The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.lef.org//default.aspx?f=35&m=61310
| Posted By : albedo - 3/2/2009 12:34 PM |
I am looking for your experience using supplementation to lower cholesterol.
Since several years I check my cholesterol levels which I tend to have high. I have been only relatively successful in managing it with supplementation.
I recently tried a more aggressive approach using a targeted supplementation (*) without much success: I still have relatively high levels as following (fasting levels):
· Cholesterol Total (ref. range): 223.9 (< 201)
· LDL: 154.4 (< 143)
· HDL: 50.2 (> 35)
· Cholesterol/HDL: 4.5 (< 6.5)
· Triglycerides: 97.3 (< 150)
I will try to slightly change diet, in particular as I indulge on dairy but I have been cautious to use low-fat.
I am considering going to a statin (but really dislike for potential side-effects mostly on liver) and continuing using Ubiquinol (CoQ10) which statin drugs tend to deplete.
I also saw proprietary formulas such as Sytrinol on the LEF site (http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=145&query=Sytrinol&hiword=Sytrinol%20) and wonder if your have experience.
I also tend to be cautious with niacin for potential negative effect on homocysteine which is also one of my key concerns (I posted elsewhere: http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=35&m=61303).
I guess one the supplements I did not use so far is vitamin E as tocotrienols which it is told is effective to lower cholesterol.
I must say I am becoming quite skeptic on natural ways to achieve my targets!
Your comments and experience are very much appreciated !!
(*) (average daily values, summing over all supplements, ~4 months therapy)
· Red Yeast Rice (Nature Plus): 600 mg
· Policosanol (LEF): 15 mg
· Gugulipid (LEF): 1000 mg
· Vitamin B3 (various forms and sources): ~355 mg (o/w ~230 mg as inositol hexanicotinate from LEF)
· Vitamin E (as D-alpha tochopherol, LEF): ~233 IU
· Vitamin E (as mixed gamma/delta/alpha/beta tocopherols, LEF): ~286 mg Post Edited (albedo) : 3/5/2009 4:00:29 PM (GMT-5) |
| Posted By : DDye - 3/2/2009 12:36 PM | | A relatively low fat diet, such as suggested by the American Diabetes Association, is safe. Adding fish oil will provide omega-3 fatty acids, which will also help elevate your HDL cholesterol and improve your cardiovascular risk profile. Water soluble fiber will help lower your total cholesterol.
|
| Posted By : albedo - 3/2/2009 12:49 PM | | Thank you DDye. I start to feel at this stage a try with a more targeted diet (even if I was convinced doing quite well there) and fiber is maybe better before surrending to statins. I will also check with my doctor of course. |
| Posted By : kaypeeoh - 3/2/2009 2:27 PM |
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/
This is the blog from Dr William Davis, a cardiologist. He says cholesterol is a poor marker for cardiac disease. He also says lowering cholesterol is best achieved by removing all wheat products from the diet and adding fish oil.
kevin
|
| Posted By : SpainEurope - 3/2/2009 4:17 PM | albedo
You should taking fish oil. Cholesterol is a very poor marker of cardiovascular disease. After years interested in cardiovascular disease I believe strongly that ZONE DIET of Dr Barry Sears plus fish oil is the best approach against CAD. Inflammation and overproduction of bad eicosanoids plus high insulin is the main predictor of CAD and stroke. Dr Sears created ZONE DIET in order to save his life from cardiovascular disease, a disease which killed to his father and uncles.
http://www.drsears.com/ZoneandChronicDisorders/HeartDisease/tabid/387/Default.aspx
I recommend you a lot reading #1 NYT best-seller THE ZONE, maybe it can save your life. |
| Posted By : albedo - 3/2/2009 5:07 PM | | Thank you all. I will look at the links. Btw I also use fish oil (2000mg/d) together eating fish quite frequently. The only good news I did not report on my lipids profile was my Lp(a) which went a bit down, from 257 to 226 mg/L (ref < 300). Post Edited (albedo) : 3/5/2009 10:16:28 AM (GMT-5) |
| Posted By : kaypeeoh - 3/2/2009 5:07 PM | After The Zone, read The Anti-inflammation Zone. Eicosanoids are a hard concept to grasp but it's fundamental to understanding what is happening as we age.
kaypeeoh |
| Posted By : albedo - 3/2/2009 6:05 PM | | I have been also looking at inflammation of course and always checked CRP (0.3-0.4 since years). Fibrinogen went a bit higher to 390 (in the ref. range, 220-500, but not optimal). |
| Posted By : albedo - 3/5/2009 12:03 PM |
Thank you. Yes, maybe there is an hint of vitamin C + lysine effect on my Lp(a) which went down as I posted here. Also, further in the past, I had it as high as 350 (ref. <300)). I am not using really megadoses of ascorbic acid though, limiting only to 1000 mg/d, hence I am not sure.
