic acid to bring back the color to graying hair, if stress or poor nutrition caused it."

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/9/2007 5:38 PM
zorba, are there any updates on your treatment? how are you doing these days? any extra results?

what do you think was the cause of your gray hair?

also, do you think copper applications would be usefull for someone with gray hair caused by stress or anxiety?

Posted By : Alessio - 9/12/2007 11:01 AM
If you can read www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/102/1/93.pdf it gives general info on BMP and its role in hair pigmentation. Also
www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1618597  gives more specific info on hair growth.

Posted By : Alessio - 9/13/2007 11:29 AM
I have post one question to the site Ask the geneticist, here is may question and the answer:

Question I`m 27 y old and prematurely grey. I have heard that gene therapy could soon be commercially available to restore the natural colour of the hair. So I was wondering how soon most likely, if even possible, will treatments like this be available? Are there any other commercially available treatments exept dyes?

Answer Gene therapy has been used in one study (published in 2000) to correct a mutation that causes albinism (and the loss of hair pigment) in albino mice. Hair pigmentation lasted about 3 months. An article summarizing the study can be found at: http://www.webmd.com/news/20000110/could-gene-therapy-make-gray-go-away . Although additional research is ongoing, applications in humans are likely several years away. You may wish to search at www.clinicaltrials.gov  for current studies on hair pigmentation restoration.

Posted By : Rob3 - 9/17/2007 11:12 AM
Hi What do you people think about this? www.suregamat.com It claims can restore color to the gray hair.

Posted By : likedarkhair - 9/17/2007 11:22 AM
Dear Folks
I have been reading your posts for while now. Very inspiring, I am amazed at some of your posts and I admire your enthusiasm to experiment. I have tried tons of things in the past to reverse to dark hair, with no success.
I have recently started using a laser comb purchased for close to a $100. It seems like some new dark hair is growing on the sides(?), but hair is certainly getting thicker. I am in my early forties, and determined to have dark hair till I am 80!

I found a product on the web-mag-gro, it seems promising. I wonder if anyone has tried it, do check out the testimonials
http://www.getnewhairnow.com/
LDH

Posted By : Alessio - 9/17/2007 5:42 PM
I have send one email to dr. Bruno Bernard the haed of L`Oreal hair science about when he expect that Auxins - Dihydroxyl-5,6-indole will e commercially available.

He do not know when this product will be available.

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/17/2007 9:46 PM

Alessio, guys, thank you for your participation!

 


Posted By : dLaertios - 9/19/2007 4:28 PM
http://www.getnewhairnow.com/
sounds promising but again the inventor has grey at least http://www.getnewhairnow.com/about.php .
Anyway I intend to order it as I believe that blood flow has to do with melanin production and that device will work to some extend.  Also have you observed that bald people with saved head have thinner skin to their balding areas?  Also, only two minutes a day is nothing I 'll put it to my desk to remember.

The other product seems promising too.
www.suregamat.com/index.html  - follow that link. Dirty cheap also. I would like to give it a try too.

Posted By : brm - 9/19/2007 6:05 PM
This mag gro thing is a derma roller 2.0 This deviceis well known to baldies. I don't use any roller but a glass dropper whose end I broke into a sharpened stimulator. I prickle my scalp five minutes a day with this aftr putting essential oils. Been doing so for one year. I can tell you that it doesn't do a thing against my grey. I think it helps before applying anti hairloss topicals though. It is a bit like the "scalp exercises" of Tom Hagherty or something..

Posted By : likedarkhair - 9/20/2007 10:33 AM
Magpro:
I am wondering if the magnet can attract blood to the area, and hence increase nutrient supply. It would the same as any other form of blood supply increase- vasodilators can also have that effect.
For that matter a low laser light should also work! Unless the magnet does something more.

Suregamat does sound good..

There is not too much information on either of them..

LDH

Posted By : Alessio - 9/20/2007 10:41 AM
Brm have you checked this L`Oreal product. How it works? Is it a colour?

dLaertios I doubt that blood flow has anything to do with melanin production, because my dermatologist said to me that my blood flow in head and scalp is high what is shown in redness of my skin when I do sport. But I so posted that it is connected with the baldness because I have head full of hair but they are going grey.

I have cut my hair today and I think that I have the same amount of grey hair then in january. Is it due to a lot of antioxidants and vitamin C? I also daily drink green tea and take vitamins for hair (with zinc, baker, and some other ingredients which sopposed to slow down the greying procces.

What do you think about the respond of dr. Bruno Bernard to my question? He don't know when auinxs will be available on the market but he hasn`t denied the existance of it.

Posted By : reverse - 9/20/2007 12:47 PM
I'm a bit confused:
 
L'Oreal's website has updated their hair science section to include this hopeful post:
 
"The strange and subtle chemistry of coloration is constantly evolving, and the desire to re-pigment white hair as naturally as possible has given birth to a radical new approach: biomimetics . This is by no means a misnomer since it actually does imitate a natural biological process, that of the final stage involved in creating melanin within the melanocytes . . . "

 
" . . . The use of precursors identical to those found in nature broadens the scope of possible colors, which may yet be extended even further by this type of recomposed natural pigments."

Sounds promising.

Alessio posted a link to a "pharmamed?" store that carries a product called L'Oreal Progress. I translated the description and this product contains dihydroxyindole. 

Now is this the big breakthrough from L'Oreal? I have not seen anything here in the States. Not even any marketing.

 

  



Posted By : Vincentvangogo - 9/20/2007 5:12 PM
DLaertios, the testimonials of the Suregamat look very dubious to me, suspiciously similar even in their grammatical mistakes. I clicked the 'authorize now, verfied seller' icon on the Getnewhairhow roller product and it said 'unable to verify merchant. I may be wrong but both look like scams to me.

Posted By : Alessio - 9/20/2007 5:42 PM
Reverse this is not the breakthrough from L`Oreal because this is not the same dihydroxyindole. And as I have said I have contacted Dr. Bruno Bernard the head of L`Oreal research and asked him when this molecule for melanin will be commercially available. And he does not know when it will be available.

http://www.antiaging-wellness.com/Pages/Treatments/Hair/grey_hair.php

On this site you can find some medical drugs to reverse grey hair, here is also something about AUXINS, the revulutionary discovery from L`Oreal. And that supposed to reversed grey hair and it is not yet commercially available. I do not know why, perhaps there are several side effects or what.

Posted By : likedarkhair - 9/20/2007 9:02 PM
Hi

Here is the reply for my questions form DC Anderson, the mag-gro inventor.
He claims that its the compression that does it!!

LDH
Read below
************************************************************************************************************
Subject: grey hair
:My email:
>Do you have any pictures. for before/after?
>
>Any more information on how color is restored?
>
>How is this device different from a low level laser that also
>increase blood flow to the hair?
>Thanks
>
REPLY
>Domain: www.getnewhairnow.com
Mag-Gro impacts the individual hair follicle in three ways, massage,
whole-earth magnetic field, and compression. The compression is what
impacts hair color the most.

Please read the attached article from Harvard University and you will
understand more about Mag-Gro impact on hair color.

A perfect example concerning the duplicitous nature of the hair care
industry would be your interest in seeing before and after pictures.
If you stop and think for second you will realize that NO hair
product on the market today - with the possible exception of Propecia
which is hormonal - will generate hair out of bald areas. None. So if
there is no new hair growth what good is a before and after pictures.
In fact, these pictures are all used to confuse the consumer and make
you think something is happening when it really isn't. In fact, by
using different types of lenses and varying the strength of the
flash, the "before and after" picture can be taken on the same day.

When I say hair I am referring to full size and fully pigmented hair.
Most of the minoxidil based products will generate vellis hair -
short white hairs that grow to 1/4" only - but they CAN NOT generate
full size and fully colored hair.

Mag-Gro will generate full size and fully pigmented hair. It will
increase hair shine and it will put color back into hair. (The later
happens slowly depending on how much color has been lost before you
begin using Mag-Gro.)

But if you really want a surprise, come to our home page and click
compare costs. That should make your decision very easy.

Regards,
D.C. Anderson

Posted By : AussieDavid - 9/21/2007 11:15 AM
likedarkhair said...
I found a product on the web-mag-gro, it seems promising. I wonder if anyone has tried it, do check out the testimonials
http://www.getnewhairnow.com/
LDH
Your posts sound like advertising. I notice you have only just joined the forum and your first posts are pushing another crappy product. Show us the science to back up the claims. If web-mag-gro was so good, we'd have heard about it in the mainstream media by now.
 
I hope nobody reading this forum is fooled by your marketing tactics.

Posted By : likedarkhair - 9/21/2007 9:09 PM
I am not trying to market any product, I was merely trying to share opinons on how different products work, I think I am entitled to that on this forum.

I have nothing to gain by advertising for any product!!

Posted By : reverse - 9/27/2007 2:35 PM
It's too bad L'Oreal won't reveal any info on when this product will be out.

