The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.lef.org//default.aspx?f=38&m=16489
| Posted By : Davidr - 1/14/2001 8:08 PM | I found the following information in a Russian biochemistry journal.
(see article http://www.protein.bio.msu.su/biokhimiya/contents/v65/full/65071022.htm)
It indicates that eye drops containing carnosine can be used to CURE cataracts without surgery. They also make aged eyes healthier, etc. I could find no such drops in my US internet search. Do you think life extension could look into providing this?
::I have no inside knowledge of what plans LEF has. You should inquire through: http://www.lef.org/customerservice.html::
Medical application of carnosine.
A. M. Wang, C. Ma, Z. H. Xie, and F. Shen
Department of Biochemistry and Department of Neurobiology, Harbin Medical University, Harbin 150086, PR China; E-mail: Wangam@ems.hrbmu.edu.cn
From our investigations, we have reported that eye drops containing 20 mM carnosine were used to treat 96 patients aged 60 years old having senile cataract of various degrees of maturity, with the duration of the disease from 2 to 21 years. The method is that after stopping the use of all other anti-cataract drugs, patients instilled 1-2 drops of the carnosine-containing solution in each eye 3-4 times each day for a period of treatment ranging from 3 to 6 months. The level of eyesight improvement and the change of lens transparency were considered as an evaluation index of the curative effect of carnosine. The result shows that carnosine gives a pronounced effect on primary senile cataract, the effective rate being 100%. For mature senile cataract, the effect rate is 80%, and positive effects were observed with other types of cataract. It is significant that no side effect has been found in the observed cases. During recent years, we have also applied carnosine drops containing the same content to nearly one thousand patients with senile cataract. Our research findings (ready to be published) show similar result.
In addition, we applied carnosine drops to patients aged 48-60 years with various degrees of eyesight impairment but without symptoms of cataract. The course of treatment is from 2 to 6 months. The results demonstrate that carnosine appears to alleviate eye tiredness and comparatively improve eyesight (obviously improve eyesight, giving more clear vision). Subjects reported that carnosine could brighten and relax their eyes. It is an important point that all the above research on medical application of carnosine has statistical significance. |
| Posted By : AJ - 1/15/2001 8:34 PM | Wow, this sounds teriffic. I did a few web searchs but was unable to find anyone selling a product like this. Could it be home brewed? How much is 20 nM?
::It think 20 mM is what you mean. It could be made to this strength be disolving 452 mg of pure carnosine in 100 ml of water, but not being a pharmacist, I do not know if this would be safe to place in your eye. I agree that it sounds terrific and I can hardly wait to see if it may improve my eyesight, but I am being cautious and would like some corroboration that a pure water solution is completly safe.::
> From our investigations, we have reported that eye drops containing
>20 mM carnosine ...>
>...The results demonstrate that carnosine appears to alleviate eye
>tiredness and comparatively improve eyesight (obviously improve eyesight, >giving more clear vision). Subjects reported that carnosine could >brighten and relax their eyes. |
| Posted By : tkobzina - 1/15/2001 11:41 PM | International Antiaging Systems @ http://www.smart-drugs.com/index.html expects to have a supply of carnosine eyedrops this spring.
Vitamin Research Products @ http://www.vrp.com/Default.html is working on it. |
| Posted By : AJ - 1/16/2001 10:11 PM | I cant see any problem with using distilled water as a carrier. In fact I have some MSM eyedrops which is made up of 5% MSM, distilled water and .09% saline. Cost was $4 for 1 oz bottle. It might also be interesting to add some lubricant to the mix like most commercial eyedrops.
BAC has Carnosine at $39 for 50 grams of powder but that is too expensive for me right now. And that would be enough for about 11 bottles of this mix by your formula. Is there any other cheaper source of pure carnosine, perhaps in a smaller quanity? Else well have to wait until sometime later this year and Id bet that whoever gets this mix to market first will charge some excessive price like $20-30 per bottle, sigh.
::BAC has very low overhead and, for bulk powders, is generally the best price anywhere.::
>Wow, this sounds teriffic. I did a few web searchs
>but was unable to find anyone selling a product like
>this. Could it be home brewed? How much is 20 nM?
>
>::It think 20 mM is what you mean. It could be
>made to this strength be disolving 452 mg of pure
>carnosine in 100 ml of water, but not being a
>pharmacist, I do not know if this would be safe
>to place in your eye. I agree that it sounds
>terrific and I can hardly wait to see if it
>may improve my eyesight, but I am being cautious and
>would like some corroboration that a pure water solution is
>completly safe.::
>
>> From our investigations, we have reported that eye drops containing
>>20 mM carnosine ...
>
>>...The results demonstrate that carnosine appears to alleviate eye
>>tiredness and comparatively improve eyesight (obviously improve eyesight,
>>giving more clear vision). Subjects reported that carnosine could brighten and relax their eyes.
|
| Posted By : Tham - 3/10/2001 11:17 PM | Tom,
Cardiovascular Research (Ecological Formulas) sells capsules with 50 mg carnosine and 30 i.u. vitamin E as tocopherol acetate.