With lysine I was targeting an herpes condition which I could manage well (~1300 mg/d for 6 months, then pause). Post Edited (albedo) : 3/7/2009 10:44:24 AM (GMT-5) |
| Posted By : albedo - 3/5/2009 12:03 PM | I wonder if I am not taking enough (*) of vitamin E and maybe not taking the right form (tocotrienol).
(*)
taking today: - Vitamin E (as D-alpha tochopherol, LEF): ~233 IU - Vitamin E (as mixed gamma/delta/alpha/beta tocopherols, LEF): ~286 mg Post Edited (albedo) : 3/5/2009 3:31:25 PM (GMT-5) |
| Posted By : mari - 3/9/2009 10:24 AM | | Have you had your thyroid function tested? A person I know had high cholesterol, tried various ways and meds and finally someone suggested he have his thyroid tested. He was hypothyroid and after getting his thyroid numbers where it should be, his cholesterol came within normal range.
|
| Posted By : albedo - 3/10/2009 10:12 AM | | Tks, no major problem with thyroid function. Values are within range slighly not optimal though. |
| Posted By : Tom - 3/10/2009 1:52 PM | Diet:
Cholesterol per se is not bad for you. It is the oxysterols or oxidized lipids that you really should avoid. Dietary oxidized cholesterol and oxidized fatty acids have been shown to play a major role in the development of cardiovascualr disease and atherosclerosis. Do a search on pub med, google scholar and such and you'll see the relationship.
Lower your amount of grain consumption and switch from less carbohydrate fuel to more good fat fuel like raw avocados, raw walnuts, and little bit tropical oils wont hurt. Raw, unheated tropical oils like coconut oil (steric acid and lauric acid) have shown to raise total cholesterol levels but most of that is HDL. If energy reserves run low eat some beans and legumes instead of grains. Consume more fish. Add more fresh garlic and onions to your diet. Lower all consumption of trans fatty acids.
Exercise:
Getting rid of abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissue, most importantly the visceral fat. This is tough because a person could still have a relatively flat looking stomach but still have visceral fat. Body fat is strongly associated with plasma levels of C-reactive protein. Regular endurance exercise has been shown to lower visceral fat and lower LDL and triglycerides and increase plasma HDL.
Supplements:
If all factors above are in line you can try the following supplements:
Fish oil
Policosanol
Lecithin
Pantethine
Garlic & onions (organosulfur compounds)
|
| Posted By : albedo - 3/10/2009 6:06 PM | | Thank you Tom, it is good to have you back in this Forum! |
| Posted By : mbn_van-bc - 3/11/2009 9:35 AM | I had forgotten about the thyroid-cholesterol connection... Strange though, that some nutrients that increase thyroid function (saturated fats, tropical oils) increase cholesterol and the ones the ones that inhibit thyroid function (polyunsaturated, fish oils) decrease cholesterol.
Statins are apparently good at lowering CRP. Seems this is the next marketing phase for them...
If you don't have any other serious risk factors, I wouldn't worry about high cholesterol. Seen Chris Masterjohn's stuff?? http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/index.html |
| Posted By : Tham - 3/12/2009 2:40 PM | One of my friends, using the Zone diet alone, did very well. I saw his lipids plummet over several months as he faxed his blood results to me.
Artichoke extracts are also good. |
| Posted By : albedo - 3/12/2009 5:17 PM |
From the many positive replies, this Zone diet must be something really good and I wish to look deeper; i must say I was a bit confused by the many books on it and the marketing.
Am I correct assuming this is basically a Low GL diet?
I read Holford's book and looked at his low GL site:
http://www.holforddiet.com/content.asp?id_Content=1707
which also contains an interactive tool to size the GL of our daily foods intake. I wonder if Holford's and Sears' approaches are basically equivalent.
I fully agree on inflammation which I think I am getting under control as I have an ideal CRP of 0.3 mg/L.
I also fully agree on lipids oxidation and will also research on this, in particular what could be its most important bio-marker.
I must say all this diet stuff is quite difficult to follow. E.g. I run 3 blood tests of fatty acids and noticed big changes which I could not esily associate to big changes in my diet. I could manage however to arrive to a 3.5 ratio as omega-6 to omega-3 which I was told is not bad, a ratio of about 1 for polyunsaturated to saturated and 37% - 37% - 26% split of resp. polyunsaturated-saturated-monounsaturated. |
| Posted By : peakbagger - 3/13/2009 11:24 AM | | Everybody is different but myself, I eat a high fat, medium protein, low-medium carb diet. I am approx 6'0", 165 lbs with cholesterol 169, HDL = 64, 54 years of age, approx 13% body fat. I eat whole milk dairy (organic/unpasteurized preferred), eggs, moderate red meat, plenty of fish & fowl, and few refined foods. Carbs come mainly from fruits/veggies and I eat plenty of those, many of them raw, often with a good cold-pressed olive-oil based dressing. I also eat lots of nuts & seeds & 85% chocolate. I estimate that 50% of my calories are from fat. I stay away from anything white and rarely eat grains of any kind and if I do, it's Ezekiel no-flour 7-grain sprouted bread. Beans, legumes, or wild rice are eaten infrequently. I do exercise regularly, mixing rec sports with some weight training and cardio. Going off the grains definitely made a difference, I dropped some weight off the mid-section and my waist size shrank about 2 inches. |
| Posted By : kaypeeoh - 3/13/2009 1:42 PM | | I was on the Zone Diet for quite a while but eventually became bored with constantly measuring blocks. But it brought my cholesterol to 160. I went to an Atkins-style diet which brought cholesterol to 280. According the Dr Davis, getting off dairy and wheat-grains will do the most for cholesterol control. |
| Posted By : SpainEurope - 3/13/2009 5:38 PM | Hello everybody.