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/27/2007 2:49 PM
another product - "Oleda Restorative Hair Color Helpers" :

http://www.oleda.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R90&OVRAW=reverse%20gray%20hair&OVKEY=reverse%20gray%20hair&OVMTC=standard&OVADID=953557022&OVKWID=4812836022

Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 9/27/2007 2:49 PM

Fyi: Brenda Cobb, the author of “The living food lifestyle” got rid of gray hair using her nutrition program:

> >

http://www.livingfoodsinstitute.com/aboutus.htm>>


Posted By : Taoist - 9/27/2007 2:52 PM

 

1- Your login name is "Ilikedarkhair"

2- Your posts sound like adverts.

3- The science behind the product sounds like BS.

3- If this product was even remotely successful, it would be taking the world by storm...

Reviewing the above points I would agree with AussieDavids comments....

 

likedarkhair said...
I am not trying to market any product, I was merely trying to share opinons on how different products work, I think I am entitled to that on this forum.

I have nothing to gain by advertising for any product!!

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 9/30/2007 11:20 PM
Taoist said...

3- If this product was even remotely successful, it would be taking the world by storm...


nono   The market success of a product is not determined only by the product's effectiveness. It often has more to do with advertising, politics and money. For example: Vioxx, a successful product by your standard.

If you really believe what you say, then why are you looking for an effective solution at lef.org? You should just wait for a product to take the world by storm. There are plenty of products taking the world by storm, but you won't find them here.


Posted By : likedarkhair - 9/30/2007 11:38 PM
Your login name Taoist, mine : likedarkhair- I don't think there is anything wrong with my login name.

You are free to agree or disagree with me it does not matter to me!!!

Posted By : modesto - 9/30/2007 11:39 PM
I bought this product about 6 months ago for my gray hair and used it as instructed for 3-4 months but I gave up because I didn't notice any spectacular difference.
At about the time I started using it I began for the first time in my life to have some
terrible headaches. It took me some time to make the connection but I soon figured out that it was because of this thing. Sure they stopped when I gave up using it.
This guy who makes it is funny and compares the cost of buying it to the cost of
using Propecia as if they are both equally effective in growing/keeping hair.
I have used many of the suggestions in this forum over the past year without any
success so far as far as reversal is concerned. You can't be sure about delaying
the greying process.  Currently I'm trying the Lac-Hydrin Retin A combination 3 times a week on wet hair.

Posted By : Alessio - 10/1/2007 3:29 PM
Is anyone using sage to dye his/her hair? How effective is sage? And how many grey hair can you max have to use this product?

Posted By : brm - 10/1/2007 4:56 PM
I do use sage. No result. I buy dry sage leaves. Simmer one cup of leaves with two cups of water for 1/2 hour.  Let the whole stuff sit for 10 hours. Rinse my hair 10 times in a row with this every four or five days.  I even don't rinse it off with clear water.  Been doing so for two months: not the least result. Hair is only slightly yellowish... Anyone else?

Posted By : dLaertios - 10/1/2007 7:22 PM
Reversing grey hair is more difficult that I initially thought.
The good thing is that I have a new healthier lifestyle.
winners never quit.

Posted By : Alessio - 10/2/2007 11:55 AM
dLaertios said...
Reversing grey hair is more difficult that I initially thought.
The good thing is that I have a new healthier lifestyle.
winners never quit.
But you have managed to reverse about 30% of your grey hair. That is a big achievement. How long has it take to achieve that kind of progress?
 
I`ve found one forum website about grey hair, and there is a post about discovering of dihydroxil-5,6-indole from L'Oreal, but this thread is more than 4 years old and so far no more info about this molecule have been posted from L'Oreal.

Posted By : Vincentvangogo - 10/2/2007 4:11 PM
I tried the sage for a while and didn't notice any change also.

Posted By : brm - 10/2/2007 4:43 PM
Vincentvangogo said...
I tried the sage for a while and didn't notice any change also.



How often did you use it? What concentration 1:2 sage - water? Did you rinse it off?

Posted By : dLaertios - 10/3/2007 10:55 AM
It took me about a year.  The bad think I believe that I see more grey in my facial.
Maybe the most useful item is colloidal copper on the scalp. Because I am afraid of losing hair - all this washing of scalp- I stopped colloidal copper for awhile and I try to experiment with supplements only.

Posted By : Vincentvangogo - 10/3/2007 7:10 PM
BRM I can't remember how long I used it for, maybe two months. I used it with rosemary also, as that was what I read helped. I'm guessing about 50% water, 25% sage and 25% rosemary and I also didn't rinse it off. Only difference I noticed was that I ended up smelling a bit like cooked chicken.

Posted By : reverse - 10/4/2007 12:59 PM
If anyone has a toll free number to L'oreal, I will call and ask about the auxins.

Posted By : Alessio - 10/4/2007 4:37 PM
I had sent today email to dr. Desmond Tobin:
Dear Dr. Tobin,

I have read the interwie you gave last year to Modern Medicine (Rebecca Bryant).

You said that white follicles taken from someone who has been grey-haired for a long time still have melanocytes. They are greatly reduced in number and dormant but manage to survive for decades. By exposing these melanocytes to peptides and/or chemicals you have persuaded them to repopulate and produce melanin — in vitro.

Could you please tell me if I started greying 5 years ago and as you have said that we could have a cure in decade or so, would my grey hair still have posibilltiy to reverse or not. Would my melanocytes still be present in hair bulb.

Thank you!

Here is his reply:
Regarding the timeline for the avilability of a product - this is likely to be
some time away still. Maybe 5-10 years. As you correctly say, even after
graying for some years, these hair follicles could respond and rep[igment.



What do you think is that optimistic or pesimistic prediction??????????
Is that matching with dr. Bruno Bernard claim, that product will be available in 2-7 years.
I hope that some cure will be commercially available much sooner!!!!!

Posted By : Alessio - 10/4/2007 4:37 PM
reverse said...
If anyone has a toll free number to L'oreal, I will call and ask about the auxins.
Reverse I believe that is the number from L`Oreal:
1-800-631-7358

Posted By : StarGazer - 10/5/2007 10:45 AM
Is Dr. Tobin with L'Oreal?  

Because if he is, and he's saying 5-10 years out, I would say that is very bad news.  about 4 years ago, they were saying 2-5 years or something like that. 

Bottom line is, it will be 20 years or so if that is the case.  Think I'm being overly pessimistic?  Consider this:
 
I first heard about melanotan in 1990.  The U. of Arizona was first to work on the melanotan project, and they told me in 1990 that they hoped to have something available in 3 years. 
 
Well, here we are 17 years later, and the company now working on Melanotan, Clinuvel, is still saying 3 years until commercialization. 
 
Don't hold your breath. 
 
Right now, I'm trying Retin-A and Lac-Hydrin.  If that doesn't work, it's probably either live with the grey or start the dye job.  And the dye job for me is a last resort given how fake it looks.  Men who dye their hair look ridiculous IMO.  Sorry, but it is so obvious on them. 

Posted By : Alessio - 10/5/2007 10:54 AM
I have a question for you guys.

If I understand a greying process and posibillity to reverse grey hair is that possible only untill then some melanocytes are still present in hair follicle. Scientists have discovered that grey hair still have melanocytes in early stages of greying. But how long usually melanocytes are in grey hair follicle before they die?

Am I right that grey hair have melanocytes until the hair turns white, and that could be for more than a decade??? Is reversal of grey hair possible also when hair contains no more melanocytes???

Posted By : Alessio - 10/5/2007 11:12 AM
StarGazer Dr. Tobin doesn not work for L`Oreal, he is a scientist at Bradfort University and he cooperate with Wella-German cosmetic company.  But his predictions are getting more and more optimistic; in 2003 he said that the cure will be available for the next generation. I had sent him email in january this year and he said that we could have the cure in more than a decade. Now he said 5-10 years. But he hasn`t denied that progress is happening and it is looking like it is happening very fast. I believe that because cosmetics companies are aware that there are several other companies which are trying to develop the cure, not by biological ways but with some genetic changes (stem cells), and that companies aren`t worried about loosing their profit on colour market, because they aren't producing dyes.

Posted By : ihoward - 10/5/2007 4:16 PM
Several years ago my mother was dating an elderly gentleman who drank what he called stinging nettle tea. He would grow and harvest the weed himself. Even though at the time he was in his 70's, he did not have a single grey hair on his head. What was weird was that he got my mother drinking it for her respiratory health and according to her, her hair also started growing in dark. When they broke up and she stopped drinking it, it turned gray again. She said it was so noticeable that it looked like a dark stripe when her hair grew out. I was not around during this time period, so I did not eyewitness this effect, however it was substantiated by other family members.
Since my hair was starting to turn grey, I figured I would give stinging nettle a try. Unfortunately, I did not have any luck with it and after several months, gave up on it. I always wondered if it really was stinging nettle or if it was something else. The gentleman came from another country (the Ukraine) and perhaps he got his herb names confused. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

Posted By : brm - 10/5/2007 5:26 PM
Alessio, the mast thing I've read about this was that melanocytes were still present in hair follicles but that they reached a phase of dormancy because of a kind of genetic bug that induced them into no longer coloring the hair stem. The trouble is: how to get our genes to not alter this melanocyte function. So a white hair should be liable to get colored again if a cure is found. That's what I understood...
Stargazer, I agree that hair dye is not good looking with men. Why don't you try grecian 2000 or L'Oreal progress or Just for men?