Might it be safe to safe to get a pharmacist to mix a capsule into say 10 ml of distilled water preserved with saline to get roughly a 20 mM concentration as per your estimation and use as eyedrops?
Thank you .
::This sounds like it would be equivalent to what the expermenters used. So I dont see why it should not be quite safe. However, the tocopherol acetate might get in the way since it is neither water soluble nor does it have any antioxidant value until converted in the body.:: |
| Posted By : Chris Allen - 6/29/2001 6:18 PM | Heres another report (just published) demonstrating nonsurgical treatment of cataracts with carnosine. Note, though, that this is the N-acetylated form of carnosine:
Peptides 2001 Jun;22(6):979-94
N-Acetylcarnosine, a natural histidine-containing dipeptide, as a potent ophthalmic drug in treatment of human cataracts.
Babizhayev MA, Deyev AI, Yermakova VN, Semiletov YA, Davydova NG, Kurysheva NI, Zhukotskii AV, Goldman IM
Innovative Vision Products, Inc., 19810, County of New Castle, DE, USA
A study was designed to document and quantify the changes in lens clarity over 6 and 24 months in 2 groups of 49 volunteers (76 eyes) with an average age of 65.3 /- 7.0 enrolled at the time of diagnosis of senile cataracts of minimal to advanced opacification.The patients received N-acetylcarnosine, 1% sol (NAC) (26 patients, 41 eyes = Group II), placebo composition (13 patients, 21 eyes) topically (two drops, twice daily) to the conjunctival sac, or were untreated (10 patients, 14 eyes); the placebo and untreated groups were combined into the control (reference) Group I. Patients were evaluated upon entry, at 2-month (Trial 1) and 6-month (Trial 2)-intervals for best corrected visual acuity (b/c VA), by ophthalmoscopy and the original techniques of glare test (for Trial 1), stereocinematographic slit-image and retro-illumination photography with subsequent scanning of the lens. The computerized interactive digital analysis of obtained images displayed the light scattering/absorbing centers of the lens into 2-D and 3-D scales.The intra-reader reproducibility of measuring techniques for cataractous changes was good, with the overall average of correlation coefficients for the image analytical data 0.830 and the glare test readings 0.998. Compared with the baseline examination, over 6 months 41.5% of the eyes treated with NAC presented a significant improvement of the gross transmissivity degree of lenses computed from the images, 90.0% of the eyes showed a gradual improvement in b/c VA to 7-100% and 88.9% of the eyes ranged a 27-100% improvement in glare sensitivity. Topographic studies demonstrated less density and corresponding areas of opacification in posterior subcapsular and cortical morphological regions of the lens consistent with VA up to 0.3. The total study period over 24 months revealed that the beneficial effect of NAC is sustainable. No cases resulted in a worsening of VA and image analytical readings of lenses in the NAC-treated group of patients. In most of the patients drug tolerance was good. Group I of patients demonstrated the variability in the densitometric readings of the lens cloudings, negative advance in glare sensitivity over 6 months and gradual deterioration of VA and gross transmissivity of lenses over 24 months compared with the baseline and 6-month follow-up examinations. Statistical analysis revealed the significant differences over 6 and 24 months in cumulative positive changes of overall characteristics of cataracts in the NAC-treated Group II from the control Group I.The N-acetylated form of natural dipeptide L-carnosine appears to be suitable and physiologically acceptable for nonsurgical treatment for senile cataracts.
PMID: 11390029, UI: 21287179 |
| Posted By : Phil - 9/5/2001 2:47 AM | DO NOT use L-carnosine as an eye-drop!
I have been in personal communication with Dr. Mark Babizhayev, who is one of the principal Russian researchers behind the clinical trials with NAC eye-drops and he gave me this reply:
I believe that the application of L-carnosine for the treatment of human cataracts is misleading. This is because L-carnosine readily becomes a substrate for the activity of natural peptidases (i.e. carnosinase) in the aqueous humor. So much so, that there is no sign of L-carnosine in the aqueous humor within 15 minutes after instillation. Furthermore, I consider that L-carnosine eye-drops may even be harmful for eyes because it gradually releases histamine, which, located as it would be in the presence of the eye-lens is a very toxic agent. However, NAC eye-drops are resistant to hydrolysis with natural carnosinase. Therefore, NAC is the only currently known agent which reverses and prevents human cataracts.
The clinical trials have indicated that ONLY N-acetylcarnosine (NAC) is active, furthermore normal synthesis of NAC produces relatively high levels of heavy metals and animal trials have NOT been efficacous with such types of NAC. The NAC used in the trials has been specially developed by the Japanese who have a proprietary method of production (that produces a very pure NAC). I fear that anyone not using the original type of NAC eye-drops (as used in the trials) will either be wasting their money or worse still damaging their eyes.