I go on Zone Diet since 4 years ago and I think Zone is the best nutrition programm ever designed. My interest in Zone was primarily antiaging nutrition and prevention of chronic diseases (http://www.drsears.com/ZoneandChronicDisorders/tabid/379/Default.aspx). There are many "copies" of Zone Diet, I think Holford's Diet is one of them.
Zone Diet was created by Dr Barry Sears during his personal fight against heart disease (his father, grandfather and uncles died at 50 due to heart attack). Also, in '80 he was investigating about cancer (Dr Sears is #1 owner of pharmaceutical patents in endovenous drugs in cancer treatment). He developed Zone after many years of investigation, and also during his work with athletes. He probably discovered what is called the Zone in 1989; in 1992 US swimming team in Barcelona olympic games broke his own medal record with 8 medals thanks to going on Zone Diet. So, in 1995 Barry Sears published his first book, THE ZONE, #1 NYT best-seller. It explains why staying in the Zone fights obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, osteoporosis, improve your athletic performance and even help against HIV.
Why the Zone? Because if you mantain your blood sugar and insulin in a Zone not very high but not very low you obatain an optimum Zone of eicosanoids (balance bad/good eicosanoids, because you need some bad eicosanoids). Eicosanoids may be central commander in all your hormone system. Medicine Nobel Prize in 1982 and 1985 explained the central role of eicosanoids in human health. If you control eicosanoids, you can control your weight, your cardiovascular risk, tumor cells, your athletic performance or most of autoinmune diseases.
"Whats the Zone?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp8WMZxt5vo&feature=channel_pageI have heard that many physician have proposed to Barry Sears for Nobel Prize. Dr Barry Sears is president of "Inflammation Research Foundation", and I really believe he was the very first of proprosing the inflammatory theory of aging and disease. Since 2005 Zone Diet is official diet of Joslin Diabetes Center of Harvard, the leading center in the world in diabetes disease. Also, Harvard Medical School official diet is almost a version of Zone Diet. Really Zone is very simple and its based in considering food as a drug as Hypocrates believed. 1. Balance in every meal LG carbs (release insulin slowly) with lean protein (release glucagon, anti-insulin hormone)= moderate insulin. 2. Add some good fats: monoinsaturated fats as extra virgin olive oil, nuts or avocados por example. (40% calories from LG carbs; 30% calories from lean protein; 30% calories from good fats in every meal) 3. Consume Fish Oil supplements: Omega 3 help to stoping production of bad eicosanoids (because of EPA from Fish Oil inhibits Delta 5 desaturase enzyme as you can see in chart in LEF Super Omega 3 EPA/DHA in this website). I have read 6 or 7 books of Zone. If you want a fast and very clear reading I recommend you A WEEK IN THE ZONE, that you can read in only 1-2 hours. But for me master Zone books are THE ZONE (1995) and THE ANTIIINFLAMATION ZONE (2005). ASAP (American Society Aesthetic Plastic and Surgery) considers Zone an antiaging nutrition; if you are intesting in aging THE ANTIAGING ZONE (1999) is a must read. Manuel Uribe from Mexico, once the heavist man in the world, go on Zone since 2 years ago. Also, for example, Dean Karnazes, considered by Men´s Fitness magazine the most athletic man in the world, and named by TIME magazine as one of the “Top 100 Most Influential People in the World,” go on Zone since 10 years ago (he is more than 40 years old, and in 2006 he ran 50 marathons, in all 50 US states, in 50 consecutive days, finishing with the NYC Marathon, which he completed in three hours flat). Today, Zoner athletes have obtained 24 olympic medals. http://www.zonediet.com/FITNESS/EliteAthletes/tabid/182/Default.aspx
Other people knew Zone because its said that celebs like Cindy Crawford or Jennifer Anniston go on Zone years ago.
In countries like Spain or specially Italy, Zone is so famous because is similar to mediterranean diet, plenty of fruits and vegetables and with olive oil as main fat.