Posted By : AussieDavid - 10/6/2007 1:08 PM
I stumbled across the following newspaper article from 2006 while doing a google search on Loreal. Not sure if it's been posted before, but it talks about some of the things people are discussing here.
 
 
 
I modified my vitamin program considerably about 2 months ago. I think I was taking too many pills. I have tried to implement as many things as possible that are reported to reverse grey hair. In the last 2 weeks I have found 3 hairs that have definite reversal....dark base and grey tip. I suspect this will be a very long process, but the fact that I have seen with my own eyes on several occasions, hairs that have reversed colour, I know that reversal is possible. I don't know if ALL grey hairs can have their colour restored. I don't even know exactly which part of my program has caused the reversal on the hairs I have noticed.
 
Here is my entire program. I have highlighted in bold type the things that I think may affect grey hair.
 
Daily Supplement Program
Morning Midday Evening
Proscar 2.5mg Protein Drink 30g Protein LEF Mix Tabs (9/day formula) 3
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula 1     Super EPA/DHA 2000mg
LEF Mix Tabs (9/day formula) 3     Advanced Natural Prostate Formula 1
Super EPA/DHA 2000mg Seven Treasures (Fo-Ti) 1
Seven Treasures (Fo-Ti) 1     Protein Drink 30g Protein
Gamma E Tocopherol 1     Glutamine 1g
Ashwagandha Extract 125mg        
Super Zeaxanthin 35mg        
IGF Solutions 5mg        
Protein Drink 30g Protein        
1 Spoonful Blackstrap Molasses in
a cup of warm milk
         
       
Hair Topicals
 Lavender infused water with 1% Clove
Oil.
Misted on to hair and scalp after morning and evening shower (before Minox).
Lavendar is supposed to stimulate hair growth.
Eugenol (Clove Bud) is supposed to reverse grey hair)
8% Minoxidil & 0.015% Retinoic Acid 1ml Applied to Dry Scalp morning and evening
15% Minox + Azaelic Acid 0.5ml Applied to hairline evenings only
Spironactane Cream 5% Applied to hairline morning and evening at least 30 mins after minox.
Hormones
Trans-D-Tropin (GH Stimulant) 15 Drops Applied 3 times/day to forearms. Mon-Fri only.
 
I also use Nizoral 2% shampoo twice a week and on the other days, I use Surya Brazil Nut Shampoo and Alchemy Contitioner, both of which are free of sodium laurel sulfate.
 
I found some posts on another forum which mention folligen and tricomin, both of which have copper peptides in them....some have good reports, others say those products aren't worth the money.
 
 
Another thing perhaps worth mentioning is Emu Oil. Google 'Emu Oil' and 'grey hair' and there are some interesting results.

Posted By : Alessio - 10/6/2007 1:08 PM
Some of you are talking about Melanotan, but I haven`t found any conection about Melanotan and grey hair. Is not just for skin to get darken and so prevent or decrease the possibility of our skin to get sun burn?

StarGazer can you provide the link of Melanotan?

Posted By : StarGazer - 10/7/2007 11:38 PM
Melanotan does not turn grey hair back to its natural color. 
 
It did however, dramatically darken my beard when I got some off the black market.  Many others reported the same thing.  When I say 'darken,' I don't mean it turned grey beard hair to its natural color.  I mean it took my brownish stubble and darkened it several shades.  Why it does that on the beard and not the top of the head, I'm not sure.
 
Just do a search for Melanotan and it will lead you to some info sites.  The FDA has shut down several US suppliers of Melanotan in recent weeks. 

Clinuvel is developing the drug right now.  They are located in Melbourne.

Posted By : dang - 10/7/2007 11:48 PM
so is nobody going to try keracyte? it's awfully expensive, but from what i can tell it's one of the more promising products out there based on the effects the ingredients have on the skin.

Posted By : Alessio - 10/7/2007 11:49 PM
AussieDavid the article you have posted was published in May 2004. The last comment on this article was added in 2006!!
AussieDavid said...
I stumbled across the following newspaper article from 2006 while doing a google search on Loreal. Not sure if it's been posted before, but it talks about some of the things people are discussing here.
 
 
 
I modified my vitamin program considerably about 2 months ago. I think I was taking too many pills. I have tried to implement as many things as possible that are reported to reverse grey hair. In the last 2 weeks I have found 3 hairs that have definite reversal....dark base and grey tip. I suspect this will be a very long process, but the fact that I have seen with my own eyes on several occasions, hairs that have reversed colour, I know that reversal is possible. I don't know if ALL grey hairs can have their colour restored. I don't even know exactly which part of my program has caused the reversal on the hairs I have noticed.
 
Here is my entire program. I have highlighted in bold type the things that I think may affect grey hair.
 
Daily Supplement Program
Morning Midday Evening
Proscar 2.5mg Protein Drink 30g Protein LEF Mix Tabs (9/day formula) 3
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula 1     Super EPA/DHA 2000mg
LEF Mix Tabs (9/day formula) 3     Advanced Natural Prostate Formula 1
Super EPA/DHA 2000mg Seven Treasures (Fo-Ti) 1
Seven Treasures (Fo-Ti) 1     Protein Drink 30g Protein
Gamma E Tocopherol 1     Glutamine 1g
Ashwagandha Extract 125mg        
Super Zeaxanthin 35mg        
IGF Solutions 5mg        
Protein Drink 30g Protein        
1 Spoonful Blackstrap Molasses in
a cup of warm milk
         
       
Hair Topicals
 Lavender infused water with 1% Clove
Oil.
Misted on to hair and scalp after morning and evening shower (before Minox).
Lavendar is supposed to stimulate hair growth.
Eugenol (Clove Bud) is supposed to reverse grey hair)
8% Minoxidil & 0.015% Retinoic Acid 1ml Applied to Dry Scalp morning and evening
15% Minox + Azaelic Acid 0.5ml Applied to hairline evenings only
Spironactane Cream 5% Applied to hairline morning and evening at least 30 mins after minox.
Hormones
Trans-D-Tropin (GH Stimulant) 15 Drops Applied 3 times/day to forearms. Mon-Fri only.
 
I also use Nizoral 2% shampoo twice a week and on the other days, I use Surya Brazil Nut Shampoo and Alchemy Contitioner, both of which are free of sodium laurel sulfate.
 
I found some posts on another forum which mention folligen and tricomin, both of which have copper peptides in them....some have good reports, others say those products aren't worth the money.
 
 
Another thing perhaps worth mentioning is Emu Oil. Google 'Emu Oil' and 'grey hair' and there are some interesting results.


Posted By : Tom. - 10/9/2007 12:13 PM
That was a really informative and interesting link you posted. The only thing that worries me is the subcutaneous injection. I'm not really fond of injecting myself with needles and the risks if done incorrectly. Can this be taken orally?

Thanks

Posted By : xtian - 10/9/2007 5:38 PM
Please guys do not use that product!!!! it's really dangerous, there are people in serious trouble for that, going blind and being harmed by it.

Posted By : Alessio - 10/10/2007 12:27 PM
Here is an interesting article:

http://archive.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/2003/8/5/109508.html

Posted By : reverse - 10/10/2007 1:59 PM
I think 5-10 years is the standard answer for these companies and scientists. I emailed Dr Des Tobin over a year ago and i got a 5-10 year answer...so why, at this point, wouldn't it be 4-9 years? i bet 5 years from now, it will still be, guess what, 5-10 years away.

Posted By : StarGazer - 10/11/2007 10:52 AM
xtian -
 
What is your agenda?  I have to wonder since you've only posted here twice, and you come out with this outlandish claim that Melanotan causes blindness.   
 
There is ABSOLUTELY no evidence that Melanotan causes blindness.  There has not been 1 case of that.  That claim is so irresponsible, it is ridiculous. 
 
And if you're referring to someone's claim on another board that Melanotan causes eye damage, there is NO scientific evidence of that, either. 

Now, who should people believe?  The researchers who have tested this drug in formal testing environments, or someone who out of the blue irresponsibly posts that Melanotan causes blindness? 

I am not advocating that people take Melanotan, given that it is not approved by the FDA yet.  But, the drug is in Phase III trials across several countries in Europe, and it will be in Phase III trials in Australia very soon. Anyone with any intelligence would realize the drug would not have progressed this far if it was not shown to be safe up to this point. 
 
The regulators in both Europe and Australia have not found any serious side effects with this drug to date.  And anyone who says otherwise does not know the facts.  Period.
 