Ive been working on an article about NAC eye-drops for publication in the Winter 2001 issue of the IAS Anti-Aging Bulletin. I expect that NAC eye-drops will become available for personal import late this year.
Lastly, it is very interesting to note that NAC is very resistant to carnosinase breakdown.
I hope this is of interest to someone
Phil
Phil Micans PharmB
Vice President, IAS Group
::Yes, this is very valuable. Thanks very much for your input. But I wish you would not call N-acetyl carnosine NAC, since N-acetylcysteine got first dibs on the use of that acryonym.
Which of your products contains N-acetylcarnosine? And what does CONJUNCTISAN A contain? Will you please start placing the full product ingredient contents on your website! When I see a product without ingregient contents, I always advise people to not buy it! One should never buy a pig in a poke.
Finally, what is the difference between CONJUNCTISAN A and CONJUNCTISAN B, especially with respect to ingredient contents? ::
|
| Posted By : Bernard - 9/5/2001 2:54 AM | I have a cataract developing in my right eye I am using Carnosine eye drops for about 15 days available at http://www.smart-drugs.net/product-info/info-conjunctisanA.htm
::According to the literature, you should only use N-acetylcarnosine in the eyes (for explanation see the post by Phil on this thread). Are you sure this product contains that chemical?:: |
| Posted By : Phil - 9/7/2001 1:28 AM | Dear Tom
Thank you for your message, allow me to answer all your questions.
I appreciate that any abbreviations can be confusing, but the contradictions between the drug and supplement world make it extremely difficult to give each product a different one. In the case of n-acetylcarnosine the majority of abbreviations used have been NAC so we have stuck with that. I dare say when the product becomes available it will have a trade name anyway (and no IAS does not stock it yet and we are not aware of any western company that does, however we expect to do so before this Christmas). Its possible that it could be referred to as NACA to mimic its full title (which is n-alpha acetylcarnosine), but then I dare say it would conflict with something else.
::I think the best way to deal with these conflicts in acronyms is to first define the chemical using its standard long name and then put the local abbreviation, to be used for that chemical in the rest of the particular message or article, after the name in parentheses. What I find extremely confusing is when someone begins right off using an acronym which can have two different meanings (eg ALA).::
Please note that IAS doesnt produce any products, all are derived from pharmaceutical companies and thus their ingredients are a matter of record.
::I am pleased to see that you openly state that up front. Many supplement suppliers do not, and thereby imply that they are the manufacturer of the products which they sell.::
However, under our website section titled APPROVED USES you will find a complete list of all the chemicals in a product including the excipients, we dont have any secrets.
::Again, this is laudable. Thanks for telling us where is it. However, I still think the ingredient list should be directly next to the product description instead of the current situation where there is no indication of where it can be found. Most people will not know that they should look under APPROVED USES. At the least, you should make a link from each product description directly to the rest of the information. Perhaps this lack is why Bernard was under the mistaken impression that the product contained carnosine.
Finally, there is no link *anywhere* which says APPROVED USES! So how in the world is one to either get there or even know that it exists! Aha! I finally found it on the product info index page under the heading Manufacturers product insert information. Again, these sections should be linked to/from each product promotional blurb (or integrate the blurb with the hard info), and there should be a button on each page to the index of this detailed information, just as there is a button to other pages/indexes.
Furthermore, your product info is merely a promotional blurb and gives little hard, factual information. Normally when I see this on a website, I tell people not to buy from them! This is especially true with your website since every promotional blurb ends with a completely unscientifc *testiminonial*.
In addition, for a non-prescription product such as acetyl-L-carnitine, there appears to be nothing *but* the promotional blurb because it has no Manufacturers product insert information. So where does one find *exactly* what each capsule contains?
Finally, IMO, you make far too much use of Ward Dean as an expert rather than the use of peer-reviewed scientific published papers. In particular, his article on acetyl-L-carnitine is horribly out of date.
Having given you all this valuable guidance, I will now expect a fee for consulting services in return.::
As you know from reading the product descriptions, the Conjunctisan-A eye-drops are designed to help alleviate cataract and the Conjunctisan-B eye-drops are designed to alleviate eye allergies and treat the complications of contact lens wear.
::That may be so, but when I dont see a product ingredient list and peer-reviewed references, I just ignore such descriptions as mere promotional hype, and I encourage everyone else to do the same!::
Essentially they both contain RNA extracts of the eye, combined with other substances such as vitamin E, procaine etc. For the record the list is as follows:
Conjunctisan-A: One phial of 0.5ml contains, dissolved in 0.7% saline solution and 4% glycerol, the following macromolecular tissue extracts (standardized according to protein content)- molecular weight <10x6, manufactured according to homeopathic methods 0.2ng (D10) bulb.oc.fet.,0.05ng (D11) lens, 0.1ng (D10) vasa fet., 0.15ng (D10) placenta fet., 0.05pg (D14) retina, 0.05pg (D14) nerv. opt., 0.1pg (D13) choriodea, 0.1pg (D13) corp. vitr., 0.05pg (D14) cortex cerebri, 0.05pg (D14) diencephalon, 0.074ug (D8) desacetyl lanatoside C, 5ug (D6) aesculin, 5ug (D6) dodecyl sodium sulphate.