But really Zone is a lifestyle of optimum health
|
| Posted By : scottie99 - 3/13/2009 5:46 PM | | Wow nice post SpainEurope! I'm going to try it myself. |
| Posted By : SpainEurope - 3/13/2009 6:04 PM | | Thanks scottie. Really Zone changed my life and its books changed my consideration of nutrition and health. Thanks to discover Barry Sears I studied for being a journalist specialized in human health, what I am today. As health journalist I recommend all people consider Zone as optimum lifestyle, and I go on reading about this complex science called antiinflamatory medicine. Later, I discovered LEF, for me probably the best company of supplements in the world, and I became also a LEF member. I can tell some amazing personal stories about Zone, personally I thanks everyday that my mother began after years to walk without a cane and she had never more lost memory momments since I put her on Zone Diet+ high dose fish oil. My main interest is helping people if I can. It would be so interesing opening a post about Zone; its so odd for me no one is running now in these forums. Post Edited (SpainEurope) : 3/13/2009 6:11:50 PM (GMT-4) |
| Posted By : gunfyter - 3/16/2009 11:18 AM | I have been taking Slim signals which people are taking for weight loss since mid december...
Not really lost weight but
after 10 weeks
Total cholesterol down 15%
Triglycerides no chnge
HDL no change
LDL down 25%
glucose down 15% |
| Posted By : scottie99 - 3/16/2009 11:18 AM |
SpainEurope said...
Thanks scottie. Really Zone changed my life and its books changed my consideration of nutrition and health. Thanks to discover Barry Sears I studied for being a journalist specialized in human health, what I am today. As health journalist I recommend all people consider Zone as optimum lifestyle, and I go on reading about this complex science called antiinflamatory medicine. Later, I discovered LEF, for me probably the best company of supplements in the world, and I became also a LEF member. I can tell some amazing personal stories about Zone, personally I thanks everyday that my mother began after years to walk without a cane and she had never more lost memory momments since I put her on Zone Diet+ high dose fish oil. My main interest is helping people if I can. It would be so interesing opening a post about Zone; its so odd for me no one is running now in these forums.
Glad you mentioned the fish oil again because i wondered something when i read your first post and then forgot to ask you about it. Which fish oil do you prefer? i used to like LEF's but now it has sesame extract in it and I believe that will actually reduce free testosterone. I am pretty sure i read that somewhere. that is why i don't use LEF's. Also could you give me a breakdown of what your daily eating look like, on the ZD please? |
| Posted By : albedo - 3/16/2009 11:22 AM | |
Outstanding post on Zone SpainEurope!
It helps a lot to put the Zone in perspective and I appreciate your guidance for the basic texts to read. How easy is to it put in practice? I mean, do you find easily ingredients? (I understand you live in Europe, as I do, hence I am interested to know because we might have similarities) My wife is dietician in background and I think, by coincidence, I mean before I started to really look at my health more seriously, she has helped me (and her) a lot. Do you cook yourself and did you find easy to balance the Zone with your daily work obligations etc.?
Thank you again! Post Edited (albedo) : 3/16/2009 1:08:25 PM (GMT-4) |
| Posted By : SpainEurope - 3/16/2009 7:09 PM | | Hello. Really a ZONE post should be running in these forums. ZONE word comes from athletic world in US in 90's. When a sportman was in the zone he could do his best perfomance. Eating in the Zone is easy at least in mediterranean contries. Fact is that Zone has an incredible success in Italy, where many nutritional companies sell snacks and foods balanced in the Zone. Eating in the Zone only needs vegetables and fruits (good fats), good fats (olive oil, nuts or avocados) and lean protein.
ZONE was born as opposition to:
- High carb diets, typical american diet for example.
- High protein diets, like Atkins diet.
This is a Zone type pyramid
ot hormonally better than your last meal and you will not better than your next meal. If you go out the Zone with a bad meal always you can enter again in the Zone with a balanced meal. Simply common sense combined with high tech medicine and nutrition. As Harvard Medical School has demostrated, only a couple of days in a Zone type diet changes favorably your hormonal response reversing insulin resistance. [Markovic TP, Campbell LV, Balasubramanian S, Jenkins AB, Fleury AC, Simons LA, and Chisholm DJ. “Beneficial effect on average lipid levels from energy restriction and fat loss in obese individuals with or without type 2 diabetes.” Diabetes Care 21: 695-700 (1998)]. Also, Harvard Medical School has demostrated that Zone is a superior antiinflamatory diet, so Harvard has adopted main Zone ideas in its official recomendations. And yes, Dr Sears is a famous medical lecturer in Harvard M.School in Boston. Zone Validation Studies: http://www.drsears.com/WhatistheZone/ZoneValidationStudies/tabid/423/Default.aspxWhere are you in the Zone? If you have insulin and sugar not too low but not too high, you are in the Zone. A Zone meal or snack have primarily a correct balance protein/carbs. Current Zone concept is based in a paleolitic balance protein/carbs, which further was refined with phylosophie of drug administration. Zone is the first programm developed from nutrigenomics. Hormones are more powerful than drugs. When you think in the Zone, you consider food the most powerful drug. Maybe the most original and advanced Zone concept is 'eicosanoids', master hormones. All drugs have a therapeutic Zone. Too drug is toxic, not enough drug is ineffective. Food is the same. Well thats the Zone, antiaging, anticancer, antiheart disease...of course antiiinflamatory superior lifestyle at the end! about Omega 3, I really love Super Omega 3 EPA/DHA because of sesamin lignans inhibits Delta 5 desaturase enzyme, which produces all proinflamatory eicosanoids in cells. Zone Labs, property of Dr Sears, produces one of best Fish Oil and this is the most times tested with 5 stars by IFOS (Zone Labs sends every 6 months more or less a Omega 3 Zone Labs stuff for being tested). Its Omega 3 also has sesamin but I prefer LEF because its so cheaper hehe. Also, Zone Labs produces a kind of Omega 3 so popular in athletic world, with low dose GLA added.