 

Posted By : Alessio - 10/11/2007 10:58 AM
Reverse u have a point. They all give us 5-10 years answer. In 1997 Des Tobin said 10 years or more and the cure will be commercially available. Other scientists I have asked they said that the cure will be on the market in some or several years- so 5-10 years again.

http://web.ncf.ca/aj624/greyhair.html

Posted By : Alessio - 10/11/2007 10:59 AM
But if the cure won`t be available witin 10 years then I believe it is too late for us who started greying a few years ago, because melanocytes don`t survive so long in grey hair.

Am I right?

Posted By : xtian - 10/11/2007 5:21 PM
Stargazer,
how many posts do you think a person should do, to be able to warn others of the potential harming of a hormone injection sold on internet without any legal approval????

Because, you should know this, nobody is going to have any effect by simply swallowing a pill. Melanotan must be taken by a self injection.... Simply this should make people less irresponsible...

And, do you really think, for the brightest of your very personal intelligence, that REALLY the "simple" fact of a researcher telling you that a drug has been tested is enough to make you swallow it with joy and without any suspect?

And what about FDA approval???? wasn't LIPOBAY approved? Isn't NIMESULIDE still on the market???? Did you ever read about VIOXX????? How many others should I mention? Did you ever read ANY drug sheet where the side effects are written??? WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD PEOPLE BELIEVE???? To a world of researchers and drug companies addicted to make business of the people suffering
or to a reasonable suggestion that, maybe, injecting yourself with a hormone isn't really the safest thing to do for REVERSING GREY HAIR (we are not talking about curing a severe illness)????

Now, there are cases of people that, after taking Melanotan for a while are getting harmed by the product. And if this isn't still enough for your brilliant intelligence, read this http://philadelphia.injuryboard.com

Now my posts are 3, do you think they're enough, or do you prefer to hear of a member of this forum claiming he's been harmed by the drug?
p.s. I'm sorry that my english isn't good as yours, but this is not my mother language.

Posted By : StarGazer - 10/12/2007 10:58 AM

This is my last post about Melanotan, because this is a forum for grey hair, not tanning. 

The link you provided shows some attorney (see ambulance chancer) page about latest FDA warnings, etc.  There is nothing there that I did not already know about.  The FDA is trying to stop illegal sale of Melanotan in the U.S.   That is nothing new to me - I knew about that last month. The FDA never condones illegal sales of a drug that they have not yet approved.

For your information, the FDA has never said Melanotan is dangerous. The FDA has tried to stop someone in Tennessee from marketing Melanotan because it has not been approved yet.  I can't argue with the FDA's response on that. 

The FDA is expected to give the green light to formal clinical testing of Melanotan in the United States within 6 months (it could be much sooner than that).  Of course, they are allowing this because they want to see how many U.S. citizens will become blinded by the drug trial, right?  

Now, show us the link that has proof that Melanotan causes blindness.  There is no proof of that - not even 1 documented case worldwide.

I have been studying Melanotan and following its research since 1990.  Your post about it causing blindness without any documented proof was irresponsible on a public forum.  It was so ludicrous, it was probably not even worthy of a response from anyone.  But, unfortunately, there are a few people who actually believe what they hear, regardless of the source.

If you want to try to persuade others to avoid using Melanotan before it is proven safe by the FDA, I have no problem with that.  But, if you're going to go around spreading false rumors about drugs, that blows all your credibility. 



Posted By : modesto - 10/12/2007 11:09 AM
This Patent published just last year looks really interesting and very promising. It uses grape seed extract topically for reversing grey hair and the inventors seem to know what they are talking about and sound very confident.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20060147567.html

Here are some extracts:
-"The present invention relates to methods of increasing tyrosinase synthesis, expression, or activity in a cell comprising administering at least one grape seed extract to the cell."

-"In another embodiment, the invention provides a method that includes topically applying a composition of GSE and a cosmetically suitable vehicle to the scalp of a mammal or other location where gray hair is present, to increase tyrosinase gene expression or melanin synthesis and thereby decrease gray appearance."

I bought some Grape Seed Extract the other day so I am going to try this immediately (daily) and see if anything happens in about 3 months. I will keep using the topical Lac-Hydrin Retin-A 3 times a week.

Posted By : Alessio - 10/12/2007 11:13 AM
I don`t know if this was posted already but it is very it is worth to read it true:

Hair Depigmentation Is a Biological Readout for Pharmacological Inhibition of KIT in Mice and Humans

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/307/2/476/FIG6

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/307/2/476#FIG6

Posted By : Alessio - 10/12/2007 1:10 PM
Here are three question and three answers from one hair scientist:

1. I have recently read that grey hair in the beggining of greying process still
have melanocytes and then they eventually die and hair turns white. Is that
true?

ANSWER: YES


2. Some scientists claim that as long as a few melanocytes are there they could
reverse the whitening process by reactivating these cells (someday in the
future).

ANSWER: MAYBE

3. So could you please tell me if the hair follicle have no more melanocytes
(they all die off) the reversal would no longer be possible or it would
still be possible?

ANSWER: MOST LIKELY

What that most likely mean that it is still possible or not?????????????

Posted By : Alessio - 10/13/2007 11:31 AM
If I understand the scientists from L`Oreal, P&G and others they have allready succesfully reversed grey hair that they have grown in lab, but one of the major probem is that how to penetrate so large moolecule 4 mm down to reach the melanocytes. So other approaches have to be developed based on small molecules that could easily penetrate the skin.

Because the scope of interventions available to the cosmetics industry is broadly limited to topical solutions; otherwise, therapies risk classification as drugs.

Posted By : xtian - 10/14/2007 8:49 PM
Dear stargazer, so it comes out you're one of those that are behind the product... I could have bet that!
This explains more than any other argument.... PERIOD

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 10/14/2007 8:51 PM
Alessio said...
If I understand the scientists from L`Oreal, P&G and others they have allready succesfully reversed grey hair that they have grown in lab, but one of the major probem is that how to penetrate so large moolecule 4 mm down to reach the melanocytes. ....
They could use needles (such as tattoo guns or the dermaroller) to inject the product 4mm deep over a wide area. They could offer the product through doctors and skin clinics.

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 10/14/2007 8:51 PM
AussieDavid said...
I also use Nizoral 2% shampoo twice a week ...
According to Dr. Jonathan Wright, even minimal contact with topical or oral Nizoral (Ketoconazole) will cause levels of DHEA hormone to drop in a big way. If I recall correctly, NIzoral will completely wipe out DHEA.
 
I have used the shampoo and liked it, but I stopped when I got the info about DHEA. If you must use the shampoo, maybe you can replace the DHEA with supplements.
 
 
 

Posted By : AussieDavid - 10/15/2007 10:53 AM
StinkyJoe said...
AussieDavid said...
I also use Nizoral 2% shampoo twice a week ...
According to Dr. Jonathan Wright, even minimal contact with topical or oral Nizoral (Ketoconazole) will cause levels of DHEA hormone to drop in a big way. If I recall correctly, NIzoral will completely wipe out DHEA.
 
I have used the shampoo and liked it, but I stopped when I got the info about DHEA. If you must use the shampoo, maybe you can replace the DHEA with supplements.
 
 
 
It's a vicous circle......I'm using the Nizoral to help stop hair loss. I've supplemented with DHEA in the past and I believe that was responsible for accelerating my hair loss in the period I was taking it.....thus I ended up adding the Nizoral to my program.

Posted By : cdkona - 10/15/2007 11:01 AM
modesto said...
This Patent published just last year looks really interesting and very promising. It uses grape seed extract topically for reversing grey hair and the inventors seem to know what they are talking about and sound very confident.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20060147567.html

Here are some extracts:
-"The present invention relates to methods of increasing tyrosinase synthesis, expression, or activity in a cell comprising administering at least one grape seed extract to the cell."

-"In another embodiment, the invention provides a method that includes topically applying a composition of GSE and a cosmetically suitable vehicle to the scalp of a mammal or other location where gray hair is present, to increase tyrosinase gene expression or melanin synthesis and thereby decrease gray appearance."

I bought some Grape Seed Extract the other day so I am going to try this immediately (daily) and see if anything happens in about 3 months. I will keep using the topical Lac-Hydrin Retin-A 3 times a week.
I wonder if the "tyrosinase synthesis" has the same potential risks as tyrosine supplements relative to development of melanomas?  I guess since it's topical that risk would be isolated to the scalp areas it is applied to.  Interesting, please keep us posted!

Posted By : Alessio - 10/15/2007 12:56 PM
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20070077215.html?highlight=caniti&stemming=on

Another patent promoting repigmentation of the hair

Posted By : reverse - 10/15/2007 1:09 PM
I thought liposomes were able to penetrate the scalp?

Posted By : zorba990 - 10/15/2007 4:41 PM
Tom said...
That was a really informative and interesting link you posted. The only thing that worries me is the subcutaneous injection. I'm not really fond of injecting myself with needles and the risks if done incorrectly. Can this be taken orally?

Thanks
I would guess that the proper amount mixed with DMSO would be as effective as injection.  LEF sells a DMSO gel.
 
The common side effects I've read from the Melanotan board include nausea and hyperpigmentation.  I believe that hyperpigmentation is more prevelant with MTII than MTI but I'd just go join the MT board if you are interested in finding out more.
 