::It would be more helpful if you translated this into more easily understandable terms. But in any case, I also urge everyone to ignore *anything* which relates to homeopathy, which is a completely non-scientific, illogical and inconsistent set of ideas. In this particular product the maximum number of dilutions used (10*-14) is not so large that there will not be any molecules left in a drop of product, however, I would be much more willing to accept the validity of the product formulation if they had simply stated the amounts of ingredient rather than refering to any homeopathic method nonsense (which I am not convinced is even a good method of assuring product uniformity).
In addition, where is the scientific proof that your quote in the promotional blurb implies Conjunctisan A has a long history in Germany and has been proven to be 67% successful
in the treatment of cataract and other degenerative eye disorders. Robert Mason Ph.D. Switzerland.
For that matter, where are *any* peer-reveiwed tests of this product!
Finally, nowhere does your product information state how many drops are in a vial (meaning that the propective purchaser has no idea of what his cost per dosage amounts to!!). However I have assumed that a vial contains 8 - 0.06 ml drops. ::
Conjunctisan-B: One phial of 0.5ml contains, dissolved in 0.7% saline solution and 4% glycerol, the following macromolecular tissue extracts (standardized according to protein content)- molecular weight <10x6), manufactured according to homeopathic methods- 0.1ng (D10) cornea, 0.05ng (D11) conjunctiva, 0.05ng (D11) mucosa naso-pharying, 0.05ng (D11) thymus fet. 0.05ng (D11) lien fet. 0.05ng (D11) lymphonodi, 0.05ng (D11) supernal gland, 0.1ng (D10) placenta mat. 0.1pg (D13) retina, 0.05pg (D14) opt. Nerv. 0.05pg (D14) lens, 0.05pg (D14) Corp. vitr., 0.1pg (D13) choriodea, 0.05pg (D14) cortex cerebri fet., 0.05pg (D14) diencephalon, 5ug (D6) dodecyl sulphate.
I hope this helps.
::Yes, it shows that these two products have no scientific backing, are manufactured by questionable methods, and are likely to be worthless.::
Phil |
| Posted By : patricia379 - 9/8/2001 11:53 AM | Conjunctisan A. contains biological macromolecules from various tissues of the eye such as the retina, optic nerve, cornea, connective tissue, lens and vitreous (of bovine origin).
*quoted from the site Bernard supplied in his post. I would,myself, hesitate using anything from a bovine origin..how can it be compatible with human tissues??? (ocular)
::Those are simply two more questionable aspects of the product.:: |
| Posted By : Phil - 9/17/2001 4:49 AM | Dear Tom
I can see that you have given the matter some thought and investigation, but your comments seem to be more directed at the layout of our website rather than its content.
::Mostly, but if the content cannot be easily found, it is of little value. Moreover if a products essential information is not upfront as part of an objective description (not one containing testimonials), then the rational seeker of products will generally ignore the product, and others will err about what they are getting.::
I believe you have managed to pick out the three products out of 50 plus on our website that need some updating (i.e. ALC and Conjunctisan). IAS concentrates on drugs and hormones and nutritional supplements such as ALC, dont get such a focus from IAS because there are organizations such as LEF doing a good job in that department.
::Ok, then lets take another one at random, deprenyl. If we go to the product description of deprenyl, once again we find a lack of crucial precise information which any objective person buying the product would require.
1) it does not say how many mg of deprenyl are in each tablet.
2) it does not say how many tablets are in the box or how many drops are in the bottle.
3) it does not say how much actual deprenyl (the active substance) is contained in each milligram of deprenyl citrate (the citrate being an inactive carrier vehicle).
4) yes, is does state that a drop contains 1 mg, but what good is that without the other info?::
Firstly, allow me to inform you that at our A-Z List we intentionally list promotional blurb as you refer to it. This is because not everyone wants to wade through the science and be overwhelmed.
::There is an enormous difference between:
1) a promotional blurb with testimonial support.
2) a detailed objective description of the product contents, major purposes and usage.
3) the science backing all its usages.
Any sensible product seeker wants to see 2) right off. S/he is delighted to have 3) available also, but does not expect it. However s/he has no use for 1) at all. By starting everyone off with 1) you are helping to promote the most irrational and dangerous kind of product consideration, where you could be helping people to become more sensible users of these products, which I think that you will agree are not without harmful side effects if they are not used with common sense.::
We also list testimonials because some people like to hear what other people have to say.