For me, after 4 years is so easy mantaining me in the Zone. At any meal you must have a source of whole protein, vegetables or fruits (if you can also take in one moment bad carbs, you take a smaller amount of them), and some olive oil or nuts or almonds. Balance correctly macronutrients, and you will be in the Zone next 4 to 5 hours.
You have different methods to put your meals in the Zone
Visual Zone method
Zone rules+Sample Day+Shopping lists and others
Since Zone is a individual programm and your ammount of calories depends on your body fat and physical activity, reading a Zone book helps. Also you can listen your body and knowing what ammount of Zone blocks you need everytime.
If you are in the Zone, your kitchen is your pharmacy. Post Edited (SpainEurope) : 3/16/2009 7:48:42 PM (GMT-4) |
| Posted By : SpainEurope - 3/17/2009 10:02 AM | | Do I open a ZONE Diet/Lifestyle post? |
| Posted By : albedo - 3/18/2009 11:19 AM |
SpainEurope said...
Do I open a ZONE Diet/Lifestyle post?
IMHO you should do it. It can only add value to the Forums. I suggest reusing your two great posts in this thread which focus only on supplementation effectiveness on cholesterol. You did a great introduction work for all of us and btw I decided to read first the 3 books you mentioned and try. When comparing to my current diet I probably do not need to make really major adjustments and might not be that hard. I like very much the hormonal science behind. Also, there are old posts mentioning The Zone which you can possibly re-actualize as appropriate. |
| Posted By : SpainEurope - 3/18/2009 4:25 PM | Perfect, because I miss a Zone post in LEF forums. Also I miss a lot more Zone articles in LEF magazine, while I read there a lot about diets that for me are a copy of original Zone, which was born in late 80s/early 90s. I suppose 3 books you say are
- A WEEK IN THE ZONE (2000)
- THE ANTIINFLAMMATION ZONE (2005)
- THE ANTIAGING ZONE (1999)
This is the best order to read. I welcome any comment about Zone books. |
| Posted By : Tom - 3/23/2009 8:22 AM | | The Zone is a pretty good eating plan. The only thing I don't agree with now is eliminating whole eggs because of the arachidonic acid. Egg yolks are a highly nutritious food. In moderation they should be okay to incorporate in the diet plan. |
| Posted By : SpainEurope - 3/23/2009 9:55 AM | | Tom, you can consume whole eggs fortified with omega 3. At least I eat 2 to 4 whole omega 3 whole eggs. |
| Posted By : albedo - 3/25/2009 10:28 AM |
Tom said...Diet: Cholesterol per se is not bad for you. It is the oxysterols or oxidized lipids that you really should avoid. Dietary oxidized cholesterol and oxidized fatty acids have been shown to play a major role in the development of cardiovascualr disease and atherosclerosis. Do a search on pub med, google scholar and such and you'll see the relationship. Lower your amount of grain consumption and switch from less carbohydrate fuel to more good fat fuel like raw avocados, raw walnuts, and little bit tropical oils wont hurt. Raw, unheated tropical oils like coconut oil (steric acid and lauric acid) have shown to raise total cholesterol levels but most of that is HDL. If energy reserves run low eat some beans and legumes instead of grains. Consume more fish. Add more fresh garlic and onions to your diet. Lower all consumption of trans fatty acids. Exercise: Getting rid of abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissue, most importantly the visceral fat. This is tough because a person could still have a relatively flat looking stomach but still have visceral fat. Body fat is strongly associated with plasma levels of C-reactive protein. Regular endurance exercise has been shown to lower visceral fat and lower LDL and triglycerides and increase plasma HDL. Supplements: If all factors above are in line you can try the following supplements: Fish oil Policosanol Lecithin Pantethine Garlic & onions (organosulfur compounds)
Thank you.