I still think the stimulation of melanocytes is at best a temporary fix.  Stimulating more stem cell production to replace the damaged/dying/dead melanocytes along with large amounts of oral and topical antioxidants to extend the lifespan of the current melanocytes seems key.
 
 

Posted By : Alessio - 10/17/2007 10:45 AM
zorba990 said...

 
I would guess that the proper amount mixed with DMSO would be as effective as injection.  LEF sells a DMSO gel.
 
The common side effects I've read from the Melanotan board include nausea and hyperpigmentation.  I believe that hyperpigmentation is more prevelant with MTII than MTI but I'd just go join the MT board if you are interested in finding out more.
 
I still think the stimulation of melanocytes is at best a temporary fix.  Stimulating more stem cell production to replace the damaged/dying/dead melanocytes along with large amounts of oral and topical antioxidants to extend the lifespan of the current melanocytes seems key.
 
 
Zorba990 you seem to have a lot of knowledge about stem cell treatments. What do you think when such treatments could be commercially available, because correct me if I am wrong this research is still in the lab and they don`t have immediate plans to take it in the clinic. And do you think that white hair (without melanocytes) could still reverse back to its original colour? Thanks!

Posted By : zorba990 - 10/17/2007 7:03 PM
Alessio said...
zorba990 said...

 
I would guess that the proper amount mixed with DMSO would be as effective as injection.  LEF sells a DMSO gel.
 
The common side effects I've read from the Melanotan board include nausea and hyperpigmentation.  I believe that hyperpigmentation is more prevelant with MTII than MTI but I'd just go join the MT board if you are interested in finding out more.
 
I still think the stimulation of melanocytes is at best a temporary fix.  Stimulating more stem cell production to replace the damaged/dying/dead melanocytes along with large amounts of oral and topical antioxidants to extend the lifespan of the current melanocytes seems key.
 
 
Zorba990 you seem to have a lot of knowledge about stem cell treatments. What do you think when such treatments could be commercially available, because correct me if I am wrong this research is still in the lab and they don`t have immediate plans to take it in the clinic. And do you think that white hair (without melanocytes) could still reverse back to its original colour? Thanks!
 
There are several supplements (mostly what LEF reccomends) which will boost your own production.  I believe there is a list earlier in this thread.
 
There was a company, TriStem,  that claimed to treat your own blood cells, turning them into stem cells -- http://www.worldhealth.net/p/416,4808.html .  Here is the company's FAQ,http://www.tristemcorp.com/faq.htm and a link to human trial, http://www.hsipl.com/  with patients treated http://www.hsipl.com/pages/solutions_sct_patients.html.  Treatment for hair loss, graying,
and other general antiaging seems possible but they would probably need a solid business case to proceed with trials.
 
 
 

Post Edited (zorba990) : 10/17/2007 9:53:59 PM (GMT-4)


Posted By : TP - 10/22/2007 11:30 AM
I appologize for interupting, but was reading a post by lei.talk about creatine supplement protocol; and zorba999 seemed knowledgable in that conversation. I wondered if you could direct me to sources for valine, taurine and dextrose.

Posted By : Alessio - 10/29/2007 10:28 AM
I found this article today. It was released on 7/24/1999, and here Dr. Bruno Bernard claimed that it is reasonable that the product will be out in 5-10 years. His prediction is still on target but I think that they just all love that answer: 5-10 years devil
reverse said...
I think 5-10 years is the standard answer for these companies and scientists. I emailed Dr Des Tobin over a year ago and i got a 5-10 year answer...so why, at this point, wouldn't  it be 4-9 years? i bet 5 years from now, it will still be, guess what, 5-10 years away.

Posted By : Alessio - 10/29/2007 10:31 AM
Here is the link:

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss-articles/abst-86.htm

Posted By : dLaertios - 11/4/2007 10:14 PM
http://www.antiaging-wellness.com/Pages/Treatments/Hair/grey_hair.php
 
I remember someone saying that he would use topical application of clove oil. What happened?
 
I'll try to use clove oil for topical. The strong smell is an issue that prevented me from further use but

Eugenol Oil - the principal active ingredient in cloves and clove oil, applied topically to the scalp has been demonstrated to restore hair color.

it seems that worth trying.

 

Retin-A combined with AHA

Has anyone managed to make topical following this remedy?


Posted By : Alessio - 11/6/2007 5:28 PM
Long-term hair repigmentation following a hair transplant for frontal scarring alopecia.

CASE REPORT

Australasian Journal of Dermatology. 48(4):236-238, November 2007.
Dinh, Hope V 1; Sinclair, Rodney 1; Martinick, Jennifer 2
Abstract:
SUMMARY: A 57-year-old woman developed repigmentation of white donor hairs 9 months after undergoing hair transplantation for an area of frontal scarring alopecia present since childhood. The hairs have remained repigmented more than 2 years post transplant. We discuss possible mechanisms underlying long-term follicular repigmentation of white hairs.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 11/6/2007 8:28 PM
dLaertios said...
I remember someone saying that he would use topical application of clove oil. What happened?
I have been trying a topical solution of clove oil in lavendar hydrosol. I've also been taking herbs and vitamins such as Ashwagandha, Vital treasures (Fo-ti, Eclipta Alba, Ligustrum, alma fruit), LEF multi. I've also been taking blackstrap molasses.
 
I have found probably 10 hairs in the past few weeks that have definite reversal....black base and grey tip. I don't think that the greying has stopped though, I'm just getting some reversal. I've also just added Tricomin to my regime. It has copper peptides in it and a few people on hairlosstalk.com are using it to help prevent hair loss. There were a couple of posts there that said it helped with grey hair. I'll try it for 6 months and see how I go.
 

Posted By : BartSimpson - 11/7/2007 11:38 AM

Good Morning,

I tried PABA for a couple monhts, but it didnt work out.

Also, B Complex and other vitamins

My head has got many more gray hairs :(

 

------------------------------

 

Curso de inglês por imersão http://www.englishisland.com.br


Posted By : zorba990 - 11/7/2007 8:06 PM
BartSimpson said...

Good Morning,

I tried PABA for a couple monhts, but it didnt work out.

Also, B Complex and other vitamins

My head has got many more gray hairs :(

 

------------------------------

 

Curso de inglês por imersão http://www.englishisland.com.br

I think paba and other Bs will only help if all you are missing are co-factors.  Those that are copper, vitamin d, glutathione, sulfur, histidine, tyrosine, zinc, etc deficient will not benefit.
I'm starting to think many more people are histidine deprived than I originally thought.  I think it is also related to hair loss which may be due to the metal (specifically) nickel chelating ability of histidine.  Unless suffering from mental illness, allergies, or unresolved histamine related inflammation, 500-1500 mg histidine a day for a year or two might be worth a try. (The theory being that lifetime of nickel buildup is tying up dietary histidine and there is little left over to do other work).  I'd be very interested to see a study that uses healthy, elderly patients with histidine supplementation that measures excreted metal content.
 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By : mermedia2 - 11/15/2007 11:34 AM
This company Compassionet sells a product called toki color that is supposed to help support hair color. I have not tried it but I have tried their collagen skin product and it was quite nice but expensive.

http://www.compassionet.com/products/lanelabs-supplement-TOKI_Color-natural-hair-color.asp

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 11/18/2007 7:07 PM

In Germany and surrounding countries, Schwarzkopf sells a hair-color product called "Re-Nature 1st Grey," with Dihydroxyindoline HBR as the active ingredient.  Does that ingredient sound familiar?
idea

It appears that you shampoo it in, and then your hair darkens gradually over 5 days from exposure to the air.  It takes several applications to restore the full color. Would this be a gentler alternative to Grecian Formula, etc?  Here is the official page:  http://www.renature.schwarzkopf.com/

Ingredients:  Aqua, Cetearyl Alcohol, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Coconut Alcohol, Sodium Laureth-6 Carboxylate, Lauryl Glucoside, Dihydroxyindoline HBR, Octyldodecanol, Ceteareth-12, Ceteareth-20, Sodium Bicarbonat, Sodium Carbonate, Ammonium Hydroxide, Acrylamidopropyltrimonium Chloride/Acrylate Copolymer, Methylparaben, Ascorbic Acid, Arginine, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Parfum, Benzyl Salicylate, Linalool, Citronellol, Geraniol, MICA, CI 77491, CI 77891.

There are different products for men and women.  The "Re-Nature 1st Grey" products are for people with with fewer greys (up to 30%?), and the "Re-Nature" products are for people with more greys (over 50%?).

Here is a link to more info from a seller in Germany (you may have to paste the link into your browser):

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.rossmann.de/DesktopModules/WebShop/shopdisplayproducts.aspx%3Fid%3D1275%26cat%3DRe-%2BPigmentierung&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DSchwarzkopf%2B%2Brossmann%2B%2522Re%2BNature%2B%2522%2Bsite:rossmann.de%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG%26as_qdr%3Dall

This seller will not ship to the USA.  Any idea how to get this in the USA?  Has anyone tried this? 