::But as responsible agents of the supplement community, you should not cater to this approach which is unreasonable in any area where science can be used to determine the harm or benefit of something. This is especially true where health is involved. By helping and even fostering such irrational and dangerous product decision to continue you are playing right into the hands of organizations like the FDA who wish to remove all possible rights of people to choose for themselves what to put into their bodies. In addition, you are losing all the most sensible and knowledgeable customers who know that testimonials have little scientific value, and scorn those people and websites which use them.::
However, nearly every product is linked to a clinically referenced article (and all of them will be soon).
::But the individual claims are *not* so linked, and, in fact, some of them have little if any peer-reviewed support. At the least, you should distinguish between those claims which have substantial scientific backing and those which are largely testimonial, or some experts personal opinion.::
The referenced links can be obtained by clicking on the text-only link or by downloading the relevant Anti-Aging Bulletin. All our articles have been written by Anti-Aging professionals (they are named in each case) and end with the clinical references, in-fact I believe that IAS has an excellent record in this regard. You will find even more clinically referenced articles under the section called PROTOCOLS (see the AAM MENU).
::Although I found the article for acetyl-L-carnitine badly out of date, I agree that this is a fine way to do it. In essense, you are linking each product to what I described as 3) above. However, that does not overcome the lack of 2) being upfront next to the product or at least directly linked from it.::
How many other anti-aging drug sites are even offering half the information that IAS has available?
::Very few, but one excellent feature does not make up for some unrelated others that are deficient and could easily be corrected.::
You will find clinical references for the use Conjunctisan B at the end of the article text link. I will update the same link for Conjunctisan A soon, there are German clinical trials.
You will also find APPROVED USES of all manufacturers available from the AAM MENU from the bottom bar.
We are in the process of updating our site, adding new and updated information and making it more user friendly. If anyone is stuck in the meantime they can always use the SEARCH engine.
As the majority of our products are brand name pharmaceuticals there is always information available about them through a general medical internet search too.
I hope this helps
Phil
::Thanks for the continuing dialogue. Many others would have not even bothered to reply.:: |
| Posted By : Phil - 9/17/2001 7:34 AM | Dear Tom
I just had a thought. I couldnt understand in your first e-mail why you appeared to have so much difficulty in finding information about IAS products at our website. For example you asked how you would find out the excipients in the ALC, this information is already on-site under the section APPROVED USES.
Then it dawned on me that you may not be looking at our official website which is http://www.antiaging-systems.com
::Yes, I was looking at: http://www.smart-drugs.com/index.html which was the link given in a prior post on this thread.
However, although it is somewhat different, I have the same criticisms to the inital product blurb on the antiaging-systems.com site that I did on the smart-drugs.com site.::
We are aware of other websites that mirror some of our information and products etc., but they are NOT owned or operated by IAS. I just thought Id let you know.
::But the one above says International Antiaging Systems right at the top, complete with Ward Dean and James South articles. If it is not owned or operated by IAS, then how is it related and why are you letting them perpetrate a fraud?::
Phil |
| Posted By : Phil - 9/20/2001 6:45 AM | Dear Tom
I think all the information you are looking for is on our site, but it may not have the rationale that you desire. The design of our website has been to keep specific information at different areas, otherwise we would have to lump together everything at one place which would confuse most people, as well as being slow to download.
::This is simply not true. There is no need to lump everything together in order to accomplish what I have stated should be the norm of any supplement website.::
For example, whilst the A-Z section of our website (www.antiaging-systems.com) has an outline of the products uses, there is invariably a link to a text article written by a professional on its alternative uses and contains the clinical references.
Furthermore most products also indicate which Anti-Aging Bulletins contain information and articles about that product and can also be downloaded free of charge, these may contain additional information including clinical references, as well as graphs, pictures and graphics etc.
Then of course the products are also listed under APPROVED USES. This section includes the information that is on the product leaflet (or bottle if there is no leaflet). It lists the ingredients in the product as well as outlining the approved use of the product (at least from the country from which it derives).
As regards what is contained within each tablet or pack size, one simply has to look at the order form where the dosages, pack sizes etc., are all contained. Thus (for example) one can see that deprenyl is available under the brand name of Jumex as 50x 5mg tablets, or that liquid deprenyl is available under the brand name of Cyprenil as 12ml 300mg total (1mg/drop) etc.
::I do not think that it is right that one should have to go to the order form (tantamount to beginning to order) before one has the full details about the product contents and size. I cannot recommend a site that is designed this way.::
I think the fact that we list all these details on the website including:
1) A general outline of the product
2) The approved uses from the country from which it is made
3) Clinically referenced articles written by renowned professionals
4) Testimonials from professionals and clients
5) Dosages, pack sizes etc
6) Other independent information sources including books, newsletters, physicians and organizations
All this is hardly promoting the most irrational and dangerous kind of product consideration as you put it, in-fact quite the reverse as it gives the patient a wide choice, and at the end of the day we can always be asked, with an MD, Biochemist and pharmacologist (me) on hand we can invariably deliver the answers required.