First and following also mbn_van-bc post in this thread, I am not hugely concerned by my cholesterol. Btw, even my general MD (not AA) is not in favor of statins at this stage. Wrt diet, I try to be careful about lipid oxidation; we use olive oil (mainly MUFA right?) for cooking and tend to heat always for a short time and at low temperature. I must be doing not that bad if I look at the excellent CRP.
The Zone diet I learned from SpainEurope is something I would like to give a try and I am reducing on grains as you suggest. Now your point on excercise: I have the feeling you are on something here ! Despite regular exercise (cyclying, 20 min almost every day, interval training plus swimming) and some weights lifting 2-3x per week, I tend to have a waist circumference which I totally dislike. Maybe getting this down will decrease also my cholesterol. The problem is my BMI seems very good, fat is around 13.2% which is not bad and CRP looks excellent.
Thank you all for your replies!
Post Edited (albedo) : 3/25/2009 11:31:12 AM (GMT-4) |
| Posted By : poonja - 3/25/2009 4:45 PM | | Consider changing to a low carb diet. Look at the heart scan blog and other associated websites maintained by very knowledgable doctors and scientists. There seems to be a very stong correlation between carbohydrate consumption and a probematic lipid profile. |
| Posted By : Tom - 3/25/2009 4:46 PM | albedo said...
Now your point on excercise: I have the feeling you are on something here ! Despite regular exercise (cyclying, 20 min almost every day, interval training plus swimming) and some weights lifting 2-3x per week, I tend to have a waist circumference which I totally dislike. Maybe getting this down will decrease also my cholesterol. The problem is my BMI seems very good, fat is around 13.2% which is not bad and CRP looks excellent.
What you're referring to is the tenacious fat, or what people call stubborn fat. It's a type of fat that is in some ways resistant to exercise induced lipolysis. It's a problem with allot of people actually.
Adrenoceptors control fat cell metabolism and blood flow in and out of fat tissue. Just like there is good and bad cholesterol, there is also sort of good and bad adrenoceptors. Alpha-2 and beta-2 receptors. The theory is that tenacious fat has more alpha-2 receptors than beta-2 receptors. It's been suggested that abdominal fat has higher alpha-2 receptors. Alpha-2 inhibits insulin secretion, inhibits lipolysis and mediates vasoconstriction. Beta-receptors are more active in binding with adrenal hormones in the fat burning process. There also appears to be more estrogen receptors in the tenacious fat as well. Because alpha-2 receptors have less blood flow due to vasoconstriction, this explains another reason why tenacious fat is slow to metabolize and remove.
Another cause for regressed blood flow to tissues and to tenacious fat cells in particular could be due to the degradation of protein in the nitrogen cycle to nitrite. Nitrites compromise the ability of red blood cells to deliver oxygen to tissues, thus resulting in tissue hypoxia. In addition, this can cause the body to use blood sugar more rapidly inducing hunger and consequently a craving for carbohydrate rich foods. And of course we know where that leads us. |
| Posted By : seaexplorer - 4/9/2009 12:46 PM | | I've just about exhausted my "natural options" for improving my blood lipids. My case is quite stubborn, but thankfully my Dr is trying all options before resorting to presription statins. The last ditch attempt is now red yeast rice which has statin properties. Will report back after getting bloodwork tested. |
| Posted By : Tom - 4/9/2009 12:58 PM | | What is your height/weight? What is your daily diet like? How much do you exercise, and what do you do? On a scale from 0-10 (0=lowest) what is your daily stress level like? Give us a run down. |
| Posted By : seaexplorer - 4/9/2009 1:42 PM | Height is 6'4" and weight 220lbs. Diet is "moderate" and balanced -- actually pretty healthy. Age 45.
Exercise is one area I need to improve on. Stress levels are nothing too out of the ordinary.
My first experiment with a natural solution was to use a product from another source that had a whole mix of good things in it like sytrinol, policosonal, mixed tocotrienols, krill oil, nattozymes, and cardioaid ... I took for a year along with 4 super omega LEF capsules ... got a check up and to my shock, I was in danger zone for all cardio blood tests ... this convinced me to stop "playing Dr" ...
My first blood test readings after my playing Dr natural experiment:
Triglycerides = 1,200
HDL = 37
Total Chol = 280
I then consulted with a respected Dr and he put me on a liquid fish oil that was very high concentrated ... 2X more than LEF ... put me on Vit D 5000 IU, niacin 1.5 g, and Gugilipid 2g, natural thyroid and a little testosterone ... after 6 months, only a slight improvement.
2nd phase readings:
Triglycerides = 575
HDL = 34
Total Chol = 270
The Dr now added red yeast rice, and increased my fish oil and niacin further. Will be doing follow up blood work in a month |
| Posted By : Tom - 4/10/2009 1:05 PM | I would suggest you try to get your weight down to around 195-200 pounds. That would be a 20-25 pound weight loss. This would give you a BMI of around 21—a healthy and pleasing weight. I would advise you to get a fat caliper and learn the proper ways to take measurements because BMI is a rough guideline. It's really the ratio of fat to muscle that matters. With this amount of weight loss alone, you will see dramatic changes in how you look and feel and your body will respond appropriately. Exercise is important because it helps balance the body's ability to utilize fats and protein properly. Loosing excess abdominal adipose tissue is most important. With weight gain, fat cells become larger and tend to manufacture more estrogen. Estrogens can exacerbate hypertriglyceridemia.