Here is a nice English-language FAQ from a New Zealand store that sells the original Re-Nature (not the 1st Grey):  http://www.pharmacydirect.co.nz/default.aspx?i=5071

Post Edited (StinkyJoe) : 11/24/2007 12:46:30 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : AussieDavid - 11/19/2007 7:18 PM
StinkyJoe said...

In Germany and surrounding countries, Schwarzkopf sells a hair-color product called "Re-Nature 1st Grey," with Dihydroxyindoline HBR as the active ingredient.  Does that ingredient sound familiar?
idea  

That product is also sold in Australia. I have tried it and wouldn't waste my money buying it again. The colour washes out within a week and it also gave my hair a slight blue/purple tint.

Posted By : brm - 11/19/2007 7:18 PM
Why not take grecian? Is there still lead in the formulation? Were they not to change this? 
 
I think Schwartzkopf's Renature uses the same mechanism as L'oreal's Progress. Maybe you can get the latter more easily???

It would be nice to have some feedback from users of either product. Can these products harm hair?

Posted By : Oasiss - 11/23/2007 12:36 PM
Searched a lot, but as far as i know, there is no obvious cure for gray hair. there are temporary solutions like restorai, grecian etc. to dye hair, forget about it. there is a fruit called amla (amalaki). i can't find it where i am living, but i want to try. anyway, i am 27 and i have %50 gray hair which means within 2-3 years lots of gray in my hair. previously i couldn't even look at the mirror. but i think we should get used to live this hairs.

Posted By : StarGazer - 11/23/2007 1:27 PM

I would like to see a few of us try Goji Berries for grey hair.   I might order some soon.

I had posted about this before, and forgot about the berries, but there was a recent article on Yahoo about the 10 best foods you can eat, and Goji berries were ranked with this URL:

http://www.gojiberries.us

I have tried Retin-A + Hydroxin the past 3 months, and it has not helped.  I had posted the patent here on this board before.  I've also given up on He Shou Wu. 

 

 



Posted By : zorba990 - 11/23/2007 7:47 PM
End of stem cell wars soon approches

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/22/science/22stem.html?em&ex=1195966800&en=3d24427925954325&ei=5087%0A

Posted By : StinkyJoe - 11/25/2007 8:45 PM
AussieDavid said...
That product is also sold in Australia. I have tried it and wouldn't waste my money buying it again. The colour washes out within a week and it also gave my hair a slight blue/purple tint.
AussieDavid, Did you use the the original "Re-Nature" or the new "Re-Nature 1st Grey"?
brm said...
Why not take grecian? Is there still lead in the formulation? Were they not to change this? 
 
I think Schwartzkopf's Renature uses the same mechanism as L'oreal's Progress. Maybe you can get the latter more easily???

It would be nice to have some feedback from users of either product. Can these products harm hair?
brm, Grecian Formula and similar products still have bad ingredients, such as lead acetate or p-phenylenediamine.  You are right. Schwartzkopf "Re-Nature" and "Re-Nature 1st Grey" use the same mechanism as L'Oreal Progress. I could not find reviews for "Re-Nature 1st Grey" since it is new.  The other products have mostly good reviews.
 
Here are some links. You probably have to copy the links into your browser:
 
L'Oreal Progress Homme reviews:
Another L'Oreal Progress Homme review:
Schwartzkopf Re-Nature 1st Grey FAQ:
Schwartzkopf Re-Nature reviews:
Schwartzkopf Re-Nature information (in German)

www.renature.eu/

Schwartzkopf Re-Nature Ingredients:

Aqua, Ceraryl Alcohol, Coconut Alcohol, Sodium Laureth-6 Carboxylate, Sodium Myreth Sulfate, Lauryl Glucoside, Octyldodecanol, Ceteareth-12, Ceteareth-20, 5,6-Dihydroxyindoline HBR, Arginine, Ammonium Hydroxide, Ascorbic Acid, Parfum, Geraniol, Citronellol, Linalool, Benzylsalicylate

 Has anyone else tried these products? Please let us know.


Posted By : StinkyJoe - 11/25/2007 9:11 PM
:-)   zinc/copper balance on scalp  :-)  
 
Like others here, I have very low zinc in my blood and very high zinc in my hair. I tried adding topical copper to my scalp to correct the zinc/copper balance, but it was too much trouble. Instead of adding copper, it might work better to remove the excess zinc.
 
Is there something that will gently remove the excess zinc from my hair follicles? Maybe some kind of topical chelation or swimmer's shampoo? What chelates zinc?

Posted By : Slider - 11/25/2007 9:27 PM

Have tried goji beries, blackstrap molasses, Foti, B vitamins, chelated magnesium, Brewers yeast, Ashwaganda = no reversal.

Disapointed not to have heard something by now of Valerie Randal's work at Bradford University.

The answer to grey hair reversal seems to be many years away.


Posted By : zorba990 - 11/26/2007 10:41 AM
StinkyJoe said...
:-)   zinc/copper balance on scalp  :-)  
 
Like others here, I have very low zinc in my blood and very high zinc in my hair. I tried adding topical copper to my scalp to correct the zinc/copper balance, but it was too much trouble. Instead of adding copper, it might work better to remove the excess zinc.
 
Is there something that will gently remove the excess zinc from my hair follicles? Maybe some kind of topical chelation or swimmer's shampoo? What chelates zinc?
High hair zinc could be from environmental factors.  In particular, several shampoos will cause this.

Posted By : AussieDavid - 11/26/2007 10:35 PM
StinkyJoe said...
:-)   zinc/copper balance on scalp  :-)  
 
Like others here, I have very low zinc in my blood and very high zinc in my hair. I tried adding topical copper to my scalp to correct the zinc/copper balance, but it was too much trouble. Instead of adding copper, it might work better to remove the excess zinc.
 
Is there something that will gently remove the excess zinc from my hair follicles? Maybe some kind of topical chelation or swimmer's shampoo? What chelates zinc?
High hair zinc is caused by low blood zinc. It sounds weird, but I have been told this by 2 doctors. Maybe if you take a zinc supplement and increase your blood zinc levels, your hair zinc levels will decrease.
StinkyJoe said...
AussieDavid, Did you use the the original "Re-Nature" or the new "Re-Nature 1st Grey"?
The one I tried was Schawarzkopf Re-Nature. I first saw it here just over a year ago.
 

Posted By : StarGazer - 11/28/2007 11:51 AM
As mentioned above, what is L'oreal Progress?   Is it just another hair colorant from L'oreal?

Is it available in the U.S.?  If not, why not? 
 
thx.
 
I feel your pain, guys.  Gettin' greyer by the day.

Posted By : reverse - 11/29/2007 2:28 PM

I just don't get it. There have been patents going back to the 80's and all we have available to us is hair dyes! Nothing new?

What really confuses me is something I stumbled upon while researching the net. It's a method used to darken hair. It's used for hair removal, to darken white or very light hair so the laser can pick up the hair and shaft to remove it. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? If so, how does this make sense? Why is our only alternative hair dye?


Posted By : StarGazer - 11/29/2007 7:36 PM
Same goes for naturally tanning the skin, reverse. There are lots of patents on that as well, and there have been for 20 years, but no company can produce (or is willing to produce) such a product.

We sent a man to the moon in 1969. Almost 40 years later, we still cannot reverse grey hair or get tan skin (with an approved product).

Now, what is more important? Our personal vanity, or sending manned spaceships into orbit?

C'mon, society - vanity is always top priority! We must get the chicks!

Posted By : DDye - 11/29/2007 7:38 PM
What's wrong with untanned, "white" skin?

Posted By : brm - 11/29/2007 7:38 PM
Reverse, what is this method to darken body hair (for laser removal)?

Posted By : zorba990 - 11/29/2007 11:43 PM
DDye said...
What's wrong with untanned, "white" skin?
I'm still wondering if supplementing D3 is as good as having it form in the skin from sunlight.  Until recently (on a historical scale), humans likely spent the majority of waking hours outside.  The tendency to view extremely pale skin as 'unhealthy' may be a built in program that evaluates the value of potential mates.
 
 

Posted By : DDye - 11/29/2007 11:47 PM
Could be cultural, too. During the previous centuries a tan was a sign of belonging to the working class, bent over in the sun. Now people use the term redneck to describe Caucasian agricultural workers.

Concerning your question, however, vitamin D3 supplements have been demonstrted to elevate 25-hydroxyvitamin D. If you want to get your vitamin D from the sun, you may need less exposure than what triggers the protective (tanning) reaction.

Posted By : StarGazer - 12/5/2007 10:42 AM
Well, I've tried a lot of different things for my greying hair - all to no avail.

I did the dirty deed today - I went to the Just for Men website out of curiosity. It got me wondering if I should give in to something I never thought I'd do - color my hair.