::I was not making that statement wrt the sum total of the information on your website. I was making in only wrt the initial product information which is supplied, and from which many people will go no further, because they will not realize that the need to or that much more exists. Furthermore, knowledgeable users must do more work (look in several places) than they should need to before they can compare your products with similar ones on other sites.::
As you probably know it would be illegal to make medical claims about unapproved drugs. What we do instead is point out the uses to which these drugs are used in other countries (i.e. where they are approved) and how other professionals such as Ward Dean MD, Walter Pierpaoli MD, Jonathan Wright MD etc., are putting these drugs to work.
At the end of the day, we are allowing the consumer to make an informed choice. The fact that IAS has become the worlds largest single supplier of anti-aging medicines, and that we have over half a million hits on our site every month must mean that our service is very agreeable to most concerned.
::There is very little choice out there. You have much information which is beneficial. And most people are far more tolerant than I. My criticism is that a relatively small change in your website (remove the testimonials and add product contents, size, and dosage information to the initial description) would make a good website much better and would encourage the buying public to be more circumspect about what they were buying.::
I would like to know if anyone else out there has any major difficulties with the information on our site at www.antiaging-systems.com
Phil
::Please do not reply. I think we have written/read all that needs to be stated on this issue.::
|
| Posted By : Phil - 9/20/2001 7:32 AM | Dear Tom
As you know the internet is a diverse and difficult place to control.
Perhaps we should take some comfort in that, as it opens our eyes to different possibilities and treats us as adults. If we only read what governments wanted us to read the choice would be very limited indeed.
IASs information is sometimes copied and used (as I am sure LEFs is too), with and without our permission. In the past we have allowed large sections to be copied and used, and we have little control in how they are then updated.
In a similar way to the affiliate program offered by LEF, we are working with sites that have IAS information on them to link directly to the official IAS website. This should avoid confusion and also allow the surfer to be reading from an up-to-date information page.
However we are hardly allowing a fraud (as you put it) to be prepetrated. We simply allow a marketer to place some information about IAS on his site and allow orders to be taken and forwarded to IAS for the genuine product. It may be confusing or at worst misleading but as I stated we are acting to help change this situation.
Phil
::Fraud: 1) decit or trickery perpetrated for profit or to gain unfair or dishonest advantage.
2) Something that is not what it pretends to be.
IMO, it is clear that by titling its pages with International Antiaging Systems, by including IAS terms and conditions and by many other website aspects, the site http://smart-drugs.com is perpetrating a fraud (unless perhaps it *does* belong to IAS).
However, enough has been said and there are no new facts, so I am terminating this discussion. Please do not post a reply.:: |
| Posted By : Phil - 10/1/2001 5:53 AM | It is worth bearing in mind that numerous pharmaceutical and nutritional products derive from meat products of various sources (i.e. bovine, porcine etc.)
Whether we like it or not, this is a common practice and for example the majority of natural thyroids, thymus, estrogen and progesterones prescribed today are of such origins.
Even carnosine can be derived from meat products. The issue has a lot to do with the quality of the extract and source. In the case of conjunctisan, its maker- the German pharmaceutical company, VitOrgan, has an excellent record and is in-fact one of the originators of cell therapy as it was established by Dr. Dyckerdorf in the 1950s.
Phil
|
| Posted By : sbflynn1 - 10/14/2001 10:14 PM | Tom,
It looks like LEF is now offering what is the subject of this thread - Carnosine eye drops. The Nov. 2001 issue of LEF Magazine has an offering for Brite Eyes. Actually, the drops have a number of antioxidants (and substances that are in supplements that a number of forum readers ingest):
Glutathione, N-Acetyl-L-Carnosine, Cysteine Ascorbate, Riboflavin Monophosphate, and Taurine
The following URL has an abbreviated version of the two page advertisement in the magazine.
http://www.lef.org/prod_desc/item00558.html
Anyhow, would you please offer your opinion on this new product?
Thank you
::Looks great to me! A real coup for LEF.:: |
| Posted By : Chris Allen - 10/15/2001 9:49 PM | >Glutathione, N-Acetyl-L-Carnosine,
Are you sure the print ad says acetylated carnosine? No LEer has claimed to have been able to source this and the link you provided says _L-Carnosine_.
::The Ad clearly say N-acetyl-L-carnosine and contains references to the studies which used it. It also goes on to say that several of the ingredients in Brite Eyes cannot be purchased anywhere else in the world, at any price. Yes, this is a major coup for LEF to have this so early and first. As usual, I was not even aware that it was coming :-( ::
>Cysteine Ascorbate, Riboflavin Monophosphate, and Taurine
>http://www.lef.org/prod_desc/item00558.html
The first two items (GSH and NAL-Carnosine) and riboflavin monophosphate (the coenzymate form of riboflavin; converted from riboflavin but at a low rate) I imagine are helpful, but is it also helpful to put these other items directly on your eyes if you already injest cysteine, ascorbic acid, and taurine orally?