Another supplement you might try is a lignan or enterolactone supplement such as HMRlignan or LinumLIfe. Enterolactones help manage estrogen levels.
Diet is very important so you need to look at that in detail. Dietary sources that can raise triglycerides include, hydrogenated oils or trans-fats, excess simple sugar— table sugar is the main culprit as it's in practically everything these days, pasteurized fruit juices, alcohol, excess carbohydrate intake (especially refined carbohydrates). Dark green leafy and curciferous vegetables have been shown to have a positive affect on blood lipids. A generous, raw vegetable salad added to your diet once a day is a good start.
You might not be digesting dietary fats properly. I see that you were taking nattozymes. I'm not familiar with that product but have you tried just a more potent lipase supplement?
Did your doctor test pancreatic function? You can have your doctor do a lipase test to see if your pancreas is producing normal amounts of this enzyme.
Dr. Fox who was on the LEF board of advisors at one time advised me that a rule of thumb for your target total cholesterol would be 200 + your age, so in your case it would be 245.Post Edited (Tom) : 4/10/2009 2:18:37 PM (GMT-4) |
| Posted By : SusanM - 4/17/2009 12:30 PM | |
My doctor put me on Niaspan to lower my cholesterol. Unfortunately I had a severe reaction to it beyond the normal "flushing". I read that inositol hexanicotinate is a form of niacin that works as well but without the "flushing" Has anyone tried IHN and if so, did you experience any adverse reactions? Also, when you take large doses of niacin (above 1,000 mg/day) it can affect your liver and you need to be tested periodically. Apparently the inositol hexanicotinate does not have that harmful affect. I see that Life Extension has the product and I have asked the Advisor about the "flushing" but I am wondering if anyone out there has. I also read that this has been used in Europe for 40 years so it is not new to the world - but is not well known here in the U.S.
Comments anyone?
|
| Posted By : albedo - 4/20/2009 9:43 AM | | As per my original post here I am using LEF's IHN w/o those effects but my dose is quite low. |
| Posted By : albedo - 4/20/2009 9:46 AM |
Tom said...
albedo said...
Now your point on excercise: I have the feeling you are on something here ! Despite regular exercise (cyclying, 20 min almost every day, interval training plus swimming) and some weights lifting 2-3x per week, I tend to have a waist circumference which I totally dislike. Maybe getting this down will decrease also my cholesterol. The problem is my BMI seems very good, fat is around 13.2% which is not bad and CRP looks excellent. What you're referring to is the tenacious fat, or what people call stubborn fat. It's a type of fat that is in some ways resistant to exercise induced lipolysis. It's a problem with allot of people actually. Adrenoceptors control fat cell metabolism and blood flow in and out of fat tissue. Just like there is good and bad cholesterol, there is also sort of good and bad adrenoceptors. Alpha-2 and beta-2 receptors. The theory is that tenacious fat has more alpha-2 receptors than beta-2 receptors. It's been suggested that abdominal fat has higher alpha-2 receptors. Alpha-2 inhibits insulin secretion, inhibits lipolysis and mediates vasoconstriction. Beta-receptors are more active in binding with adrenal hormones in the fat burning process. There also appears to be more estrogen receptors in the tenacious fat as well. Because alpha-2 receptors have less blood flow due to vasoconstriction, this explains another reason why tenacious fat is slow to metabolize and remove. Another cause for regressed blood flow to tissues and to tenacious fat cells in particular could be due to the degradation of protein in the nitrogen cycle to nitrite. Nitrites compromise the ability of red blood cells to deliver oxygen to tissues, thus resulting in tissue hypoxia. In addition, this can cause the body to use blood sugar more rapidly inducing hunger and consequently a craving for carbohydrate rich foods. And of course we know where that leads us. The last issue of LEF's Magazine (May 2009), not yet on line?, has an article right on this ("Novel Methods to reduce Stubborn Belly Fat") and they even suggest a topical formula containing Sphacelaria scoparia (inhibits growth of fat cells), Xantalgosil C (R) ("synergistic combination of organic silicon and a xanthic base - similar to caffeine and theophylline found in green tea .."), caffeine and the all packaged into a smart liposome delivery system (QuSome (R)). It is quite expensive, maybe worth a try if others are finding some effects.... any comment? |
| Posted By : rizwan - 4/20/2009 9:50 AM | Pantethine and lecithin should be part of any lipid balancing program. Pantethine, vitamin B5 is usually underused and under appreciated in this respect. I would urge you to include these.
|
| Posted By : Tom - 4/20/2009 1:01 PM | | Albedo, thanks for heads up. I have not received the latest copy yet but will check it out. I believe a transdermal methods to supply this might work. I have not seen the product though. |
| Posted By : albedo - 4/20/2009 4:10 PM | |
|
| Posted By : albedo - 5/15/2009 2:54 PM |
Tom said...
albedo said...