Has anyone out there tried Just for Men, and if so, were they pleased or displeased with the results? Any positive or negative comments from lovers, friends, etc?

thx

Posted By : Alessio - 12/5/2007 10:44 AM
Stanford researchers produce short-term reversal of skin aging in mice

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-11/sumc-srp112607.php

Posted By : zorba990 - 12/5/2007 12:34 PM
Alessio said...
Stanford researchers produce short-term reversal of skin aging in mice

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-11/sumc-srp112607.php
I'm not understanding this quote in the article:
 
"Suppressing NF-kappa-B on a long-term basis could result in cancers or other diseases, said the researchers, whose findings are reported today in the journal Genes and Development"
 
Since blocking NF-kappa-B slows cell division wouldn't the trade off be about equal?
(e.g. slow apoptosis but also slower cell division)
 
Cat's Claw herbal inhibits nuclear factor kappa B:
 
An extract of Uncaria tomentosa inhibiting cell division and NF-kappa B activity without inducing cell death.
Int Immunopharmacol. 2003 Dec;3(13-14):1889-900.
Previous reports have demonstrated that extracts of the plant Uncaria tomentosa inhibit tumor cell proliferation and inflammatory responses. We have confirmed that cat's claw C-Med 100, a hot water extract of this plant, inhibits tumor cell proliferation albeit with variable efficiency. We extend these findings by showing that this extract also inhibits proliferation of normal mouse T and B lymphocytes and that the inhibition is not caused by toxicity or by induction of apoptosis. Further, the extract did not interfere with IL-2 production nor IL-2 receptor signaling. Since there was no discrete cell cycle block in cat's claw C-Med 100-treated cells, we propose that retarded cell cycle progression caused the inhibition of proliferation. Collectively, these data suggested interference with a common pathway controlling cell growth and cell cycle progression. Indeed, we provide direct evidence that cat's claw C-Med 100 inhibits nuclear factor kappa B (NF-kappa B) activity and propose that this at least partially causes the inhibition of proliferation.


Posted By : zorba990 - 12/7/2007 12:20 PM
Update:

Negative results with Fenugreek CO2 extract. Lost a bit of hair on this one so taking one for the team sometimes <g>. Still holding on at perhaps 5% gray (just a bit in the front). 
 
(Hoping my initial observations on Hyaluronic acid/Ultrasound facial treatment re-stimulating the hairline are correct).

Trying adding thymus polypeptides next, since they activate stem cells.  Using Enzymatic Therapy's product, but looking for something better (something specifically standardized as to the fractions would be good).

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/reprint/03-0244fjev1.pdf
 
 
Looks like getting an injectable quality thymus extract
might be the way to go.  That way there are no fillers
that are annoying in preparing topicals.  Looks rather
expensive, at 1 ampule per week that's still $13.00 a week
which would certainly make it the most expensive ingredient
in the topical.
 
 
Looking for anything cheaper/better in the way of liquid
thymus extracts...
 
 
 

Post Edited (zorba990) : 12/7/2007 9:38:06 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : ttc - 12/8/2007 11:19 PM
I just wanted to add that I am a 45 year old female and started going gray at 40. My mother has hardly any gray hair at 79
and my father (now deceased) was prematurely gray at 19. I could go both ways but have been working hard the past five years
to keep the gray at bay and reverse it, if possible.

I have studied and learned that the cells in the hair follicle will stay alive if they are fed properly (oxygen, minerals, enzymes and vitamins). When they are not getting what they need, they die off. My gray hair has gone away considerably this past year. I started exercising up to 60 minutes or more per day, ate more green (chlorophyll) foods, drank more water, got off white sugar/white flour products and went to bed earlier. I can't say which factor is the determining factor, because they all work together. I have noticed that the hair reversal happened over a matter of weeks. I eat raw wheat sprouts and take wheat grass juice along with other vegetables. I wish I could say I have been scientific about this, but I haven't. To sum it up, eliminating junk food, eating chlorophyll and exercising have made the most difference.

I also say that those who claim that "one" of these factors didn't work, haven't put the whole picture together. Just because you took chlorophyll but didn't exercise or stay off junk food, doesn't mean the chlorophyll didn't work in reversing the gray. All these factors are important for various reason. When someone says they are "watching" what they eat, they may still be on a relatively processed food diet high in cooked foods and low in high water content food. It would take someone disciplined to put all the factors into practice to truly see if their grey hair could be reversed.

Posted By : StarGazer - 12/10/2007 11:19 AM

ttc,

Specifically, which green products (sources would be great) did you use?

thx


Posted By : gotsomegray - 12/10/2007 11:42 AM

ttc,

Thanks for the input.  It's always great to hear about the method that people have tried, especially when it has been effective.  I was told once by a naturopath that my lack of getting a full night's sleep contributed to my hair graying early.

I haven't given an update on my progress in a while, so here it goes.  One of the ideas I have picked up on the internet that I am now trying is vitamin C.  I read on some naturopathic site that it may be the key to restoring hair color.  I am taking 3000 mg per day along with 2 TBSP of blackstrap molasses and a B-complex vitamin.  It's been about 2 months and I read that six months is where a significant difference should be noted.  Recently I thought I may have noticed a difference, but I have thought that in the past also so I'm not getting my hopes up yet.  The only other thing I am currently doing is trying to massage my fingertips daily as this is supposed to have some connection to blood flow to the scalp.  As always, I will give another update in the future.



Posted By : dLaertios - 12/11/2007 5:53 PM
Gotsomegrey,
you are in a good remedy.
 
I found a book of a greek Dr and said that greying of hair comes from B3 and copper deficiency. This deficiency makes the pores larger and then air bubbles formed and won't let melanin sit on hair shaft.
 
That's my theory also.
 
Furthermore said that correcting the deficiency won't reverse the grey hair but will protect new hair from becoming grey as well.
 
Tell us what will happen with your remedy, but as far as I've read maybe u need to up your C intake to 5-7 grams per day.

Posted By : vlc - 12/26/2007 5:32 PM
How common is it for a few grey hairs to revert back to normal colour and structure (the first few cm of the tip is grey but the rest down to the root is normal colour and shape)?

Posted By : AussieDavid - 12/28/2007 10:53 PM
vlc said...
How common is it for a few grey hairs to revert back to normal colour and structure (the first few cm of the tip is grey but the rest down to the root is normal colour and shape)?
I'm hoping that it's not very common at all. I have been taking a lot of things to try to reverse my grey hair and have found many hairs that have a grey tip and dark base. I thought this reversal was due to the supplements I am taking. Are you saying that it is possibly normal for the hair to do this? If that's the case, then my results may be just a natural occurrence rather than the result of supplementation. The only thing that continues to frustrate me is the appearance of new grey hairs, even with others apparently regaining their pigmentation. I would have thought that if some were re-pigmenting, then that would have meant that I would have at least halted the rest from greying.

Posted By : magha - 12/28/2007 10:59 PM
Exercise /Diet.
 
I've noticed when I go off my normal diet (wintertime I eat alot more and get as lazy as the next guy in the cold weather) I do see alot of cholesterol deposits released through the skin (including top of head) especially when the skin is drier in the winter. If I exercise reg. and eat well, the skin is free of this, but I must do both or the condition returns.. I read much of this is from excess cholesterol (and cholesterol forming foods which are most starches and sugars). By the way, fructose is also found to be a potent cholesterol forming agent in studies.
 
The skin's pore mechanisms have to be affected to rid of this excess waste. It is the skins fuction to do this, but obviously the pore's function gets more "constipated" the more waste there is that needs to be eliminated through the skin. This does not optimize cellular function, even if it is directed via genetic codings.
 
Aerobic workout (cardio/Vo2) is still the most potent mechanism for optimizing cellular function of the entire body including the very crucial -- lymphatic system. The critical factor here is progression-- which is not found by forcing ourselves to do the minimum because we want to get it over, but by forcing our body towards increased progress every week. A rule to remember here is: Do what you have always done and you will get what you have always gotten.
 
There's not a significant amount that can be done to alter gentic codings, but there is a significant amount that can be done to optimize our cellular mechanisms so that premature loss in cellular function does not occur--and not only in the parts (hair, skin , etc.) but more importantly of the whole.
 
If the whole is conditioned, its more likely that the parts will follow-- it rarely (if ever) will occur in reverse.

Posted By : Jim Green - 1/11/2008 3:45 PM
Greying hair [Wikipedia/hair color, Wikipedia/Grey Hair] is sometimes described as due to stem cell failure that no longer renews a melanocyte hair coloring cell in the hair follicle, so that the melanocyte dies and the hair turns white. This was a news story in 2004. I am not sure yet whether stem cell renewal via telomerase activation can restore the melanocyte to the hair follicle after the transition has taken place. I note that Geron and Telomolecular Nanotechnologies seem to believe that white hair can be restored to normal dark hair using telomerase activation. There are products on the market now that claim to restore hair and hair color with telomerase activation, such as iGrowHair Telomerase  I sometimes imagine that my hair is getting darker as I experiment with telomerase activation, but then my hair looks dark after a shower when it is wet, and greyer later...perhaps explaining ancient popular belief in baptism. Just plunking a handful of water on the top of my head makes me look 5-10 years younger - it must help!
For telomerase activation I take Gaia astragalus extract at 5 mg of astragalosides per day for half of the month.  This is an ethanolic extract taken orally at 30 drops per mg of astragalosides, which costs about $22 per month. I have also tried rubbing an entire bottle of Gaia astragalus extract in glycerin through my hair all over myself.  However, you have to add about 20 population doublings to your telomeres before hair rejuvenation effects are observed, according to Artandi Labs and other telomere/telomerase research outfits, and I figure it may take a couple of years for me to remodel my telomeres with this cyclic telomerase activation scheme, in which I take no telomerase inhibitors such as resveratrol, quercetin, green tea, alpha tocopherol, fish oil, or garlic while using telomerase activators such as astragaloside iv.