::I think that it would be, since the ability of supply from the circulation to the eye is so limited. The eye is one of the body parts which almost by nature is not going to be able to continue in homeostasis once formed, exposed, and in daily use, but will be almost necessarily slowly degenerating as time proceeds. My view is that it has more need for external aid than any other part of the body. I have ordered 4 bottles and intend to use it every day. Needing glasses is not pleasant and if there is any chance to reverse my sight loss to recover my short range vision, then I want to take it.
Here is an abstract of a review of taurine and the eye.
Neurochem Res 1999 Nov;24(11):1333-8
Taurine and its trophic effects in the retina.
Lima L.
Laboratorio de Neuroquimica, Centro de Biofisica y Bioquimica, Instituto Venezolano de Investigaciones Cientificas, Caracas. llima@cbb.ivic.ve
The sulphur amino acid taurine possesses variable functions during development and regeneration of the central nervous system. The retina synthesize and uptake taurine, which is the amino acid present in the highest concentration in this tissue. Deficiency of taurine alters the structure and the function of the cerebral and cerebellar cortex, as well as the retina. Taurine increases outgrowth of postcrush goldfish retina in culture, partially by elevating calcium influx, and also by the modulation of protein phosphorylation. Its concentration increases in the retina after the lesion of the optic nerve, and the intraocular injection of it, between the crush and the explantation, stimulates the outgrowth of neurites. Taken together, although there are a great number of unresolved questions on the mechanisms of action of this amino acid as a trophic substance, the results support the role of taurine during regeneration of the optic nerve.
Publication Types:
Review
Review, tutorial
PMID: 10555772::
-Chris |
| Posted By : Victor C. - 10/17/2001 3:15 AM | FWIW, several opticians/optometry shops have been selling brite-eyes for quite some time now around ft lauderdale so this is nothing new here.
::Thanks for the info. That shows it is not an exclusive LEF product. ::
|
| Posted By : Chris Allen - 10/17/2001 3:28 PM | >FWIW, several opticians/optometry shops have been selling brite-eyes for quite some
>time now around ft lauderdale so this is nothing new here.
>::Thanks for the info. That shows it is not an exclusive LEF product. ::
It does? Who makes the Fort-Lauderdale-optician/optometry-shop version of Brite Eyes and what are the ingredients?
-Chris |
| Posted By : Rick36 - 10/28/2001 5:51 PM | Tom:
I just received my November LEF magazine, which advertises Brite Eyes, a new eye solution that contains L-carnosine, which Babizhayev stated may be harmful (below). It also contains n-acetyl-carnosine and many other ingredients.
If L-carnosine truly does induce histamine release which is toxic to the lens, it would appear that LEF should immediately examine this matter before any of the product is shipped.
::It was not clear to me until I had the bottle with label in hand that the product contained L-carnosine in addition to N-acetyl-L-carnosine (NALC). But one should always remember the adage: the dose makes the poison. It all depends on *how much* L-carnosine is contained within the product, ie what is the concentration. Unfortunately, LEF has made a major blunder by not printing the concentrations of the various ingredients on the label of the Brite Eyes bottle, carton or paper insert and not giving full clear details in their promotional ad or their webstie product description.
N-acetyl-L-carnosine (NALC) will eventually convert to carnosine and be metabolized to histidine and beta-alanine. Only then can histamine be produced from the histidine. Note the isolated portion of the abstract below. It only states that the L-carnosine did not have effect and it also states that the NALC did slowly convert to L-carnosine after penetration.
Biochemistry (Mosc) 2000 May;65(5):588-98
The natural histidine-containing dipeptide Nalpha-acetylcarnosine as an antioxidant for ophthalmic use.
Babizhayev MA, Yermakova VN, Semiletov YA, Deyev AI.
Innovative Vision Products Inc., County of New Castle, Delaware 19810, USA.
The naturally occurring compound Nalpha-acetylcarnosine is proposed as a prodrug of L-carnosine that is resistant to enzymatic hydrolysis by carnosinase. Eyes of rabbits were treated with 1% Nalpha-acetylcarnosine, L-carnosine, or placebo and extracts of the aqueous humor from the anterior eye chamber were analyzed for imidazole content by reverse-phase analytical high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) and thin-layer (TLC) and ion-exchange chromatographic techniques.
Topical administration of pure L-carnosine to the rabbit eye did not lead to accumulation of this compound in the aqueous humor over 30 min in concentration exceeding that in the placebo-treated matched eye. Nalpha-Acetylcarnosine showed dose-dependent hydrolysis in its passage from the cornea to the aqueous humor, releasing L-carnosine after l5-30 min of ocular administration of the prodrug in a series of therapeutic modalities:
instillation < or = subconjunctival injection < or = ultrasound-induced phoresis. Different treatment techniques showed excellent toleration of 1%Nalpha-acetylcarnosine by the eye. Once in the aqueous humor, L-carnosine might act as an antioxidant and enter the lens tissue when present at effective concentrations (5-l5 mM). The advantage of the ophthalmic prodrug Nalpha-acetylcarnosine and its bioactivated principle L-carnosine as universal antioxidants relates to their ability to give efficient protection against oxidative stress both in the lipid phase of biological membranes and in aqueous environments. Nalpha-Acetylcarnosine is proposed for treatment of ocular disorders that have a component of oxidative stress in their genesis (cataracts, glaucoma, retinal degeneration, corneal disorders, ocular inflammation, complications of diabetes mellitus, and systemic diseases).