Now your point on excercise: I have the feeling you are on something here ! Despite regular exercise (cyclying, 20 min almost every day, interval training plus swimming) and some weights lifting 2-3x per week, I tend to have a waist circumference which I totally dislike. Maybe getting this down will decrease also my cholesterol. The problem is my BMI seems very good, fat is around 13.2% which is not bad and CRP looks excellent. What you're referring to is the tenacious fat, or what people call stubborn fat. It's a type of fat that is in some ways resistant to exercise induced lipolysis. It's a problem with allot of people actually. Adrenoceptors control fat cell metabolism and blood flow in and out of fat tissue. Just like there is good and bad cholesterol, there is also sort of good and bad adrenoceptors. Alpha-2 and beta-2 receptors. The theory is that tenacious fat has more alpha-2 receptors than beta-2 receptors. It's been suggested that abdominal fat has higher alpha-2 receptors. Alpha-2 inhibits insulin secretion, inhibits lipolysis and mediates vasoconstriction. Beta-receptors are more active in binding with adrenal hormones in the fat burning process. There also appears to be more estrogen receptors in the tenacious fat as well. Because alpha-2 receptors have less blood flow due to vasoconstriction, this explains another reason why tenacious fat is slow to metabolize and remove. Another cause for regressed blood flow to tissues and to tenacious fat cells in particular could be due to the degradation of protein in the nitrogen cycle to nitrite. Nitrites compromise the ability of red blood cells to deliver oxygen to tissues, thus resulting in tissue hypoxia. In addition, this can cause the body to use blood sugar more rapidly inducing hunger and consequently a craving for carbohydrate rich foods. And of course we know where that leads us.
|
| Posted By : albedo - 6/7/2009 6:36 PM |
Tom said...
albedo said...
Now your point on excercise: I have the feeling you are on something here ! Despite regular exercise (cyclying, 20 min almost every day, interval training plus swimming) and some weights lifting 2-3x per week, I tend to have a waist circumference which I totally dislike. Maybe getting this down will decrease also my cholesterol. The problem is my BMI seems very good, fat is around 13.2% which is not bad and CRP looks excellent. What you're referring to is the tenacious fat, or what people call stubborn fat. It's a type of fat that is in some ways resistant to exercise induced lipolysis. It's a problem with allot of people actually. Adrenoceptors control fat cell metabolism and blood flow in and out of fat tissue. Just like there is good and bad cholesterol, there is also sort of good and bad adrenoceptors. Alpha-2 and beta-2 receptors. The theory is that tenacious fat has more alpha-2 receptors than beta-2 receptors. It's been suggested that abdominal fat has higher alpha-2 receptors. Alpha-2 inhibits insulin secretion, inhibits lipolysis and mediates vasoconstriction. Beta-receptors are more active in binding with adrenal hormones in the fat burning process. There also appears to be more estrogen receptors in the tenacious fat as well. Because alpha-2 receptors have less blood flow due to vasoconstriction, this explains another reason why tenacious fat is slow to metabolize and remove. Another cause for regressed blood flow to tissues and to tenacious fat cells in particular could be due to the degradation of protein in the nitrogen cycle to nitrite. Nitrites compromise the ability of red blood cells to deliver oxygen to tissues, thus resulting in tissue hypoxia. In addition, this can cause the body to use blood sugar more rapidly inducing hunger and consequently a craving for carbohydrate rich foods. And of course we know where that leads us.
I wonder what is the best method to measure your body fat percentage.
I obtain quite different values using different methods. I also use a bathroom scale (bio impedance) and here the values are very different, I fear ! I am 54, male, BMI=21
Which method is the most reliable? Do you have an explication for the broad range of values?
(26%)
http://www.drsears.com/ZoneResources/BodyFatCalculator/tabid/414/Default.aspx
(20.9%)
http://www.linear-software.com/online.html
(20.8%)
http://www.style-pilates.com/diet.html
(12.4% my own BIA scale) (went down 1% from last post end of March, maybe hinting I am doing a little better relatively)
Thank you !
Post Edited (albedo) : 6/8/2009 10:17:05 AM (GMT-4) |
| Posted By : albedo - 8/31/2009 12:52 PM |
SpainEurope said...
Tom, you can consume whole eggs fortified with omega 3. At least I eat 2 to 4 whole omega 3 whole eggs. Is that quantity per day or per week? I eat 2-3 whole eggs per week. |
| Posted By : SpainEurope - 9/8/2009 9:26 AM | | Per week, but now I am taking almost 1 omega-3 egg everyday, because I use them as my source of cholesterol, which is neccesary for neurons. |
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