Posted By : zorba990 - 1/12/2008 7:00 PM
Jim Green said...
Greying hair [Wikipedia/hair color, Wikipedia/Grey Hair] is sometimes described as due to stem cell failure that no longer renews a melanocyte hair coloring cell in the hair follicle, so that the melanocyte dies and the hair turns white. This was a news story in 2004. I am not sure yet whether stem cell renewal via telomerase activation can restore the melanocyte to the hair follicle after the transition has taken place. I note that Geron and Telomolecular Nanotechnologies seem to believe that white hair can be restored to normal dark hair using telomerase activation. There are products on the market now that claim to restore hair and hair color with telomerase activation, such as iGrowHair Telomerase  I sometimes imagine that my hair is getting darker as I experiment with telomerase activation, but then my hair looks dark after a shower when it is wet, and greyer later...perhaps explaining ancient popular belief in baptism. Just plunking a handful of water on the top of my head makes me look 5-10 years younger - it must help!
For telomerase activation I take Gaia astragalus extract at 5 mg of astragalosides per day for half of the month.  This is an ethanolic extract taken orally at 30 drops per mg of astragalosides, which costs about $22 per month. I have also tried rubbing an entire bottle of Gaia astragalus extract in glycerin through my hair all over myself.  However, you have to add about 20 population doublings to your telomeres before hair rejuvenation effects are observed, according to Artandi Labs and other telomere/telomerase research outfits, and I figure it may take a couple of years for me to remodel my telomeres with this cyclic telomerase activation scheme, in which I take no telomerase inhibitors such as resveratrol, quercetin, green tea, alpha tocopherol, fish oil, or garlic while using telomerase activators such as astragaloside iv.
Interesting post.  Given the short half life of many of these substances, why not just take the telomerase activators before sleep when the body goes into its repair mode, and take the antioxidants during the day (prior to exercise, sun exposure, stress, etc)?
 
Astragalus is usually paired with Ginseng in Chinese medicine, and astragalus, ginseng, and Fo-Ti (contains resveratrol) all have high reputations for anti-aging rejuevenation effects. (There are many ginsengs so plant identification may be an issue here)
 
Re:
Wow.  Expensive.
"live and active, telomerase excreting Acidophilus and other Live and active probiotic Yogurt cultures"
Huh?  What bacteria culture produces Telomerase? 
Not at all impressed with his hairline on the MySpace page...
However, he may be unaware of the possible need for wounding with
rejuvenation therapies.
 
 
 edit: As an update, perhaps this (telomerase producing probiotic) is just a simple yeast, like Saccharomyces cerevisiae:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v401/n6749/abs/401177a0.html
What might miake sense is that a normal scalp might contain friendly
yeasts, while an abnormal scalp (for whatever reason chicken/egg)
might contain more pathogenic yeast (thus dandruff, increased oxidation
and sebum, etc).
 
To be legal it would have to be a strain that is already allowed to be sold,
like
 
 

 

Post Edited (zorba990) : 1/13/2008 5:00:35 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : Redneck Rivera - 1/21/2008 12:20 PM
Milanitin didn't work for me.

I am thinking about "Herbal Tonic No. 636"
http://www.baar.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=9636&Category_Code=CAY

Posted By : Vincentvangogo - 1/23/2008 1:54 PM
I was curious about that 636 stuff, Rivera interested to know how you get on. I've been trying the yogic rubbing fingernails/ acupressure technique for 2-3 months, but no obvious result so far.

Posted By : StevenC - 1/24/2008 11:25 AM
Has anyone actually succeeded in reversing gray hair?
 
 
www.treat-cancer.nl

Post Edited (StevenC) : 1/24/2008 9:40:38 AM (GMT-5)


Posted By : dejan - 1/28/2008 11:16 AM
dLaertios, do you have another improvement in reversal?? I'm very interested.

Posted By : dLaertios - 1/30/2008 10:58 PM
No,
I have stopped colloidal copper as topical. It seems that this topical made the difference. Although it made a whole difference in reversal at start then acted slowly.
 
Also I observed same results as aussie - saw that as some scalp hair reversed from grey some facial hair went grey as well.
 
I am thinking to go back to colloidal copper as it was the topical that made the difference.

Posted By : Vincentvangogo - 2/4/2008 7:59 PM
DLaertios do you know if its as good to use ionic copper rather than colloidal? From what I've read some people think ionic is better absorbed.

Posted By : rick30 - 2/6/2008 1:59 PM
Hi all

Started to grey about 2 years ago (I'm 30) but my hair have really started going grey fast during the last year especially the last few moths it's really speeding up

Ive been using melancor for about 5-6 months
MSM 1000 mg daily for the last 6 months
dmae for about 2 months
omega and vit C for the last 10 years
tricomin on my hairline

I'm wondering if the use of finasteride has gotten my grey hair worse, my greying propably started some time after I began using fin but maybe this is just a coincidence as grey runs in my family though I read somewhere that finasteride could cause premature greying.

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 2/6/2008 12:58:42 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : Russell22 - 2/7/2008 3:12 PM
I have been attempting to reverse my grey hair for the last 7-8 months or so. I  have varied the dosages and things i have taken, so have not had a stable supplement but have tried all the things, or most of them anyway, that have been suggested.
 
I was using topically reminex grey hair shampoo since july 07.
 
I'm taking orally
 
1 mega multivitamin
1 x  vit c 1 gram
3-5 brewer's yeasts per day
1 x cod liver oil/omega 3 1 gram
 
over the last couple of months i have added the following
 
1 x L-tyrosine 500 mg
1 x blackstrap molasses 75 mg
1 x paba 500 mg
 
I can't say i have seen, using the above ingredients, any difference to my hair..i think reminexs shampoo is a complete waste of time and am just using up what i have left.
 
if anyone can think of anything else i should be taking please let me know. Also i bought a bottle of ionic copper i think..couldn't find colloidal anywhere. I started to use this topically too but kept forgetting to do this. Might try this again though.
 
Personally a bottle of hair dye is prob what is easiest and cheapest. What we must remeber is that grey hair is a natural bodily process that all humans and some animals go through..it isn't some diesease that we have here folks! There prob isn't a defined cure at this moment in time. Some things seem to work for some but not others. Personally nothing so far has worked for me. I have read that some people here are taking very high levels of vit c and other vitamins. I have been told by a doctor this is very very bad for you to be taking such high dosages every day, so this has made me cautious.
 
Also can anyone recommend a good hair dye? i have taken just for men but it just doesn't bond to my hair properly. I have quite thick hair and i only get about 50% coverage from it. Sometimes i have to re-apply 3 times just to get a reaonable coverage!! Has anyone else found this? i have brown hair (with grey in it) but i also get a slight red tint to it as well..its not noticable in normal light conditions but under harsh artificial light you can really see it which has made me a bit paranoid!! has anyone else found this?
 

Post Edited By Moderator (DDye) : 2/7/2008 1:16:01 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : AussieDavid - 2/10/2008 9:55 PM
rik30 said...
I'm wondering if the use of finasteride has gotten my grey hair worse, my greying propably started some time after I began using fin but maybe this is just a coincidence as grey runs in my family though I read somewhere that finasteride could cause premature greying.<!-- Edit -->
I think that it is definitely possible that Finasteride causes premature greying. My greying is very far advanced for my age and I have been taking Finasteride for many years. I have two brothers around the same age and neither of them have any significant grey hairs. Neither of them has ever taken Finasteride. The unusual thing with my hair is that it really has gone straight to white, rather than going grey. I'm wondering if the Finasteride is causing increased wnt protein production and those wnt proteins are inhibiting pigmentation, as they have been show to do in scientific research conducted by Follica. Follica has developed a potential new treatment for regrowing hair. Initially the new hairs were growing unpigmented, but when they inhibited wnt protein activity for the first 9 days of treatment, the hairs grew pigmented. In a post on hairlosstalk.com someone suggested being off Finasteride during the period when wnt activity is inhibited may help the hair to be pigmented. I don't understand any of the science here, just posting what I've read. I'm guessing that Finasteride increases wnt protein production. Healty hair follicles need wnt proteins. Somehow those same proteins can make the hair white, so it seems almost like a catch 22 situation.
 
Below is a paste from hairlosstalk.com directly talking about<