PMID: 10851037
Besides, 5% carnosine (not NALC) eyedrops have already been approved for use in Russia for some years.
Vestn Oftalmol 1997 Nov-Dec;113(6):27-31
Development of carnosine eyedrops and assessing their efficacy in corneal diseases.
(Article in Russian)
Maichuk IF, Formaziuk VE, Sergienko VI.
Stable eye drops of 5% carnosine have been developed. Trials of the drug on mice, rats, rabbits, and dogs showed it to be well tolerated at both total and local levels. In animals the eye drops did not affect the diameter of the pupil, nor did they increase the intraocular pressure. Clinical trials were carried out in 109 patients. Carnosine eye drops exerted a good therapeutic effect in corneal erosion, trophic keratitis, postherpetic epitheliopathy, primary and secondary corneal dystrophy, and bullous keratopathy. Used in combined treatment, the eye drops accelerated healing of corneal ulcers in herpesvirus and bacterial infection or dry keratoconjunctivitis. The Pharmacological Committee of the Ministry of Health and Medical Industry of the Russian Federation permitted 5% carnosine eye drops for medical use.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
PMID: 9483997
I would certainly be happier if the product contained no L-carnosine, but I plan to continue taking it, at least for a while until I see if it helps improve my age reduced eyesight (I have no concern about any other eye problems because I am well protected through diet).::
I realize you dont represent LEF management, so Im going to copy and forward this message to the most senior person I can find at LEF.
::Good. Please make sure to post their reply here.::
Rick
>DO NOT use L-carnosine as an eye-drop!
>
>I have been in personal communication with Dr. Mark Babizhayev, who
>is one of the principal Russian researchers behind the clinical
>trials with NAC eye-drops and he gave me this reply:
>
>
>I believe that the application of L-carnosine for the treatment of
>human cataracts is misleading. This is because L-carnosine readily becomes
>a substrate for the activity of natural peptidases (i.e. carnosinase)
>in the aqueous humor. So much so, that there is
>no sign of L-carnosine in the aqueous humor within 15
>minutes after instillation. Furthermore, I consider that L-carnosine eye-drops may
>even be harmful for eyes because it gradually releases histamine,
>which, located as it would be in the presence of
>the eye-lens is a very toxic agent. However, NAC eye-drops
>are resistant to hydrolysis with natural carnosinase. Therefore, NAC is
>the only currently known agent which reverses and prevents
>human cataracts.
>
>The clinical trials have indicated that ONLY N-acetylcarnosine (NAC) is active,
>furthermore normal synthesis of NAC produces relatively high levels of
>heavy metals and animal trials have NOT been efficacous with
>such types of NAC. The NAC used in the trials
>has been specially developed by the Japanese who have a
>proprietary method of production (that produces a very pure NAC).
>I fear that anyone not using the original type of
>NAC eye-drops (as used in the trials) will either be
>wasting their money or worse still damaging their eyes.
>
>Ive been working on an article about NAC eye-drops for publication
>in the Winter 2001 issue of the IAS Anti-Aging Bulletin.
>I expect that NAC eye-drops will become available for personal
>import late this year.
>
>Lastly, it is very interesting to note that NAC is very
>resistant to carnosinase breakdown.
>
>I hope this is of interest to someone
>
>Phil
>Phil Micans PharmB
>Vice President, IAS Group
>
>::Yes, this is very valuable. Thanks very much for your input.
>But I wish you would not call N-acetyl carnosine NAC,
>since N-acetylcysteine got first dibs on the use of that
>acryonym.
>
>Which of your products contains N-acetylcarnosine? And what does CONJUNCTISAN A
>contain? Will you please start placing the full product ingredient
>contents on your website! When I see a product without
>ingregient contents, I always advise people to not buy it!
>One should never buy a pig in a poke.
>
>Finally, what is the difference between CONJUNCTISAN A and CONJUNCTISAN B,
>especially with respect to ingredient contents? ::
|
| Posted By : MSFE - 11/28/2001 11:11 PM | Way off-topic, but I have been looking for a way to deliver carnosine topically for hair-loss-prevention, hair-growth. Any ideas on whether Brite Eyes would deliver it?
::Likely yes, but expensively because of the volume involved.:: |
| Posted By : nextofkin - 5/16/2005 6:02 PM | try this site www.next-of-kin.net This was tested with fantastic results on richard and judy tv show with 3 people with cataracts with brilliant results.
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